Talk radio in Philly

[radiophile]

Insideradio.com reports Clear Channel is considering an FM talk station in "one top ten market." Could it be Philly?

A just for fun scenario: CC flips Sunny to talk, builds a traditional talker around Beck and Rush which move from 1210.
1210 clears O'Reilly live noon-2, moves Dom to 9-noon, clears Jay Severin in the early evening after Hannity.
To round out its schedule, 104.5 also airs a local morning show, Ed Schultz in afternoon drive and Phil Hendrie in late evening. That leaves an evening gap ... maybe an up and coming young, local talk host?
Mornings on 104.5: Wally Kennedy or Steve Highsmith.

I don't think YSP is going talk.

Discuss.

 

[crisisbroadcast]

> Insideradio.com reports Clear Channel is considering an FM
> talk station in "one top ten market." Could it be Philly?
>
> A just for fun scenario: CC flips Sunny to talk, builds a
> traditional talker around Beck and Rush which move from
> 1210.
> 1210 clears O'Reilly live noon-2, moves Dom to 9-noon,
> clears Jay Severin in the early evening after Hannity.
> To round out its schedule, 104.5 also airs a local morning
> show, Ed Schultz in afternoon drive and Phil Hendrie in late
> evening. That leaves an evening gap ... maybe an up and
> coming young, local talk host?
> Mornings on 104.5: Wally Kennedy or Steve Highsmith.
>
> I don't think YSP is going talk.
>
> Discuss.

1210 is Beck's flagship, so I don't see him jumping ship from there anytime soon. If the rumors are true about Hannity's time slot though, I could see him moving.

And honestly, I don't see 'PHT sitting back and giving up Rush.

The Air America factor also can't be ignored. They're claiming to have been or to be in talks with a new Philly outlet. I doubt to see AA on 104.5 though as well.

And in all honesty, I don't think it's Philly that CC is looking at. Perhaps Boston or Chicago? But if it is Philly, Sunny is way too cheap to run to switch to talk (especially if you were going to be heavy on the local hosts); maybe Q would be the one to go?
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[eGillCVI]

I would think Q would be the one to go since it's the most expensive to operate.

Where does Sunny broadcast from nowadays? Surely, they're not utilizing that huge studio they had in the Star 104.5 days. If they do still have that studio, it is perfect for a talk format. It looked to me like it was built for a talk station even though they were using it for "Between the Sheets." Anyway, the point is this: if CC still has that studio, they at least have the facility to do talk in Philly.

I would be surprised, however, to see CC do a conservative-leaning talk format in Philly. We already have one anyway.

Regardless, if a CC hasn't flipped to talk by the second week in January, I think WYSP is gonna beat them to the punch.

BTW, this discussion is already well under way and <a href="http://www.radio-info.com/mods/board?Post=566358&Board=philadelphia">the discussion starts here</a href>.



> > Insideradio.com reports Clear Channel is considering an FM
>
> > talk station in "one top ten market." Could it be Philly?
> >
> > A just for fun scenario: CC flips Sunny to talk, builds a
> > traditional talker around Beck and Rush which move from
> > 1210.
> > 1210 clears O'Reilly live noon-2, moves Dom to 9-noon,
> > clears Jay Severin in the early evening after Hannity.
> > To round out its schedule, 104.5 also airs a local morning
>
> > show, Ed Schultz in afternoon drive and Phil Hendrie in
> late
> > evening. That leaves an evening gap ... maybe an up and
> > coming young, local talk host?
> > Mornings on 104.5: Wally Kennedy or Steve Highsmith.
> >
> > I don't think YSP is going talk.
> >
> > Discuss.
>
> 1210 is Beck's flagship, so I don't see him jumping ship
> from there anytime soon. If the rumors are true about
> Hannity's time slot though, I could see him moving.
>
> And honestly, I don't see 'PHT sitting back and giving up
> Rush.
>
> The Air America factor also can't be ignored. They're
> claiming to have been or to be in talks with a new Philly
> outlet. I doubt to see AA on 104.5 though as well.
>
> And in all honesty, I don't think it's Philly that CC is
> looking at. Perhaps Boston or Chicago? But if it is
> Philly, Sunny is way too cheap to run to switch to talk
> (especially if you were going to be heavy on the local
> hosts); maybe Q would be the one to go?
>

 

[radiophile]

> 1210 is Beck's flagship, so I don't see him jumping ship
> from there anytime soon. If the rumors are true about
> Hannity's time slot though, I could see him moving.
>
> And honestly, I don't see 'PHT sitting back and giving up
> Rush.
>
Well, since CC owns Beck and Rush's programs through its Premiere syndication branch, I'm not sure 'PHT has anything to say about it. I'm basing my thoughts on the fact that KDKA in Pittsburgh had Rush, and CC pulled the program away to its new FM talker in Pittsburgh. There is precedent for this.

