Tavis Smiley Buys KBLA

[davideduardo]

There are a lot of reasons why AA failed. This isn't about political ideology. When Rush is placed on a station that is all syndicated, as is the case at KEIB or in San Francisco or Boston, he gets less than 1 share. For conservative talk to get good ratings, it needs a local element. In this case, Tavis appears to be doing this in order to originate his own local talk show. Not simply offer a satellite service.

Part of that situation is that the second talk station in a market is usually an inferior signal.

Take LA: 1150 has a poor signal in the San Fernando Valley and in the OC and even in eastern San Gabriel Valley areas. Guess where the Red zones in the market are?

 

[Delete My Account]

You're not hearing the examples on the radio to begin with. That's part of the point.

I listened to talk radio when WLS had everyone from Don Wade & Roma to Rush to Jay Marvin. WSB had Mike Molloy, Neil Boortz (libertarian) and Clark Howard (finance.) There were still liberals on WABC. John Earling was in mornings at KRMG in Tulsa.

So the point, again, is that liberal hosts can and have succeeded on terrestrial radio. So the thought that suddenly, there are no liberals talented or capable enough to do talk radio in 2020 is extremely unlikely to be the case.

If the point is the format is now "conservative" talk and that's the only feasible format, that's a valid position. But it doesn't change the fact that if your average talk station got a demo from a liberal host - or a moderate one - regardless of talent, they would not be given a shot at the majority of talk stations. Because they have the "wrong" ideology.

One of the best examples I can think of is Brian Joyce at WGOW in Chattanooga. My impression of him is he's a left leaning, but not entirely in with the PC crowd type of guy. When he was put on the air in Atlanta, he tried to moderate his presentation and be less opinionated (it sounded like) to try and fit on a station with often very abrasive hosts from the right - Kimmer, Shannon Burke, etc. They took shots at him on air anyways, and he was less entertaining than he was on WGOW or on Twitter. The show was removed from Atlanta.

Was Joyce non talented? Far from it. He's excellent. But he held back to try and fit into a station where you could be ideologically outrageous on the right, but got called out by the other hosts for even presenting as a moderate. That isn't a level playing field.

Talk radio used to be a format where entertaining people mixed it up. Rush, Boortz, Marvin, all big personalities who could spar with callers and had divergent views. Modern talk radio is, with a few heritage stations excepted, not a place for moderates or liberals of any flavor.

Doesn't make them all talentless hacks who can't do good radio. We know from history they can.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

How about the topic of this thread: Tavis Smiley. The fact that he has to buy a radio station in order to present his views.

Nobody has kept Tavis Smiley and his views off of the airwaves. If anything his views were subsidized on liberal PBS who wanted to bring in more voices "of color" (as if colors have voices, but I digress) and went out of their way to make sure his voice was heard. But just like Al, he has some "sexual misconduct" issues and was accused by multiple employees of "creating a verbally abusive and threatening environment" Again, don't take my word for it, here is what Wikipedia says:

On December 13, 2017, PBS indefinitely suspended distribution of the show after an investigation discovered allegations of sexual misconduct. Smiley is accused of engaging in sexual relationships with multiple employees as well as "creating a verbally abusive and threatening environment.

So yeah, like Al, nobody wants a sexual pervert with misconduct issues who creates an abusive environment for the other employees of the company. THAT is why he has to buy his own station to get his voice heard. I'd say nice try, but it isn't even that.

 

[TheBigA]

Nobody has kept Tavis Smiley and his views off of the airwaves.

What kind of success do you think he'd have if he approached KFI with a show? Or someone with his POV?

 

[TheBigA]

Part of that situation is that the second talk station in a market is usually an inferior signal.

And yet that seems to get overlooked when people bring up the failure of AA.

 

[Delete My Account]

Another footnote to the signal issues discussion - 92.1 in Madison did a decent job with progressive talk on FM.

Inevitably, people will say "But it's Madison.." but that's part of the point. In the right markets, on the right signal, it was feasible. But the syndicated offerings have dwindled and the budget and will wasn't there to rebuild locally. 92.1 was a starting point for a successful local duo that moved onto their own station, but the pandemic destroyed their revenues and expansion into Milwaukee.

Maybe progressive and liberal talk (and I would include moderates in this as well) just don't have a place on talk radio the way it's done in 2020. But the takeaway from that is NOT that there's a lack of talent based on ideology. There's some liberals that are truly great radio talents, and there's some third tier syndicated conservative talkers that are awful.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

What kind of success do you think he'd have if he approached KFI with a show? Or someone with his POV?

Or his employment record?

 

[davideduardo]

And yet that seems to get overlooked when people bring up the failure of AA.

