Talk Radio Scoreboard for Major Markets - December 2014

[FredLeonard]

David, I guess will have to take your word for all this (or not) since you cite information to which none of the rest of us have access.

However, "some college" means any post-secondary instruction and any amount of it. A couple of community college courses. Technical training in the military. One of those rip-off proprietary schools. Even one of those six week broadcasting courses. And it's all self-reported, so "some college" is whatever anybody wants to say it is. Even Rush had "some college" (a couple of courses her flunked in Cape Girardeau, once he realized a cyst on his fat ass would keep him out of the military - so other people could die in the wars he thinks are such fun).

 

[wadio]

I had no idea truck drivers and the like made so much money. Still doesn't make them smart.

Do you hear yourself? Who's smarter: an unemployed intellectual who spends his days in the public library or a guy with the common sense to do what he needs to do to support himself and his family?

Unfortunately NPR tends to celebrate people who have made all kinds of stupid choices and are trying to rebuild their lives, rather than people with common sense who are doing their best to support themselves and not be a burden on society.

 

[TheBigA]

Unfortunately NPR tends to celebrate people who have made all kinds of stupid choices and are trying to rebuild their lives, rather than people with common sense who are doing their best to support themselves and not be a burden on society.

I don't know if you can make that generalization. I hear lots of stories on NPR about just plain people too.

 

[wadio]

I don't know if you can make that generalization. I hear lots of stories on NPR about just plain people too.

True, that's why I said, "tends to..."

 

[TheBigA]

True, that's why I said, "tends to..."

"Tends to..." is also a generalization.

 

[FredLeonard]

What's wrong with generalizations? They are useful in describing aggravates. Yes, great caution must be used in applying them to individuals.

If the right-wing talk audience is so smart, accomplished and intellectually sophisticated, how do explain the type of products advertised and the quality of the pitches they use? In addition, of course, to the illogic used in the hosts' arguments.

 

[TheBigA]

What's wrong with generalizations?

What's wrong with saying it's a generalization?

 

[wadio]

... if the right-wing talk audience is so smart, accomplished and intellectually sophisticated, ...

Who said that? Certainly not me. But I don't believe the Public Radio audience is any smarter.

 

[davideduardo]

David, I guess will have to take your word for all this (or not) since you cite information to which none of the rest of us have access.

My source is Nielsen.

However, "some college" means any post-secondary instruction and any amount of it. A couple of community college courses. Technical training in the military. One of those rip-off proprietary schools. Even one of those six week broadcasting courses.

Wrong. "Some college" means having attended a college or university, but not having graduated.

I ran the same markets on "college degree" and got the same results. Those named N/T station over-index severely in "college graduates" too.

And it's all self-reported, so "some college" is whatever anybody wants to say it is. Even Rush had "some college" (a couple of courses her flunked in Cape Girardeau, once he realized a cyst on his fat ass would keep him out of the military - so other people could die in the wars he thinks are such fun).

Despite the ad hominem distraction, most people know that "some college" means exactly that. Not trade school, not military training.

And your obsession with degree of education masks the fact that there are many intelligent persons who are autodidacts and who did not have the opportunity to go to college. A degree, per se, is not an indication of intelligence or "smarts".

 

[davideduardo]

If the right-wing talk audience is so smart, accomplished and intellectually sophisticated, how do explain the type of products advertised and the quality of the pitches they use? In addition, of course, to the illogic used in the hosts' arguments.

Radio is not in business to turn down business. There are certain product categories that perform very well in talk environments, and they tend to be non-traditional advertisers... the kind that did not use radio a few decades ago when you were apparently in the medium.

You'll note that the advertisers on higher rated talk stations tend to be similar to those on the well performing news stations. Same environment.

If you are using low rated talkers (like WPHT) as your reference, it's likely they don't get on as many agency buys so they go after other kinds of accounts. No different than any other lower rated station.

I'd also remind you that talk shows like Howard Stern tended to be avoided by the "quality" advertisers despite huge ratings and in many markets the local sales tended to be dominated by bail bonds offices and such. This was because many advertisers avoid any type of controversy, whether it be conservative talk or "hot" talk.

 

[Ravens]

Anyone else planning on reporting this incident of "name calling"? Or doesn't it count when directed against a group of people?

Why bother? It's pretty well established that bashing conservatives is welcomed here.

 

[Ravens]

Absolutely no faith. But you wouldn't understand.

