Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking abou

[bigtalkradiofan]

Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking abou

Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking about "issues."

As my username demonstrates, I love listening to talk radio ...

But I'm already absolutely sick and tired of listening to "candidate bashing" this election season - I want to hear about "issues" that I care about again.

At this point, I'll listen to anything about an issue I even have a moderate amount of interest in - so long as I don't have to listen to any more "candidate bashing."

Lately, when I hear a radio talk show host begin to utter the name one of the major political candidates to begin a rant (e.g. Hillary/Obama or Bush/Giuliani/Romney) - I immediately change the channel - I just can't bear to listen to another radio segment, more or less another year, of bashing/ranting about Hillary/Obama or Bush/Giuliani/Romney.

We get it - you don't like them, and don't want us to vote for them - now move on to the next topic - move on to issues that we care about - PLEASE!!!!!!!!

But given that the 2008 election season started as soon as the 2006 mid-term elections were completed - and with nearly a year before the 2008 elections - talk radio has turned into 2 years of nothing but "candidate bashing" - which is awfully boring.

There is a time and a place for "candidate bashing" on talk radio - in the summer/fall prior to an election. But I've already reached my "saturation point" for this political season, and there is still a year till the election.

N/T radio stations and talk show hosts need to get back to "issues" that listeners care about - and guard against following the easy, but ridiculously boring, path of "candidate-bashing."

 

[drt]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking abou

I agree with BigTalkRadioFan,

but....... I must be in a minority, since many people are still glued to listening to all this bashing and talk radio seems to have good ratings regardless of whether the show talks about people or issues.

For the most part, I've quit listening to talk radio for the very reasons that BigTalkRadioFan mentions. This bashing isn't anything new, but it is certainly getting worse.

drt
st. petersburg,fl

 

[jimwalsh2001]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking abou

Talk radio needs to get away from the fixation with national politics...

 

[Phil Boyce]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking

Big Talk Radio Fan says:

N/T radio stations and talk show hosts need to get back to "issues" that listeners care about - and guard against following the easy, but ridiculously boring, path of "candidate-bashing."

The latest ABC-Washington Post Poll of average Americans shows that 70% of Americans are following the 08 presidential race closely. This is the highest it has ever been in the history of this poll, more than a year away from the actual election. It has been at this high level since last February.

You may not care....but an unusual number of Americans do care. These shows you are complaining about are merely reflecting what listeners are talking about. The potential Hillary vs. Rudy race is one that everybody will be talking about. I want a front row seat to that race...and talkradio gives that seat to me.

pb

 

[jimwalsh2001]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking abou

The latest ABC-Washington Post Poll of average Americans shows that 70% of Americans are following the 08 presidential race closely. This is the highest it has ever been in the history of this poll, more than a year away from the actual election. It has been at this high level since last February.

You may not care....but an unusual number of Americans do care. These shows you are complaining about are merely reflecting what listeners are talking about. The potential Hillary vs. Rudy race is one that everybody will be talking about. I want a front row seat to that race...and talkradio gives that seat to me.

pb

Talking about national politics is fine, if that's your strength...

But...

...we have a thousand guys on the air all talking about nothing but "the national political scene." "Those liberals...those Democrats...that Hillary," etc. The exact same topics, the exact same take(s) thereon.
That might be bearable if all those hosts knew what they were talking about. Hellooo... For every Rush or Hannity, you have a thousand guys with neither the talent nor the resources to pull it off. Yet they babble on about it anyway. And the ratings for "talk radio" nationwide continue to erode.

Surely you can't believe that's a good thing...

 

[brian65]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking

It is getting pretty bad lately and I find myself just turning it off or going to public radio.

I think many of these mid-day talkers get the 'listeners' they do simply because they are just about the only thing available to listen to (non-music) so people simply have them on for local news, weather and sports coverage.

 

[Gnarlodious]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking abou

I'm actually enjoying some of the new music since talk radio has gotten so bad. Seems like all they talk about is what candidate raised the most money like it is some kind of sports score. Surely there is more to discuss than the scoreboard...

But I think what we are seeing is the natural result of 20 years of conservative owned radio stations. The gospel according to Clear Channel and Citadel has not done the common American much good, and over the years listeners have goten very cynical and distrustful of the media. As a result, talkers are forced into more lurid descriptions of current events just to elicit the emotion needed to maintain a loyal listener.

Others on this site have suggested more variety of shows, and more wide bandwidth content for existing shows. Unfortunately, such suggestions are roundly condemned as socialistic or pro-interventionist. It's almost as though talk radio never realized there is competition. When listeners get fed up, they can listen to music on FM.