> The Air America factor also can't be ignored. They're
> claiming to have been or to be in talks with a new Philly
> outlet. I doubt to see AA on 104.5 though as well.
>
I don't see CC putting progressive talk 24/7 on a 50kw FM in a Top 10 market anytime soon. On a 1kw AM, sure. But maybe they'd mix and match progressive and conservative talk on an FM. Springer, Rush and Schultz.

> And in all honesty, I don't think it's Philly that CC is
> looking at. Perhaps Boston or Chicago? But if it is
> Philly, Sunny is way too cheap to run to switch to talk
> (especially if you were going to be heavy on the local
> hosts); maybe Q would be the one to go?
>
But there are FM talkers in Boston and Chicago already. Boston's is more traditional talk, Chicago's is more hot talk. I don't think it's NYC, LA or SF because those markets have plenty of successful talk stations. Philadelphia has PHT, 990 which isn't really making too many waves in the ratings, sports talk stations, an all-newser.

 

[bierkenstock]

Wake up. 1210 is not Beck's "flagship." By the same logic WJNO would be Rush's "flagship," since he lives in West Palm Beach and they carry his show there.
Beck has nothing to do with 1210. He has his own studio. Premiere Radio distributes his show and WPHT is one of their client stations. Subject to the terms of their contract, Premiere can pull the show from PHT and put it on one of their own stations. Beck has no say and PHT has little.

If CC wants to put talk on FM in Philly, Sunny is the most likely choice. Sunny's "cheapness" is a non-issue. Clear Channel makes these decisions and Clear Channel sets station operating budgets.

 

[crisisbroadcast]

> Well, since CC owns Beck and Rush's programs through its
> Premiere syndication branch, I'm not sure 'PHT has anything
> to say about it. I'm basing my thoughts on the fact that
> KDKA in Pittsburgh had Rush, and CC pulled the program away
> to its new FM talker in Pittsburgh. There is precedent for
> this.

Good points. I guess then it would depend on whatever contractual agreements there may be in place.

> I don't see CC putting progressive talk 24/7 on a 50kw FM in
> a Top 10 market anytime soon. On a 1kw AM, sure. But maybe
> they'd mix and match progressive and conservative talk on an
> FM. Springer, Rush and Schultz.

Doesn't AA have a sort of non-compete clause for its affiliates that they can't also run programming that goes against their core philosophies (i.e., Rush or Hannity)? I thought I had read that somewhere as being one of the causes of AA programming not being heard on any traditional talkers and not being shuffled into line-ups alongside the likes of Rush. I'm trying to find that info, but I cannot, so I may be absolutely wrong.

> But there are FM talkers in Boston and Chicago already.
> Boston's is more traditional talk, Chicago's is more hot
> talk. I don't think it's NYC, LA or SF because those markets
> have plenty of successful talk stations. Philadelphia has
> PHT, 990 which isn't really making too many waves in the
> ratings, sports talk stations, an all-newser.

I can see your point, but I really can't see CC flipping anything in its Philly cluster, except maybe Q.<P ID="signature">______________
FPXMedia: TV, Radio, and Anything Else
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[crisisbroadcast]

> Wake up. 1210 is not Beck's "flagship." By the same logic
> WJNO would be Rush's "flagship," since he lives in West Palm
> Beach and they carry his show there.
> Beck has nothing to do with 1210. He has his own studio.
> Premiere Radio distributes his show and WPHT is one of their
> client stations. Subject to the terms of their contract,
> Premiere can pull the show from PHT and put it on one of
> their own stations. Beck has no say and PHT has little.
>
> If CC wants to put talk on FM in Philly, Sunny is the most
> likely choice. Sunny's "cheapness" is a non-issue. Clear
> Channel makes these decisions and Clear Channel sets station
> operating budgets.

