TAPS FOR RXP?

[BJSteigner]

Allow me to warm up so I can play Taps in front of RXP's last song before signing off...permanently.

 

[stationless listener]

There has to be a station that plays newer rock. The problem is that 'RXP isn't focusing on newer rock. This has to be corrected quickly.

 

[MarkO]

The past week's 'RXP sponsoring of the Dead Weather (Alison Mosshart, Jack White) shows was a step in the right direction; hopefully it wasn't just a one-off fluke. Dead Weather doesn't actually seem to be getting much if any airplay on the station, where roughly one in seven songs is genuinely something new.

 

[oasisrulz]

I cannot understand why everyone in this market is against any form of ROCK.....You have your saturation of Hispanic, Urban, Talk, Minority and Sports formats. As soon as a station tries to go Rock in any form, you all wait like vultures to tear it down and hope it fails. RXP is the only thing playing any form of new rock, granted they need plenty of work but why is everyone so anti-Rock in this town....its unfair....and the dentists board is not much different...

 

[neo11]

I cannot understand why everyone in this market is against any form of ROCK.....You have your saturation of Hispanic, Urban, Talk, Minority and Sports formats. As soon as a station tries to go Rock in any form, you all wait like vultures to tear it down and hope it fails. RXP is the only thing playing any form of new rock, granted they need plenty of work but why is everyone so anti-Rock in this town....its unfair....and the dentists board is not much different...

There's definitely a lot of people posting who do seem to be anti-rock, but I find that I see that more on the dentist board, where most posters seem to stick to a rigid thinking that "New York is not a rock town" or "rock is too fragmented" then gleefully point to the failures of RXP as proof that their thinking is correct.

However, what I sense is that a lot of the negative posts on this board are more from people who are frustrated with RXP and its continued stubborn approach in playing a mishmash of rock that really doesn't flow well together at all, instead of standing out, dumping the stuff normally heard on Q and PLJ and Lite FM, and emphasizing new rock that much more.

Radio seems to be ignoring the fact that "new rock" has largely overtaken hip-hop as the preference for young adults. College students, educated recent graduates, young professionals right here in NYC. The common response to this is that "rock fans can find the music they enjoy online, they don't need radio." But that's flawed logic. One can find any type of genre of music online and download it to their mp3 player. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't embrace a radio station that also plays the music that they enjoy...one that is also tuned in to their lifestyle (appearances at live performances, sponsorships of concerts and live events...RXP does a little of it, e.g. with ticket giveaways for All Points West...but they could do a lot more).

It's this line of thinking that's killing radio. It just seems that the "suits" are content to reach out to the listeners they already have, but thinking long-term, it's a losing strategy...because as those listeners age out, younger listeners won't be replacing them in equal numbers, or will only tune to the radio for the odd non-commercial station. The commercial radio industry is allowing an entire generation to get away from the medium.

Imagine that commercial radio ignored hip-hop in the 90s in the same way that, in NYC at least, new rock is being ignored. How foolish would that have been?

 

[buffalotom]

11:56 PM "DON'T WANNA CRY" - PETE YORN
11:52 PM "WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE" - GUNS N' ROSES
11:43 PM "FALL ON ME" - R.E.M.
11:39 PM "LOLA" - KINKS
11:37 PM "I BET YOU LOOK GOOD ON THE DANCEFLOOR" - ARCTIC MONKEYS

Really? Start off with an annoying brit band's novelty song from last year, move into crusty old Lola, then old school REM, into Guns and top it off with a Pete Yorn soon to be forgotten pile of poop! Those are the keys to success my friends.

Speaking of turds who was on this afternoon? I heard some break where he gave a Beastie Boys album and or tickets away to an old lady and the whole exchange sounded like CBS FM. I thought at the end of it he was going to say "Thanks for listening."

 

[TheBigA]

It's this line of thinking that's killing radio. It just seems that the "suits" are content to reach out to the listeners they already have, but thinking long-term, it's a losing strategy...because as those listeners age out, younger listeners won't be replacing them in equal numbers, or will only tune to the radio for the odd non-commercial station. The commercial radio industry is allowing an entire generation to get away from the medium.