I had no idea truck drivers and the like made so much money. Still doesn't make them smart. Your profile, from your description, was income - not education. If blue collar workers have so much income, it is thanks to unions - which tea people now oppose, playing right into the hands of the elite who use right-wing talk to manipulate them. Once the unions are eviscerated, these workers will have incomes to match their levels of education. Let's see how right-wing they are then.

1. Unions were run out of trucking decades ago. Drivers still make a good living.

2. I guarantee you lack the intelligence to even fill out a log book, much less have to plan a route taking into consideration traffic, how many hours you would have left to drive, and a million other considerations. You wouldn't last an hour as a truck driver.

3. Every other false talking point you've tried to make has already been expertly debunked by David, so no need to pile on with that.

 

[BOZ Profit]

Why bother? It's pretty well established that bashing conservatives is welcomed here.

There is equal liberal bashing. Then again, maybe not... maybe the Conservatives have more restraint and character.

I am a Constitutional Conservative. I believe that people are allowed to think, say and write what they want (as long as they are not inciting a riot or other violence which could cause harm to people). It is up to those of us with conservative values to shed a light on the issues. How does the saying go? Sunlight is the best disinfectant... in any case, I am not going to censure opinions just because I or others here disagree.

I hope that clears that up..

 

[Ravens]

maybe the Conservatives have more restraint and character

You make a good point.

 

[FredLeonard]

There is equal liberal bashing. Then again, maybe not... maybe the Conservatives have more restraint and character.

I am a Constitutional Conservative. I believe that people are allowed to think, say and write what they want (as long as they are not inciting a riot or other violence which could cause harm to people). It is up to those of us with conservative values to shed a light on the issues. How does the saying go? Sunlight is the best disinfectant... in any case, I am not going to censure opinions just because I or others here disagree.

I hope that clears that up..

Gee, a "constitutional conservative" but you live in Canada where there is nothing like the US first amendment. And not just Canada but Quebec, where there is no tradition of free expression.

Conservatives have "restraint and character?" If that's so, it just shows what I've long suspected. Right wing talk show hosts like Rush, Hannity, Beck, Levin and Ailes' lackeys, the tea party and the religious right are not really "conservatives" - no matter what they call themselves. George Will, William F. Buckley, Barry Goldwater were. But the others are fascists.

 

[Jul]

It would be stupid for CBS, not to think about making a major change with 1210 AM WPHT. In light of the recent ratings, they may have to think about dropping talk soon and let WHYY and WNTP take over the talk format for the market.

 

[BOZ Profit]

Gee, a "constitutional conservative" but you live in Canada where there is nothing like the US first amendment. And not just Canada but Quebec, where there is no tradition of free expression.

Yes, I live in Canada. I'm not sure what your point is. Your comment makes it sound like I am not in position nor am qualified to have the views I have. Is there a law that requires that because I was born in the US that I must live in the US? Is there a law that says I have to think and believe that which is thought among the general population of where I live? Or maybe, I can act as an agent of change where I live...

Conservatives have "restraint and character?" If that's so, it just shows what I've long suspected. Right wing talk show hosts like Rush, Hannity, Beck, Levin and Ailes' lackeys, the tea party and the religious right are not really "conservatives" - no matter what they call themselves. George Will, William F. Buckley, Barry Goldwater were. But the others are fascists.

Um. Last time I checked, the remark I was responding to was one that Ravens made about the member base here, not radio hosts or politicians... So, my point is that Conservative HERE on RD seem to have had more restraint than the liberals, Fred. That is my point. Because, I have noticed that you tend to bash Conservatives EVERY chance you get here. Am I wrong?

 

[Gregg.]

Three things...

I was surprised at first by David's research into the education achievement of Talk Radio listeners. I guess many of us assumed Talk Radio was aimed at the less educated, NPR and All-News aimed at the better educated. It seems Talk Radio shows are conducted that way, almost like a WWE wrestling match. Obama and the Democrats are always the bad guys, Republicans are always the good guys, and there is no nuance to the debate. And it's always about national conservative politics. Hosts can never discuss how to find bargains on vacations or some tips on choosing a doctor or anything non-political. It's ALWAYS Obama bad, Republicans good, all day long.

But I guess we should figure that the less educated probably wouldn't be listening to any sort of spoken word programming, choosing music instead. If David has the time, maybe he could look into the education levels of NPR and All-News stations.

I also wonder why WMAL Washington seems to have reversed its poor ratings from a few years ago, or why WMAL and WJR Detroit, among Cumulus-owned Talk Radio stations, do so well, while WABC NYC, KABC LA, WLS Chicago, WBAP Dallas and KCMO Kansas City do so poorly.