 

[SeanMGilbow]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking

Big Talk Radio Fan says:

N/T radio stations and talk show hosts need to get back to "issues" that listeners care about - and guard against following the easy, but ridiculously boring, path of "candidate-bashing."

The latest ABC-Washington Post Poll of average Americans shows that 70% of Americans are following the 08 presidential race closely. This is the highest it has ever been in the history of this poll, more than a year away from the actual election. It has been at this high level since last February.

You may not care....but an unusual number of Americans do care. These shows you are complaining about are merely reflecting what listeners are talking about. The potential Hillary vs. Rudy race is one that everybody will be talking about. I want a front row seat to that race...and talkradio gives that seat to me.

pb

Didn't hear about that poll, but heard about the one from Zogby:

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1393

UTICA, New York – A new Zogby Interactive survey shows Democrat Hillary Clinton of New York would lose to every one of the top five Republican presidential contenders, representing a reversal of fortune for the national Democratic front–runner who had led against all prospective GOP opponents earlier this year.

Meanwhile, fellow Democrats Barack Obama of Illinois and John Edwards of North Carolina would defeat or tie every one of the Republicans, this latest survey shows.

-----

Zogby was interviewed by Ed Schultz on Monday's show.

-----

The potential of a Hilary vs. Rudy race is falling faster than a lead balloon.

By the way...isn't the chemical abbreviation for lead pb?

-----

While I can't speak totally for the majority of the posters here, I'd put my money on Oprah taking the entire front row of seats.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=5788126

 

[bigtalkradiofan]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking

Big Talk Radio Fan says:

N/T radio stations and talk show hosts need to get back to "issues" that listeners care about - and guard against following the easy, but ridiculously boring, path of "candidate-bashing."

The latest ABC-Washington Post Poll of average Americans shows that 70% of Americans are following the 08 presidential race closely. This is the highest it has ever been in the history of this poll, more than a year away from the actual election. It has been at this high level since last February.

You may not care....but an unusual number of Americans do care. These shows you are complaining about are merely reflecting what listeners are talking about. The potential Hillary vs. Rudy race is one that everybody will be talking about. I want a front row seat to that race...and talkradio gives that seat to me.

pb

Two quick replies:

* Sean Gilbow - This is a "talk radio thread" and not a "politics thread." Since I started this thread, I'd prefer to keep this thread here in the N/T section - I don't want it moved to "Off-Topic" - so please keep comments related to talk radio (as opposed to general political discussion). Thanks!

* Phil Boyce - I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say (I likely wasn't clear enough).

It is not a matter of me not caring about the election - I care very deeply about the political scene - and I follow it religiously.

Rather just the opposite, I would consider myself a "political junkie," so I follow the daily newspaper, internet and blog stories and constantly listen to talk radio.

I also agree that the 2008 election has more people following closely than ever before.

But it is because everyone is following the race so closely - that the daily "candidate bashing" has gotten stale and boring - and fails to be entertaining anymore - and here's why:

One or two incidents occur on the campaign trail each day - here's how it unfolds on talk radio ...

Here's what it sounds like to conservative talk radio listeners:
* Local Morning show - Usually mentions the incidents, and spends time bashing Hillary/Obama
* Rush = Rinse and repeat - 3 hours of bashing Hillary/Obama
* Sean = Rinse and repeat - 3 hours of bashing Hillary/Obama
* Local Afternoon show - Last Rinse - Completes the bashing Hillary/Obama

And for the counterpoint example, here's what it sounds like to liberal talk radio listeners:
* Local Morning show - Usually mentions the incidents, and spends time bashing Bush/Giuliani/Romney
* Stephanie Miller - Rinse and repeat - 3 hours of bashing Bush/Giuliani/Romney
* Ed Schultz - Rinse and repeat - 3 hours of bashing Bush/Giuliani/Romney
* Randi Rhodes - Rinse and repeat - 3 hours of bashing Bush/Giuliani/Romney
* Local Evening show - Last Rinse - Completes the bashing Bush/Giuliani/Romney

Not to mention: the local/national TV news, newspapers, internet, etc all covering the exact same one or two incidents from the campaign trail each day.

As people drive in to work - they hear it initially. As they eat lunch at their desk - they hear it repeated. By the time they drive home, it is all getting repeated yet again for the 3rd time.

And this happens every business day since the 2006 elections ended in Nov 2006 - so talk radio listeners reach a "saturation point" where its the exact same thing - day in and day out, all day long - the same political candidates - the same critiques - and the only thing new, is one or two incidents that are being replayed everywhere in the media all day long.