I read that point of view a lot, and think back to when I was in college, we didn't have cell phones or computers. Yet as those technologies came along, I became as addicted to them as people who grew up with them. And when I was in college, I mainly listened to college radio, because the commercial stations were too old. My opinion changed as I became the same age as those who are on the air.

So based on my experience, I don't think that will be much of an issue as people age. What's important is that radio grow and change, and provide content that relates to people 25 and over. If they do it, and it's good, free, and convenient, people will listen.

 

[MrHoffman85]

Tell me. How is that New York City, is the largest city in the United States and it doesn't have a rock station?. Hell, Jackson, MS has one, and that's a small city.

 

[neo11]

It's this line of thinking that's killing radio. It just seems that the "suits" are content to reach out to the listeners they already have, but thinking long-term, it's a losing strategy...because as those listeners age out, younger listeners won't be replacing them in equal numbers, or will only tune to the radio for the odd non-commercial station. The commercial radio industry is allowing an entire generation to get away from the medium.

I read that point of view a lot, and think back to when I was in college, we didn't have cell phones or computers. Yet as those technologies came along, I became as addicted to them as people who grew up with them. And when I was in college, I mainly listened to college radio, because the commercial stations were too old. My opinion changed as I became the same age as those who are on the air.

So based on my experience, I don't think that will be much of an issue as people age. What's important is that radio grow and change, and provide content that relates to people 25 and over. If they do it, and it's good, free, and convenient, people will listen.

But this is just one person's opinion and experience. I don't think that today's teenagers and young adults will suddenly grow to like CBS-FM or Q104.3 when they hit the magic number of 25 just because they're "old(er)" now. Especially if those stations continue playing the music that the baby boomers want to hear.

 

[TheBigA]

But this is just one person's opinion and experience. I don't think that today's teenagers and young adults will suddenly grow to like CBS-FM or Q104.3 when they hit the magic number of 25 just because they're "old(er)" now. Especially if those stations continue playing the music that the baby boomers want to hear.

Read my post again. I said the stations would have to provide content that's relevant to people 25 and over. So those formats will not remain on those stations in 5 years. Obviously I'm not expecting Gen Y to change its music taste. But if it's available in a good, free, and convenient device, they will listen. Even if they have no previous experience with the device.

 

[adma]

But this is just one person's opinion and experience. I don't think that today's teenagers and young adults will suddenly grow to like CBS-FM or Q104.3 when they hit the magic number of 25 just because they're "old(er)" now. Especially if those stations continue playing the music that the baby boomers want to hear.

Which, in an age of everything from downloads to "Guitar Hero", may not be a matter of "music that the baby boomers want to hear", so much as music presented in a manner that baby boomers are accustomed to hearing, but which by today's standards seems hackneyed and dated. In practice, I find that younger people today are actually more open and thoughtful t/w the music of their elders than their elders were--it's the context in which they're hearing it (i.e. oldies-type formulae) that's the sticking point.

Likewise, today's taste for Sinatra owes virtually nil to the MOR/adult standards formulae of yesteryear. And today, it may not work in favour of commercial radio formulae at all.

 

[oaktree]

I'm sorry to say, but a most important fact has been left out of this equation and from the demographics of those posting, it's quite understandable, especially if you don't know the "inside story."

The problem, is, plain and simple, that "time buyers" ... those whose call it is to take the responsibility for the research they do ... and some do more than others ... it comes down to this: In a field of 80 radio stations, a station cannot pick and choose what "chances" it wants to take to attract not just a cume or average quarter hour ... it has to be HUGE.  In New York, as has been proven in decades of doing so and, now, with PPM, it's about "hearing" not "listening."  The PPM "hears" stations and is no indication of a "listening loyalty" to a particular station. No matter where a "PPM panelist" is ... they are subjected to "hearing" whatever station or sound is on in that environment.  They have no choice, unless they actually turn the radio on.  In a mobile world, that's hard to do, in planting oneself next to a radio all day.  Hence, the reason why diary recall worked (though easily faked,) and that PPM is on the other extreme.  The result, for stations like RXP ... a catch-22. Not a big enough audience and programming that doesn't give even those PPM listeners enough of what they really want.

