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Talent & Radio Today

The first time I heard talent taking on a less-pronounced role would have been in the early 90’s in South Florida. A Cox station I’ve mentioned on occasion, WFLC, back then was a 70’s/80’s mix kind of station. When they launched, they promoted themselves as the station that never talks over the music – ever (or words to that effect.) The talk-up was on its way out.

I was always a boss-jock fan and I was all into personality radio because that’s all I knew. Maybe it was the music itself that called for a different approach. "The Coast" then was an adult hit music kind of station featuring Peter Frampton, John Mellencamp, Chicago, Elton John etc. To this listener, it sounded good. As I recall for a long time the station became killer in the ratings.

My other listening was oldies (WMXJ – Miami’s Magic) and the talks up and the personality-oriented sound seemed more a natural to that kind of music as back then almost everything was 50’s and early to mid 60’s. For a long time I believed active participation of the talent depended more on format.than anything else. Jazz formats were even more unique in I noticed the broadcasters would often go into long rap about an artist they were about to play or just played but they would never talk over the music.

Today, as we see the state of radio and how lots of talent is becoming an endangered species, an important question to be asked is does more music/less talk reflect public opinion or has this been an on-going, calculated business model to ensure profitability for an uncertain future? Or, is there is there some middle ground between total automation and a full roster of jocks?

Markets change and the public’s tastes change. This week, The Greaseman was added to the ever-growing displaced list. I never understood his humor but then I didn’t grow up here. It almost reflects 2 Jacksonville’s – one with resident longevity and the other not so much. It’s just my hunch but I would suspect those who dug the Greaseman were the ones who heard him on the APE way back when. Newcomers perhaps just didn’t get it. With the trend toward more music, I’m afraid Greaseman was just another victim of the changing times and not a reflection of his talents.

Today’s on air talent and those displaced with longevity bring something valuable to the table and that’s knowledge of the market. A diminished role in one area should give rise to participation elsewhere. I guess it all comes down to how you regard talent – an asset or a big expense that should just be eliminated.
 
Wow Johnjax again you couldn't be more brief and perfectly precise. I've talked about this issue in other forum's and you've summed up what I'm trying to convey.

I'm disappointed with what I hear on radio now-a-days, and no secret I have the tendency to bash certain stations from time to time in whereas my thoughts are they can do so much better, stations seem to muddy up the waters grasping for those far reaching numbers
and add dollars so I'd render a thought that's what today's radio dictates. However, stations management's have all but taken away total control by their on-air talents with the advents, as you've pointed out, new automation's, voice tracking and the list go's on.

Boss-Jock type radio would it work now-a-day's? Way back when, boss-jock days came with a lot of hype and the stations on-air talents were in control, they caught your attention with their enthusiasm, zany promotions and contest give-a-ways, they always seemed to have something going on all the time, it wasn't just one station it was all of em who had similar formats all competing all in fun and our single job was to entertain the listener
and sooo we did. Today's radio listener's have been side-lined, post paper rating systems and not so long ago the listener somewhat could dictate what he or she wanted to hear on their favorite station, and the station's listened. Radio's attitude today comes across as if you don't like how we operate or what we play, listen elsewhere. Enter my frustration, stations are missing the point, the old adage you gotta spend money to make money, I'm assured this will not happen anytime soon I'm afraid.
 
JohnJax said:
Today’s on air talent and those displaced with longevity bring something valuable to the table and that’s knowledge of the market.

Not really. As being a DJ became more of a profession in the 60s, talent moved from market to market. So they didn't really know much about the market where they worked. They brought knowledge of their act. You mention The Greaseman, and he came to Jacksonville originally from New York state, where he went to college and worked in a number of markets up there before getting the big break in Jacksonville. After 7 years, he moved to DC. Once again, no knowledge of the DC market, and he replaced Howard Stern. Howard also had no knowledge of the DC market when he came in. He was also a New Yorker who got a big break doing morning drive in DC. So talent was more about opportunity than it was about knowledge. The payola scandals caused major market talent to be removed from decision-making roles. So even if talent was home grown, they weren't in a position to use their market knowledge, except in pronouncing the names of streets and neighborhoods.