And for Julius, others have said it but I'll repeat it. I can understand your calling for WPHT to hire better Talk hosts, to improve the ratings. But I can't see why you'd call on them to abandoned the Talk format altogether. There isn't any other format for them to get into. CBS owns KYW, so 1210 can't do All-News. CBS owns WIP-FM so they can't switch to Sports. They tried doing older oldies some years ago as an AM version of WOGL, so 1210 wouldn't go back to that format. So what would they do? It's a 50,000 watt Class A, non-directional station. It should be a Talk station. But I think in Philly, Conservative Talk has never worked and the station should find good moderate to liberal, all local hosts (with Coast to Coast overnight, since that's not a political show).

I suppose stations like WPHT, even with low ratings, still turn a profit because Talk stations can run more commercials than music stations. And the listening is all foreground, so the spots probably have better listener retention than commercials on a music station. Look at how low stations like WLS, KABC and WIOD Miami are rated, yet nobody is suggesting these stations give up Talk.

 

[Jul]

Three things...

I was surprised at first by David's research into the education achievement of Talk Radio listeners. I guess many of us assumed Talk Radio was aimed at the less educated, NPR and All-News aimed at the better educated. It seems Talk Radio shows are conducted that way, almost like a WWE wrestling match. Obama and the Democrats are always the bad guys, Republicans are always the good guys, and there is no nuance to the debate. And it's always about national conservative politics. Hosts can never discuss how to find bargains on vacations or some tips on choosing a doctor or anything non-political. It's ALWAYS Obama bad, Republicans good, all day long.

But I guess we should figure that the less educated probably wouldn't be listening to any sort of spoken word programming, choosing music instead. If David has the time, maybe he could look into the education levels of NPR and All-News stations.

I also wonder why WMAL Washington seems to have reversed its poor ratings from a few years ago, or why WMAL and WJR Detroit, among Cumulus-owned Talk Radio stations, do so well, while WABC NYC, KABC LA, WLS Chicago, WBAP Dallas and KCMO Kansas City do so poorly.

And for Julius, others have said it but I'll repeat it. I can understand your calling for WPHT to hire better Talk hosts, to improve the ratings. But I can't see why you'd call on them to abandoned the Talk format altogether. There isn't any other format for them to get into. CBS owns KYW, so 1210 can't do All-News. CBS owns WIP-FM so they can't switch to Sports. They tried doing older oldies some years ago as an AM version of WOGL, so 1210 wouldn't go back to that format. So what would they do? It's a 50,000 watt Class A, non-directional station. It should be a Talk station. But I think in Philly, Conservative Talk has never worked and the station should find good moderate to liberal, all local hosts (with Coast to Coast overnight, since that's not a political show).

I suppose stations like WPHT, even with low ratings, still turn a profit because Talk stations can run more commercials than music stations. And the listening is all foreground, so the spots probably have better listener retention than commercials on a music station. Look at how low stations like WLS, KABC and WIOD Miami are rated, yet nobody is suggesting these stations give up Talk.

Great points. Here's what I think on what should happen to WPHT 1210 AM. As this point, any changes the station make with the talk format will not fix anything. The station's damaged goods and it got that way because of many, many mistakes made by management, with its programming and selection of hosts and with the format in general. I won't be shocked if KYW newsradio moves to 1210 AM from 1060 or a sports format airing on 1210 AM, via CBS Sports Radio or a 94 WIP simulcast. IF KYW moves to 1210, I would guess 1060 would go all sports or get sold. Either way Philly radio can survive without a major talker like WPHT. WPHT had a golden opportunity to fill the void of WWDB-FM and WCAU and be a successful talk station, to be quite frank, it hasn't filled the void. WWDB-FM and WCAU-AM will always be the better talk stations, than WPHT.

 

[TheBigA]

I also wonder why WMAL Washington seems to have reversed its poor ratings from a few years ago, or why WMAL and WJR Detroit, among Cumulus-owned Talk Radio stations, do so well, while WABC NYC, KABC LA, WLS Chicago, WBAP Dallas and KCMO Kansas City do so poorly.

You missed KGO San Francisco. I think the reason WMAL and WJR are doing so well is because of the strength of their local morning news show. The thing that's killing WABC is Imus. The man is embarrassing himself, and really should call it quits. I'm reading that WLS is about to hire Big John Howell for mornings, which is a GREAT idea. He's a legend in Chicago, and with some solid news reporting around him, could resurrect that station.