Geez, you really didn't have to be so hostile.

From a CNN article in 2003 about Beck's series of pro-America rallies (you can link to the article by clicking here):

But Amir Forester, a spokeswoman for Clear Channel subsidiary Premiere Radio Networks, which syndicates Beck, said "there is no hidden agenda here."

"This is the pure creation of the media. It's amazing to me, the effort that is going into taking something so good that Glenn Beck is doing for and with his listeners in support of our American troops," she said.

She pointed out that not all of the rallies are organized by Clear Channel stations. For example, a recent rally outside Philadelphia was sponsored by WPHT-AM, Beck's flagship station, owned by rival Infinity Broadcasting.

(WPHT also refers to itself as Beck's flagship in his bio on their website.)

So it would seem that even Premier considers 1210 to be the flagship for Beck. So, with all due respect, "wake up."

As I said in another post in this thread, it would all depend on what Premier's contract with WPHT allows, so in that you are correct.

As for Sunny, the bottom line is what matters: a decently performing station that costs next to nothing. Why flip that?<P ID="signature">______________
FPXMedia: TV, Radio, and Anything Else
Be Mused...</P>

 

[eGillCVI]

> As for Sunny, the bottom line is what matters: a decently
> performing station that costs next to nothing. Why flip
> that?

Word! To say that it doesn't matter that Sunny can make more money than Q102 or any other Philly CC property (by being run cheaper and reaching a more desirable audience) is complete nonsense.

I'm not saying CC will never put a talk format on 104.5. I'm saying it'd make a hell of a lot more sense to put it on 102.1 since 102.1 makes Clear Channel less money than 104.5 does. It's just good business (combined with extremely simple math!)

 

[HomerJay]

> I would think Q would be the one to go since it's the most
> expensive to operate.
>
> Where does Sunny broadcast from nowadays? Surely, they're
> not utilizing that huge studio they had in the Star 104.5
> days. If they do still have that studio, it is perfect for
> a talk format. It looked to me like it was built for a talk
> station even though they were using it for "Between the
> Sheets." Anyway, the point is this: if CC still has
> that studio, they at least have the facility to do talk in
> Philly.
>
> I would be surprised, however, to see CC do a
> conservative-leaning talk format in Philly. We already have
> one anyway.
>
> Regardless, if a CC hasn't flipped to talk by the second
> week in January, I think WYSP is gonna beat them to the
> punch.
>
I thought--and could be just imagining things--that they had vacated the larger studio space and "downsized" if you will.

 

[Slinky]

> I'm not saying CC will never put a talk format on 104.5.
> I'm saying it'd make a hell of a lot more sense to put it on
> 102.1 since 102.1 makes Clear Channel less money than 104.5
> does. It's just good business (combined with extremely
> simple math!)

But Q is doing fine too, and if Wired continues to fail, Q may find themselves with no competition in the CHR arena.

What makes the most sense for CC/Philly right now is to preserve the status quo.

I don't think we'll see talk from CC unless 1 of 2 things happens:

1) Q starts to tank the way Wired did this book.
2) Sunny doesn't get its Christmas boost this year.

 

[radiophile]

But maybe
>
> > they'd mix and match progressive and conservative talk on
> an
> > FM. Springer, Rush and Schultz.
>
> Doesn't AA have a sort of non-compete clause for its
> affiliates that they can't also run programming that goes
> against their core philosophies (i.e., Rush or Hannity)? I
> thought I had read that somewhere as being one of the causes
> of AA programming not being heard on any traditional talkers
> and not being shuffled into line-ups alongside the likes of
> Rush. I'm trying to find that info, but I cannot, so I may
> be absolutely wrong.
>
I guess Springer would be considered AA since they syndicate him. But Schultz is syndicated through Jones Network. Rush and Schultz are both on WSYR in Syracuse. That's interesting about AA having that clause. Frankly, as much as I like the idea of progressive talk radio, I think that's another way AA may be shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[John1]

WJNO, WPB, Florida, the former local home station of Randi Rhodes, has her show still on after Limbaugh & Beck.