As to your last point, it depends on the format. I think you're right, and they were betting on Greaseman's earlier popularity would lead to a return of past success. But he'd been gone too long. What we're seing in market after market is that the only talent that has success in attracting an audience are the ones who've been in the market a long time and built up trust and relationship. It's hard to start from scratch and do it again. That was a problem 25 years ago too. It took The Greaseman a long time to win over the people of DC. He was different than Howard, plus Howard was available in the market via syndication. But he did it after a lot of hard work, personal appearances (which he hated doing), and time. Today, you don't have the luxury of time, and music listeners want to hear music, not a talk show. So personality DJs are becoming talk show hosts, like Imus and Stern. The airtime it would take to build the personality would alienate the music audience, and that's counterproductive. So it's not really a function of the expense, but the fact that that kind of radio isn't as valued by younger listeners as it once was.
 
Stormychuck said:
Boss-Jock type radio would it work now-a-day's? Way back when, boss-jock days came with a lot of hype and the stations on-air talents were in control,

The talents were NOT in control at real Boss Jock stations. They worked for tough PDs who set the pace, whether in NY, LA, Chicago, or Miami. In LA, they were told how long to talk (10 seconds was the average), what to say, and what to play.

But keep in mind that when Boss Jock was popular, there was no other youth oriented media, except American Bandstand on Saturday. So Boss Jock filled a void. There is no void today, and that kind of radio really is an anachronism.
 
If boards like this existed in the 60s, there would have been thread after thread blasting Bill Drake for killing personality radio (he took away their cowbells!). CKLW had a producer who double-rolled every element to minimize mistakes..
 
I need to jump in here so we don’t go too far adrift on boss jocks. Thanks Gr8 Oldies for reminding me of the connection to Bill Drake. My use of the term just came to mind as I wrote about the past. Where I grew up, I’m on record for preferring what Drake’s major competitor was doing. But that’s another discussion and honestly, it’s water under the bridge.

Big A, I understand exactly what you are saying and I agree with a good deal of your points. However, I’m not talking about jocks who moved from city to city in the past. I’m talking about longevity today in the market and the knowledge and insights that come from that experience.

You said - “What we're seing in market after market is that the only talent that has success in attracting an audience are the ones who've been in the market a long time and built up trust and relationship. It's hard to start from scratch and do it again.”

Bingo! From a pure economic and even competitive standpoint, I never understood the widespread practice of (frequently) dismissing the person in the building with the proven track record and capability, especially as it regards to programming.

I’d be curious to know your thoughts on this. I believe every community, even despite people moving in and out, has something unique about it. I’ve never subscribed to the one size fits all mentality to programming where some guy hundreds or thousands of miles away decides what songs people like no matter where they live. I can understand basic core lists but I would want input from proven talent who has worked in the trenches and knows the market for those one-off situations that I believe do have some value.

Chuck, you have no idea how hard it is for me to be brief and concise but I’m trying buddy, I’m trying. LOL
 
JohnJax said:
I never understood the widespread practice of (frequently) dismissing the person in the building with the proven track record and capability, especially as it regards to programming.

At some point, the DJ ages well beyond the target demo of the station. So while he maintains his traditional audience, it gets older and older. Sooner or later, advertisers aren't interested any more.

JohnJax said:
I believe every community, even despite people moving in and out, has something unique about it. I’ve never subscribed to the one size fits all mentality to programming where some guy hundreds or thousands of miles away decides what songs people like no matter where they live.

I don't know about that...the majority of the music we enjoy was written and produced hundreds, even thousands of miles away. Yet we all identify with it.

I don't think any programmer decides what songs people like. The people decide what they like, and the programmer recognizes it, either through research or reaction. You can't force people to like music they don't like. They have too many choices. But you can study what they like and don't like, and come up with some pretty accurate decisions. Remember that most things we enjoy, whether it's TV, music, food, clothes, culture, news, or cars, are for the most part national. Sure there's that one local pizzaria, but pizza itself isn't local. Sports teams are local, but sports in general are not. Some individual sports like golf and tennis, aren't local at all. So we in radio put way more emphasis on local than other media do.

If you look back to hits from 50 years ago, there may have been a handful of songs unique to a particular geography. But just because Lynyrd Skynyrd came from Jacksonville doesn't mean it's where they're most popular. The way we as Americans view songs as hits are those that were recognized as being most-played in all parts of the country, not just one area. There are a few exceptions, but it's pretty much spot on across the hostory of music. Touring has a lot to do about that. So does TV and other media. The Beatles came to the US in 1964, and immediately were national sensations. Not just in New York. TV is what did it.