I would tell the talk show hosts:
* We get it - you don't like them (opposing candidates), and you don't want us to vote for them.
* Since we listen to your show, we are in the choir too - so you don't need to sell us, we are already sold.
* Spend a few minutes on bashing the opposing candidate, do your diligent duty
* But then move on to other topics that we (your audience) care about.
* I don't want to turn back and hear the same thing (candidate bashing) repeated in Hours 2 and 3.
* Rather spend Hours 2 & 3 talking about issues that I (the audience) care deeply about.

Maybe only spend Hour 1 bashing Hillary/Obama or Bush/Giuliani/Romney.

Then move on and spend Hours 2 & 3 talking about issues conservatives care about (or substitute liberal for LibTalk) - talk about the issues: taxes, immigration, God, guns, life/social/moral issues - whatever - just please move beyond the "candidate bashing" and talk about the issues that your audience cares about - PLEASE!!!!

 

[cm454]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking

These shows you are complaining about are merely reflecting what listeners are talking about.

Most of those shows ALWAYS talk about politics, irrespective to whether or not any poll indicates there's any interest in it on a wide, broad, national level.

While THIS period may be a legit time to dwell on national politics, I believe the original poster of this thread was really addressing the incredible and rather lazy reliance on politics ad nauseum.

What makes it even more boring is perhaps the predictablility of so many who clearly have a left or right leaning agenda, rendering them incapable of giving a fair and intellectually honest apraisal of a situation.

 

[cm454]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking

The latest ABC-Washington Post Poll of average Americans shows that 70% of Americans are following the 08 presidential race closely.

By the way, I would love for them to define "closely". I know an awful lot of educated and successful people, liberal and conservative alike, and nowhere near 7 out of 10 are following the Presidential race "closely" ---unless "closely" means looking up from their dinnerplate long enough to catch the latest debate's soundbites on the evening news.

I would venture to say that 70% of average Americans also care about a ton of other things going on in the world that have NOTHING to do with a Presidential election race---especially a year before the election.

 

[bigtalkradiofan]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking

While THIS period may be a legit time to dwell on national politics, I believe the original poster of this thread was really addressing the incredible and rather lazy reliance on politics ad nauseum.

Let me clarify even further:

A.) National Politics - I enjoy listening to talk radio discussing national politics (e.g. Rush & Sean) when it talks about:
* More than just bashing individual politicians, and
* Ventures into political issues (e.g. taxes, immigration, God, guns, life/social/moral issues, whatever, etc), or
* Talks about political philosophy, or
* The prospects of a piece of legislation making it through the legislative process, etc
* In general, I'm fine with national politics, as long as it isn't fixated on bashing one or two politicians all the live long day.

B.) 2008 Elections - I can benefit from a "short" update each day on the election horse-race, but after about 20 minutes - I'm looking for a different topic to keep my attention. I also realize that as the primaries start occurring there will be more to report on this front.

C.) 2008 Candidate Bashing - This is what I can't stand anymore:

3 Hours A Day X 5 Days A Week X For 2 Years (Nov 2006 - Nov 2008) of:

* Conservatives - Hillary/Obama bad; Bush/Giuliani/Romney good.

* Liberals - Bush/Giuliani/Romney bad; Hillary/Obama good.

Nothing is more boring and unentertaining - than hour after hour of - Hillary this or Bush that (Hour 1)...Hillary this or Bush that (Hour 2)...Hillary this or Bush that (Hour 3)...on and on and on ...

At some point a listener says, got the point - now please move on - to an issue that I care deeply about!

So I'm not anti-national politics, or even anti-2008 election coverage - but I am anti-"nothing but candidate bashing" talk radio for 2 years.

As an avid talk radio listener, if I've already reached my "saturation point" with "candidate bashing" (and I'm not the only one) - I can't imagine what another 11 months of talk radio that does nothing but "candidate bash" will be like - maybe I will take one poster's suggestion and start listening to more music.

 

[SeanMGilbow]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking

A couple of things:

I was not intentionally trying to take things off topic. I agree with all of you except one on the need to not focus so much on the candidates as they have.

In the case of Ed Schultz, perhaps he can talk more about football.

And in the case of Stephanie Miller, perhaps the reason the focus has been on Hilary vs. Oprah (yes, I said Oprah) is because...it's Oprah and she's a chick. And there hasn't been any news recently from the Paris Hilton and Britney Spears camp.

But seriously...