> > Doesn't AA have a sort of non-compete clause for its
> > affiliates that they can't also run programming that goes
> > against their core philosophies (i.e., Rush or Hannity)?
> I
> > thought I had read that somewhere as being one of the
> causes
> > of AA programming not being heard on any traditional
> talkers
> > and not being shuffled into line-ups alongside the likes
> of
> > Rush. I'm trying to find that info, but I cannot, so I
> may
> > be absolutely wrong.
> >
> I guess Springer would be considered AA since they syndicate
> him. But Schultz is syndicated through Jones Network. Rush
> and Schultz are both on WSYR in Syracuse. That's interesting
> about AA having that clause. Frankly, as much as I like the
> idea of progressive talk radio, I think that's another way
> AA may be shooting themselves in the foot.
>

 

[eGillCVI]

I would suspect you're right, considering that the station is run by a computer and a high-speed Internet hookup!

> I thought--and could be just imagining things--that they had
> vacated the larger studio space and "downsized" if you will.

 

[eGillCVI]

I can see the validity in that. But if Wired had never happened and Clear Channel still had to pick a station to put down, I'd still say Q102 is the prime candidate. Regardless, if Clear Channel waits to see how Sunny performs in the winter before making a move towards Talk, they may well miss their chance.

> But Q is doing fine too, and if Wired continues to fail, Q
> may find themselves with no competition in the CHR arena.
>
> What makes the most sense for CC/Philly right now is to
> preserve the status quo.
>
> I don't think we'll see talk from CC unless 1 of 2 things
> happens:
>
> 1) Q starts to tank the way Wired did this book.
> 2) Sunny doesn't get its Christmas boost this year.
>

 

[bierkenstock]

Sorry, I could have chosen my words better. But I still say that because the word "flagship" is over-used and abused by some PR flacks does not make it so.

The original meaning of "flagship" is the ship in a fleet or task force which carries the Admiral in command (and therefore flies the Admiral's flag). In broadcast usage, it refers to a station that produces and distributes a broadcast to other stations. Originally, the major networks were adjuncts to New York stations; they just relayed programs from NYC stations to stations in other cities. Then the situation reversed and the network produced programs for local stations but in New York, local and network programs were still produced in the same facilities by the same people. The New York stations called themselves "flagships" and they were. It's only more recently that network and station operations became separate, under different corporate divisions, often physically separate operations, and the "flagships" became just like any other affiliate (except the corporate suits were close by listening or watching). Ironically, the guy who separated the network from their O&O stations was former WCAU and WCAU-TV general manager - later CBS President - Jack Schneider. The reason (depicted in the movie Network) was he wanted to get local news away from the CBS News Division so he could put more infotainment and sensationalism in the newscasts, use more attractive on-air people (regardless of their journalistic qualifications) and - most important - put more spots in the newscasts.

WPHT is the flagship for the Phillies network.

Glenn Beck used to have WFLA, Tampa as his flagship. He did a local show which did well and was put into syndicated. He continued to produce the show at WFLA and feed it from there. Then he decided to move to Philly for personal reasons. He used WPHT's facilities briefly while his own were being set up. Beyond that, WPHT has no connection with the show beyond that of an affiliate. Likewise, it is my understanding that Rollye James' program is an independent production in syndication, part of which is carried by WPHT.

Rush Limbaugh's national program once originated at WABC, New York (Hannity's still does). They were his flagship. Now he has his own studio and uplink in West Palm Beach, although occasionally uses WABC to do his show from New York. WABC has more basis for calling themselves a flagship than WPHT.

I don't know that Clear Channel would flip Sunny to FM talk or anything else. But that's where I'd put my money. The station's audience numbers have been lukewarm. I can't speak about their sales revenue. But Sunny has been mentioned as a candidate for flipping. CC excels at operating stations for "next to nothing." If CC Corporate believes they can improve Beck's and Rush's audience demos and thereby his national sales revenues on FM, that could be reason enough to flip a station with OK (or "decent") numbers.

Infinity has already said it will put Jay Severin on WPHT (time slot not yet announced). So, somebody gets bumped. Beck's performance of late has been the poorest of late, so he is the logical choice to go. Some stations in other markets have dropped the show. Infinity is making a more aggressive move into talk radio syndication and that makes CC and Infinity competitors in that arena. CC could pull Beck (or Rush); or Infinity could dump them for their own product.