If the goal is to individualize radio, there are ways to do that now, just not on the main channel. But typically, even with individualized services, we see the same songs popping up across the country. A hit is a hit, regardless of geography. Alan Jackson put out a song about a river in Georgia, and it became the biggest hit of his career. Even though most people have no idea what the Chattahoochee is.

By the same token, every city, regardless of size, has at least two or three radio stations that have local talent on them, targeting that unique local stuff. But at the same time, with dozens of radio stations, there need to be some to counter-program. That's where we are now. To have all stations in a market with a person who remembers that one hit that was only big in Jacksonville is a pretty format-specific situation. Not worth having a person on staff full time at every station just because he has a connection to the past. You have non-profit historical societies to do that.
 
We are now a more nationalized society than ever. Its easy to share that great song you found with friends and family hundreds of miles away. We don't live in culturally isolated enclaves.
 
I just moved to a mid south city and am amazed at how many transplants and how few natives I have met. Lots of folks have no memory of local pop culture or what, if any regional hits there may have been. No memory of great DJs from the past. I can detect a touch more Charlie Daniels and Marshall Tucker on the classic rocker, but not much else.
 
TheBigA said:
By the same token, every city, regardless of size, has at least two or three radio stations that have local talent on them, targeting that unique local stuff. But at the same time, with dozens of radio stations, there need to be some to counter-program. That's where we are now. To have all stations in a market with a person who remembers that one hit that was only big in Jacksonville is a pretty format-specific situation. Not worth having a person on staff full time at every station just because he has a connection to the past. You have non-profit historical societies to do that.

Let's put music input from talent aside for just a moment. My words did not explain what I really wanted to say so I can appreciate the responses. You bring up Lynyrd Skynyrd, that band in particular got me thinking about a lot of things but I'll circle back to all that later.

Back to the talent's role. Jacksonville still has a good number of local, morning shows. It's interesting you used the words "counter programming." I will take that to mean those that are syndicated, automated or a combo of both and that's what we do have.

Probably Jax is not unique in this regard but morning drive is changing big time. That daypart seemed to be the last part of the day where information was provided and local/world events were discussed in an entertaining way. If I'm understanding what you are saying, there is still a role for local talent but not every station needs to offer that.

It all goes back to the original question I asked and that is does radio really reflect what listeners want or what owners are willing to provide and where do those who make radio as a livelihood fit in?

Business always has to reinvent itself. Those who post on these boards are people who either are in radio or were in radio. There's also a number of pure radio fans like me in the mix too. Our views are no doubt slanted in that we see talent continuing to have a role, even if dininished, and turning lots of stations into automated jukeboxes may not be the right answer. I'm trying to keep an open mind so I'll consider what is being said but I do believe some formats never really reach their true potential if Mr. Roboto is the only star. Later....
 
JohnJax said:
It all goes back to the original question I asked and that is does radio really reflect what listeners want or what owners are willing to provide and where do those who make radio as a livelihood fit in?

The great air talents in radio have nearly all been either comedians--or, at the very least, funny people--and/or people who have been able to reflect the interests of their listeners--what the consultants call relateability. The comedians (Grease, Stern, Jay Thomas, Lujack, Gary Burbank... Lex & Terry, Bob & Tom, et cetera) create a "show" within station programming, while the relateability specialists create a sense of companionship. Smart broadcasters recognize that these skills are as valuable today as ever in differentiating stations--in providing something beyond music to keep listeners hooked. Music is--and always has been--to easy for competitors to copy or counter.
 
JohnJax said:
It all goes back to the original question I asked and that is does radio really reflect what listeners want or what owners are willing to provide and where do those who make radio as a livelihood fit in?

Depends on the station, the owner, and the listener. Everybody is different. Some listeners want less talk, more music. Some are looking for more in terms of presentation. But you can't generalize. It depends on the format too. As for owners, it's popular to criticize owners for being cheap, but the biggest ones pay the biggest salaries to talent. That's a fact. You're not going to get a 6 figure salary working for a mom & pop, and there are a lot of talent who make that kind of money now.

As for people looking to make radio a livelihood, I'd suggest that the job has changed a lot. If you're looking for a job with benefits, and you want to spend all your time in the studio, just back and front announcing songs, you're probably not going to find much. If, on the other hand, you're willing to be more creative in how you're paid, in what you do, and how you do it, you will get some attention. Stations are looking for talent that understands how to combine on-air and online, that knows how to go out and do public appearances, and interact with listeners & sponsors.
 