My original comments here were aimed at the lone dissenter, to whom you should target your sentiments to the point of driving him nuts:

Phil Boyce is the Vice President of Talk Programming for Citadel, whose stations include WABC in New York. He is the man behind Sean Hannity and Mark Levin. WABC also serves as the flagship station for Rush Limbaugh and, as of Monday, Don Imus.

If you want things to change in talk radio, the key is putting bugs in the right ears. I would suggest that they be big bugs in the case of Phil Boyce.

 

[Phil Boyce]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking

You can't drive me nuts. I already am. And unlike most of the posters I see on this board who spend an unusual amount of time deriding talkradio, I actually make my living inside it. I do pretty well.

And the ratings for "talk radio" nationwide continue to erode.

Simply not true. The News/Talk format continues to be the most listened to format on radio in America. It has been that way for a number of years and nothing has happened to change that. I realize some of you think Rush to Sean to Mark Levin is a long boring rant of "I Hate Hillary" but you are not a talkradio fan, so you just don't get it. The same could be said if a housewife who watches the View accidentally got stuck in a rental car that only picked up the sports radio station. She would soon drive off the road.

You don't get this format. That's fine. But a lot of people do. In the Spring 2007 rating period, WABC in New York City, a liberal bastion if there ever was one, scored 11 hours and 42 minutes of TSL from the average listener. The highest of any station in NYC. In October, when Arbitron rolled out the PPM we still scored 7 hours of TSL which radio observers said was impossible. It was again the most time spent listening of any radio station in New York. For a format that is failing, and boring, and repetitive.

Maybe you just are not meant for this format. It's OK. I only need a 5 share to be a hero. That means 95% are not listening. Go ahead....try to drive me crazy. Not gonna happen. I actually think I am driving all of YOU crazy, because unlike most of you, I actually KNOW how this format works, why it works, and how to keep making it work. I do this for a living, without a net. If I am wrong, I lose my job. If you are wrong, nobody will ever remember your post.

pb

 

[jimwalsh2001]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking abou

Re: "Phil Boyce" (sorry...I don't believe for one New York minute that the PD of WABC has nothing better to do than get into message-board urination matches with the all of us underemployed slugs in Red State America...) ;D

Yes, talk is the number one format. And yes...industry-wide it is eroding. Don't take my word for it, folks; get the ARBs yourself and crunch the numbers.

Part of the problem is that we're talking apples and oranges here: I for one do not begrudge the success of WABC - not one bit. 'ABC does well, because it has (for the most part) world-class entertainers.

I'm talking about the big picture, the industry as a whole. What I am saying is that there is room in this world for other species of spoken-word radio. You wouldn't know it from listening to the talk radio in most markets though - instead we get the same, stale conserva-clones.

The question is this: in your home market (assuming you're not in NYC) what would you rather hear:

1) a local or syndicated yokel aping Rush/Hannity/etc.

2) a local or syndicated host with original ideas and opinions playing to his/her strengths?

Apparently, if you own a spoken word-fornmatted radio station in North America, the answer is #1. For the rest of us... :

 

[cm454]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking abou

Part of the problem is that we're talking apples and oranges here: I for one do not begrudge the success of WABC - not one bit. 'ABC does well, because it has (for the most part) world-class entertainers.

I'm talking about the big picture, the industry as a whole. What I am saying is that there is room in this world for other species of spoken-word radio. You wouldn't know it from listening to the talk radio in most markets though - instead we get the same, stale conserva-clones.

The question is this: in your home market (assuming you're not in NYC) what would you rather hear:

1) a local or syndicated yokel aping Rush/Hannity/etc.

2) a local or syndicated host with original ideas and opinions playing to his/her strengths?

Apparently, if you own a spoken word-fornmatted radio station in North America, the answer is #1. For the rest of us... :

The reality:

The music-listening public greatly outnumbers the amount of people who listen to talk. The music-listening public, while not exclusive, has many more options than the talk listener. Can you imagine if the music-listener only had 1 format to listen to? How long before they would seek other audio sources to satisfy their desire for music?

There are very few talk stations in any given market, especially when compared to the music outlets. The sheer lack of choice in talk, combined with the monothematic nature of talk, will certainly impact the formats growth on terrestrial radio in coming years.

The fact is, YES, Mr. Boyce is having much success doing what he's doing, the way he's doing it. Good luck convincing him to change.

HOWEVER, even he would (I hope) have to agree, that at least 70% of Americans, likely even more, care about MANY things that have little to do with national politics, yet are worthy of entertaining discussion.