Secondly, time buyers are paid not to take chances with other people's money (the client's.) It takes a lot of time, when you're chasing 18-24s, 18-34s and, especially, 25-54s to make a decision on "taking a chance" with a station just because "it has its fans."  The problem, in an economy like this, is that there aren't enough of them, and "going new" in a format is certainly not the way to guarantee sponsors who are footing the bill for more than one station, and quite possibly four or more, to "take a chance."

It's just not going to happen. In buying, it's about "mass appeal" and "mass numbers." It has to be.  Either that, or get an ipod and program yourself. Or an Internet radio. Or something not dependent on producing "results" when it comes to making clients a return on investment from advertising ... the only known model radio has, and has had, since its inception.

There are plenty of poor stations out there at, say, number 20 or number 60 that even if programmed well, for a niche, for a fragment of the audience share of a Lite, or a ' CBS-FM, or a WINS, or a 'FAN or even some top rated urban and minority signals, which they would go ga ga to get.  But they won't ... because they program to advertisers, not to listeners.  They go for the masses, they have the facilities to do so and they have a legacy of surviving, even with the bumps in the road like going on right now.

It's not about your eclectic taste.  It's not about "Amp".  It's about what works and gets the masses. And the masses, in the desired demos, rule .... not "what's new."

And RXP has been a boat anchor because the "niche" to survive at a 1.5 is, obviously, not there. And a long as money strapped advertisers and equally insecure media time buyers are "afraid" to take chances, you can dream all you want about the next great format or formatics, and you'll be dead wrong.  Sorry. It's been proven. Time and time again.

With the competition and the choices out there, and with the economy now forever being noticed for not satisfying investors, let alone advertisers, the days of highly expensive "change" to find "what's new" are long gone ... and over.

And for the Sinatra analogy, and as a big fan ... who would love to see the days of WNEW again, the poster is right, you don't chase over 50 demos with huge loyalty brands forever in their "day" ... with the huge expense to get them to switch that loyalty.  It doesn't make sense, financially.  As a result, those "fomulae" of the past that worked when New York radio was half as big as today just don't ... and won't ... work anymore. 

Not unless the cost of doing business comes down.

And then, you have to consider where that audience ... both in the metro and in the sprawl of the suburbs will come from.

Radio has done a lot of dumb things and lost it's control to influence the masses.  The ideas of "fearful" New Rock versus "Modern Rock" ... even "Country" have no basis for consideration today in this market or in this economy. And more change will come as the 'CBS-FMs of the world, though doing better now than in the last few years as "Jack" will see, as those dying away 50+ audiences of the 50s, 60s & 70s either become further "irrelevant" or just not productive enough in regaining return on investment, you'll see that format quickly die as well ... to "Classics of the mid 80s through the 90s."  Same with Hot A/C ... as it melds into CHR, which already is boring.

The best thing: Sunset AM, force change to FM and start thinning out the number of frequency choices there are.  Radio proves each day that "more isn't less" ... it's the other way around.  Being #80 in New York is not different than being #20.  They both make no money to survive in this day and age.  

Advertisers are a fearful bunch.  They don't advertise in droves on controversy .... whether it's Imus or on any format. Especially non-mass appeal, unfamiliar, tight playlisted, niche-formatted stations ... no matter how "good" we may think they are.

It's "about the Benjamins" ... it truly is.  Not about taking chances. It's the ones with the gold (those paying the bills) who make or break a format. Not the listeners. Unfortunately, it always has been that way, we just didn't accept it as that. If an advertiser doesn't like you ... he won't buy you, unless you and the market can prove different. And if you're out of the top 20, you can best give it up, unless you don't need money to survive.

 

[TheBigA]

It's "about the Benjamins" ... it truly is. Not about taking chances. It's the ones with the gold (those paying the bills) who make or break a format. Not the listeners.

I agree with a lot of this.

But it's hard to talk about the problems with music radio without talking about the music. Let's face it. The music industry doesn't operate under the same pressures as radio. In the old days, they had small rosters, and everyone had to sell a million or more to stay on the label. Now, no one sells a million, so they've been forced to increase rosters. More and more artists in more and more subgenres, all appealing to smaller and smaller fan bases. This is not good for radio programmers, because there aren't many artists they can build formats around. There may be a few selected songs, and they can combine those songs with familiar hits, but there is no artist development. So if you're launching a new rock radio station, who do you build the station around? Who are your big draws? And how often can you do things with them that will make your station more than a music box?