Pretty much spot-on Big A, and RNR has nailed the right word that has been alluding us on these boards --- COMPANIONSHIP. Tie the two posts of you guys together and you get a potential winning formula. Perhaps in the White House, days of the "great communicators" seem to be over, but I believe there is still tons of potential and opportunity for that unique warm approach, which can be inviting and funny at the same time in radio. Also, again, Big A agree, but in a few cases, like Nashville, you're top stations are in a sense 'mom and pop' compared to the huge companies (South Central vs. Clear Channel, and if they knew anything about radio Crackuluss) and live & local in the morning until 7P. Paying for that local talent ain't exactly cheap, but considering the return they provide, still quite a bargain. Meanwhile, some of the humor-based national acts just don't motivate listeners or ratings here. Could be burnout of years of overplay, but I contend a point or two is OFTEN (not always) lost by the lack of local. (Unless you just can't "get" a local act to click and that is often obviously tricky.) Nashville is rare market with these variables, admittedly. But, a market worth studying.
 
I suppose one could split hair's with words like, control or Creativity, yes there was a strict set of standards that you had to adhere to while on-air, you followed the format, push the call's say what little diddys one needed to say referencing the station, but the on-air talent said it his way, inflected his personality thus loosely, my bad, using words to the effect, control or creativity. On the other hand I was fortunate enough to work both in Miami, my hometown, and in Los Angeles in the early to mid-70's so I'll plead ignorance to any 10 second talk rule, if there was such a thing I'm unaware of that rule. Perhaps in, like you said Chicago or New york, that was the norm.

Meanwhile, it's seems some of us have gotten away from what Johnjax is trying to accomplish in a meaningful way, Air talent and radio today. Great on-air radio talent, funny guy's or gals', I love women in radio by the way, that give radio stations their own identity their few and far in between. I can't comment on Jacksonville radio I'm out of the listening area. However, if it's anything like Orlando radio there all owned by the same corporations the big 3-"C"'s all doing the same thing on-air day in day out, they've taken away the on-air talents ability to be, ok, now we can use the word, creative.

One doe's not have to be funny to be on radio, my preference simple sound good, follow the stations format rules utilize your personality and make it your own, isn't that why you were hired in the first place? Now a-day's I'm afraid not. Several stations come to mind, you've got the guy on the air, who's been restricted to just a couple of intro talk-overs, or stop sets per hour the rest of the sets are handled by out-sourced drop-in's 6 or 7 times an hour 6 or 7 seconds a piece stopping the music to tell me, the listener, they're playing more music. That's by far an interesting radio programming concept.

I often wonder if the radio listener actually hears all this, what I consider on-air programming non-sense and it's not limited to just one single radio station, these programming concepts are the norm. All of us have received as on-air personalities at one time or another the stations SOP'S the do's and don't's, every stations had them, one comes to mind, one rule that you will adhere to while on air
DO NOT Bulls..t talk down to, insult, or otherwise piss-off the listener's, so in short maybe some of these stations should follow their own Standard Operating Procedures and quit talking down to the listener's with silly programming techniques and let the on-air talent be creative and give the station the well deserved unique individual sound that makes radio great.....
 
Mr. Tibbs offer's up some good points, I'd love to see more Mom and Pop operations but in this dog eat dog radio world their quickly falling by the wayside.
 
Stormychuck said:
I was fortunate enough to work both in Miami, my hometown, and in Los Angeles in the early to mid-70's so I'll plead ignorance to any 10 second talk rule, if there was such a thing I'm unaware of that rule. Perhaps in, like you said Chicago or New york, that was the norm.

There are examples of Bill Drake's memos at a Boss Radio fan site that include the 10 second rule. I think it's www.bossradioforever.com

Rick Sklar's book, "Rockin' America" is also filled with his rules.
 
I'm sorry Big A...your post took more than ten seconds for me to read, so I was cut off by the PPM and never got to get to your point or link...
 
BigA will plead the fifth. It's his right. I think he's been in some pretty serious wars and has come through. I enjoy reading what he says because he speaks from logic and generally tells it "the way it is" vs. emotion, which I often admit to placing in here. If we all spoke that from his perspective, we'd have a lot less to talk about, but things would be pretty clear. Whether he can be "fixed" is another subject. :)

Hope I did ok there, BigA. Tell me to shut up anytime. (He will.)
 
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