The younger generation is absolutely convinced (for good reason) that AM talkradio is just about politics---and that's a shame.

 

[bigtalkradiofan]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking

I realize some of you think Rush to Sean to Mark Levin is a long boring rant of "I Hate Hillary" but you are not a talkradio fan, so you just don't get it. The same could be said if a housewife who watches the View accidentally got stuck in a rental car that only picked up the sports radio station. She would soon drive off the road.

Phil Boyce,


But don't you think 9 straight hours a day of "I Hate Hillary" gets stale and unentertaining afterwhile, for even the most die-hard talk radio fan?

"I Hate Hillary" for 9 Straight Hours A Day X 5 Days A Week X For 2 Years (Nov 2006 - Nov 2008) = a recipe for boring and unenteraining radio.

I think someone can be a dedicated talk radio fan - and get how the radio industry works - and yet grow tired of "I Hate Hillary" for 9 straight hours every day.

Why not spend only Hour 1 fixated on "I Hate Hillary", and instead spend Hours 2 & 3 talking about conservative issues: e.g. taxes, immigration, God, guns, life/social/moral issues, whatever, etc.

I never thought I'd see the day - where I couldn't wait for Rush or Sean to go back to bashing the Democrats party (the usual whipping boy) - because I'm sick and tired of hearing them spend 9 straight hours every day repeating the same chorus line of "I Hate Hillary."

 

[Phil Boyce]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking

bigtalkradiofan says:

But don't you think 9 straight hours a day of "I Hate Hillary" gets stale and unentertaining afterwhile, for even the most die-hard talk radio fan?

Yes of course, but you are not really a big talkradio fan, despite your screen name. If you were you would know that Rush, Sean, and Mark do not bash Hillary all the time. Sure they do a lot of the time, but there is so much more to these shows that if you really are a fan of this kind of talk, you will not get tired of it.

When Rush was attacked on the floor of the Senate by Harry Reid it had nothing to do with Hillary. Watching Rush completely humiliate Reid and the senate for that letter was some of the best radio I have heard in years. It was brilliant. That is just one example. The are the big three. They would not succeed together if they did not find something unique, different, and compelling to talk about every day. During the period of time where you think they were just bashing Hillary all the time...I was setting high water marks for TSL, the amount of time the average listener stays listening to my station. The facts do not lie. I listed the TSL above. If these shows were as boring as you say, that TSL would drop.

They are not boring, and I question your screen name.

pb

 

[Phil Boyce]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking

Jim Walsh says:

I'm talking about the big picture, the industry as a whole. What I am saying is that there is room in this world for other species of spoken-word radio. You wouldn't know it from listening to the talk radio in most markets though - instead we get the same, stale conserva-clones.

CM454 says:

HOWEVER, even he would (I hope) have to agree, that at least 70% of Americans, likely even more, care about MANY things that have little to do with national politics, yet are worthy of entertaining discussion.

The younger generation is absolutely convinced (for good reason) that AM talkradio is just about politics---and that's a shame.

I absolutely do agree and I think it will happen someday. The problem is trying to develop a new kind of format is risky and difficult. Not many owners of big FM sticks are willing to take the gamble. There have been a number of highly publicized failures here. But your point is a good one, and it will be here someday.

The truth is, music radio on FM is becoming tough to program because music is a commodity. It is available everywhere, on the computer, on the IPOD, on satellite radio with no commercials. Whatever your taste in music, somebody is running it. It is making FM music radio tougher to program. But talk is unique because the station owns the talent. The talent is normally not available elsewhere and if the talent is compelling enough, the station will find an audience. Getting owners of these expensive FM sticks to take the risk is tough, but it will happen.

And Jim, it really is me. I do this to blow off steam. It is therapeutic for me and I feel I am delivering a public service at the same time, educating you fine folks on how radio really works. LOL

pb

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Re: Talk radio needs to move beyond "candidate-bashing" and get back to talking

Phil:

This issue was raised in another thread. I'd be curious to hear your take. Hundreds of stations are doing ive "candidate bashing" conservative political talk with the default line-up (Beck-Rush-Hannity-Levin) or with various members of the second team (Ingraham-Gallagher-Boortz-O'Reilly-Savage). And with all due respect, there is evidence the audience for this approach is shrinking and aging.

How come nobody else is trying a NJ 101.5 approach to talk radio? Not saying ABC should do it? The format works well, apparently better than standard political talk in the money demos. How come nobody is trying it? (Yes, ABC now is doing weekend Oldies, too, but that's about as close as anybody I know of has come.)