 

[mattkoons]

> Insideradio.com reports Clear Channel is considering an FM
> talk station in "one top ten market." Could it be Philly?
>
> A just for fun scenario: CC flips Sunny to talk, builds a
> traditional talker around Beck and Rush which move from
> 1210.
> 1210 clears O'Reilly live noon-2, moves Dom to 9-noon,
> clears Jay Severin in the early evening after Hannity.
> To round out its schedule, 104.5 also airs a local morning
> show, Ed Schultz in afternoon drive and Phil Hendrie in late
> evening. That leaves an evening gap ... maybe an up and
> coming young, local talk host?
> Mornings on 104.5: Wally Kennedy or Steve Highsmith.
>
> I don't think YSP is going talk.
>
> Discuss.
>

I agree. There is no way WYSP is turing to talk. WYSP is legendary in Philly. They air the Eagles and they are a top rated station in the area. No way they will switch

 

[EJ3]

I agree with the idea that WYSP isn't going anywhere, they are a Philly classic. I was under the impression that Air America's problems finding markets was advertisers not willing or able to sell ad time through them. I don't think we'll see AA around here again for a while, if ever.

 

[mwebster]

Apparently not. Early on, they wanted stations to take the entire line-up, all or nothing. That did not work, they've become more flexible. A few smaller market stations do take only one or two programs from AAR, mixed conservative and other talk programming.

Outside of smaller markets, where one station is one-size-fits-all, I doubt few programmers would want to mix conservative and liberal talk, although some do mix progressive talk with Imus, and with medical advice, financial advice or psychological advice shows.

Democracy Radio has Ed Schultz and Stephanie Miller on stations with conservative talkers. Clear Channel has Jerry Springer on the same station with Rush in Cleveland. And in West Palm Beach, Randi Rhodes is also on the same station with Rush (as she was when she did a local show there).

About the only way to get this info is to check individual station websites.


>
> Doesn't AA have a sort of non-compete clause for its
> affiliates that they can't also run programming that goes
> against their core philosophies (i.e., Rush or Hannity)? I
> thought I had read that somewhere as being one of the causes
> of AA programming not being heard on any traditional talkers
> and not being shuffled into line-ups alongside the likes of
> Rush. I'm trying to find that info, but I cannot, so I may
> be absolutely wrong.
>

 

[ajhenderson]

> WJNO, WPB, Florida, the former local home station of Randi
> Rhodes, has her show still on after Limbaugh & Beck.

The original issue over a year ago was AAR refusing to put AAR programming on Zwerling stations in Monterey, which had Michael Savage. They singled him out as a sticking point.

 

[pifflestick]

> > Insideradio.com reports Clear Channel is considering an FM
>
> > talk station in "one top ten market." Could it be Philly?
> >
> > A just for fun scenario: CC flips Sunny to talk, builds a
> > traditional talker around Beck and Rush which move from
> > 1210.
> > 1210 clears O'Reilly live noon-2, moves Dom to 9-noon,
> > clears Jay Severin in the early evening after Hannity.
> > To round out its schedule, 104.5 also airs a local morning
>
> > show, Ed Schultz in afternoon drive and Phil Hendrie in
> late
> > evening. That leaves an evening gap ... maybe an up and
> > coming young, local talk host?
> > Mornings on 104.5: Wally Kennedy or Steve Highsmith.
> >
> > I don't think YSP is going talk.
> >
> > Discuss.
> >
>
> I agree. There is no way WYSP is turing to talk. WYSP is
> legendary in Philly. They air the Eagles and they are a top
> rated station in the area. No way they will switch
>
YSP is getting beaten by MMR, and YSP still has what is probably the highest rated show in radio, namely, Howard. When he leaves all that will be left of that place is an ashen silhouette, like those in Hiroshima. KABOOM! They are not going to survive as a rock station. Talk makes a lot of sense for them, and Ealges radio is very compatible with that. If they are smart, and I haven't seen much any evidence that they are, they will change format the day Howard leaves. If they are not, they will cling to their current format and slowly spiral down into oblivion, then change format. BTW, YSP is not a legendary station. Howard is legendary, and they happen to be the lucky station that carries his show. That's what I think, but Tim Sabien isn't asking for my advise. Oops. Forgot. He already deserted that sinking ship.