I was watching the MTV Awards, and they trotted out a lot of artists I’ve never heard of. Same thing with Jimmy Falon and the late night TV shows. That works for them, but radio needs to have artists with a repertoire, and the artists who’ve come along in the last ten years for the most part don’t. You’ve got lots of one-hit wonders. So these stations rely on U2 or the other heritage folks to provide familiarity, and it gets attacked as boring and predictable. But what choice do these guys have?

Radio isn’t going to get better as long as the music industry continues to churn out a bunch of nameless faceless people singing songs that all sound the same. There’s no demand for the music, as seen by the falling CD sales figures, and it’s hurting radio.

 

[oaktree]

Correct ... and especially at the prices the labels still think they can get.

Not in a download world ... legally or illegally.  That cow is already out of the barn. 

Going to $.79 a download, $.49 a download or for a "premium" download of $1.29 isn't going "to get it." Not in this day and age.

And as pointed out, the glut of "new" but not mass appeal music, and that not so "mass" anymore from the "so called stars" is makin it tougher for both consumers (who aren't enthralled with the music offerings made,) and the labels (who can't recoup an investment on promotion when there is so much out there.)

And then, you've got that nasty licensing thing ...

 

[stationless listener]

Yeah, the moment I heard some chick sing a remake of a Bryan Adams song, I knew something's wrong with music today.

 

[buffalotom]

And what's wrong with covering Bryan Adams? The guy wrote nothing but HIT songs!!

Take a look at covers that have become hits in the past ten years.

Maybe I'll start a new thread. Cover songs that shouldn't have become hits but did.

Alien Ant Farm's "Smooth Criminal" comes to mind.

 

[John Waywoods]

Judging people's taste is a waste of time. The audiences like what they like and what they don't disappears- bye bye.

 

[oasisrulz]

There was the same problem here in Philly, Rock is dead, Alternative is gone, Country and Standards are out....It went so far as a lite station going Spanish.....well the people proved them wrong, this so called Spanish format failed miserably and was replaced with an Alternative format which has been in the high 4's ever since. The heritage rocker is in the same category high 4's same with the Classic Rocker, we do have a loser in YSP but they just don't have any idea what is going on the with rock format and do not seem to care....The Country station is doing fantastic and the new Standards on AM with a 8 mile radius signal is starting to catch fire.....Bottom line I think NYC can support a hard rocker, an Alternative, a Standards and a Country format with no problem. No matter with the dentist says, he is not an expert, the suits try to dictate what is hot and they are full of it.....bring on those formats and watch the results if they are done proper....

 

[oaktree]

And who brings on the "revenue" to pay for it? You missed the point. It's about "business." Sorry. It's not about "format" or "New York supporting" anything. It's about a massive cume, higher average quarter hours and advertisers not thin enough financially to go deeper than two, three or four formats or stations. And it's is about 80 stations fighting for the same slice of pie.

The "suits" have gotten it wrong, but formats were only part of it. They didn't see the technology coming nor the impact of it ... and the fact that it was the young demos who not only accepted it, but took advertisers flocked to the Internet, to cellphones, to "music players," to texting, Pandora, Slacker and more and beyond to be a part with them ... leaving radio behind. The change in the economy won't change it either. There is little reason to come back to radio now, as the choices are too many in both radio and in affordable technology that is truly interactive and "in touch."

It won't get cheaper to run radio stations, jobs in radio won't be the same and formatting will become as consolidated as radio stations will continue to be ... in an effort to get "the most," not the "least." Or, there will be a risk of survivability. And we see that now ...

 

[buffalotom]

Note to AwfuleBeatlesRipOffBandRulz....

Philly AIN'T NYC. Anybody that tries to agrue "what works here will work there" is a fool.

Oh sure... NYC will soak up a halfassed Alt station (with two canned DJ's covering 12 hours) and Country! PUH-LEASE!

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