But we can use some examples of good signals, such as KGW in Portland or WINZ in Miami. Portland, a progressive town if there ever was one, did very well for about a year and a half, and then it sort of crumbled. I was not a regular listener, so I can't compare the first year with later years so I do not know if this was a programming change or just folks getting tired of what I saw as too high an intensity level.

In Miami, the station never got traction, likely because the market was 1) over half Cuban and other Latin American refugees from socialist nations and 2) traditionally more conservative.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

What kind of success do you think he'd have if he approached KFI with a show? Or someone with his POV?

Mr. KABC (Marc Germain) strikes me as a left-of-center guy who always found a spot on KABC even in their most hard core conservative days. And as I said earlier, before he came along, KABC had Stephanie Miller on at 7:00 pm following conservative libertarian Larry Elder. Stephanie is very liberal and absolutely has a face for TV and not radio, so I always wondered what she was doing there.

 

[TheBigA]

Or his employment record?

Given the track record of people like O'Reilly and Ailes, I doubt it would be an issue.

But consider Michael Medved. He's a long established talker, but he's not sufficiently trumpy. So he got replaced by Sebastian Gorka, who had zero radio experience for no other reason than he was a trumpite. That's what we're talking about.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

But we can use some examples of good signals, such as KGW in Portland or WINZ in Miami. Portland, a progressive town if there ever was one, did very well for about a year and a half, and then it sort of crumbled. I was not a regular listener, so I can't compare the first year with later years so I do not know if this was a programming change or just folks getting tired of what I saw as too high an intensity level.

In Miami, the station never got traction, likely because the market was 1) over half Cuban and other Latin American refugees from socialist nations and 2) traditionally more conservative.

It is always amazing how the people that have actually had to live under socialism are conservatives. Try selling the socialism bit to the OC Asian community, especially the Vietnamese and see how far you get.

 

[TheBigA]

It is always amazing how the people that have actually had to live under socialism are conservatives. Try selling the socialism bit to the OC Asian community, especially the Vietnamese and see how far you get.

You're confusing progressive, liberal, and socialism. They're not all the same.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

You're confusing progressive, liberal, and socialism. They're not all the same.

There are eleven different types of eucalyptus trees. They are not all the same, there are differences between each, but at the end of the day, they are all eucalyptus trees.

Again, try explaining the differences you speak of to the OC Vietnamese community.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Given the track record of people like O'Reilly and Ailes, I doubt it would be an issue.

But consider Michael Medved. He's a long established talker, but he's not sufficiently trumpy. So he got replaced by Sebastian Gorka, who had zero radio experience for no other reason than he was a trumpite. That's what we're talking about.

Roger Ailes was toxic when he was forced out of Fox, same with O'Reilly, but not for their politics, for their "indiscretions", same as Al and Tavis and others such as Matt Lauer. One of the tiny alt-conservative news channels hired O'Reilly, but only because they were so attention starved they needed a name, any name, to be associated with them. Once they achieve any level of respectable audience growth, they will ditch him too, because on a large scale, he is bad for business (Plus the man has aged considerably since he left - I think there have been some long days and nights lamenting at the bar - yikes, he is about as frail as Biden!)

 

[TheBigA]

Roger Ailes was toxic when he was forced out of Fox, same with O'Reilly, but not for their politics

Another recent example is VB In The Middle, who was blown out of WRKO Boston a few weeks ago and replaced by a disciple of conservative talker Howie Carr.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Another recent example is VB In The Middle, who was blown out of WRKO Boston a few weeks ago and replaced by a disciple of conservative talker Howie Carr.

I have no idea who "VB In the Middle" is, but Howie Carr is a long-time successful radio host in the Boston/New England area. Unless other evidence is presented, I can only assume that is a smart step-up for WRKO.

 

[TheBigA]

I have no idea who "VB In the Middle" is, but Howie Carr is a long-time successful radio host in the Boston/New England area. Unless other evidence is presented, I can only assume that is a smart step-up for WRKO.

VB was also a Howie Carr disciple and former producer, but was not viewed as conservative enough, so he was replaced.

As mentioned, to be on talk radio today, there is only one acceptable viewpoint allowed.

 

[davideduardo]

It is always amazing how the people that have actually had to live under socialism are conservatives. Try selling the socialism bit to the OC Asian community, especially the Vietnamese and see how far you get.

I've worked under dictatorships, military juntas, socialists, Peronists, pro- and anti- statehood partisans and a variety of governments that defied definition. Even governments influenced or controlled by cartels. The only places where there was some degree of progress and stability was under moderate conservatives with more open social attitudes... in other words, social liberals and economic conservatives.

Neither the governments like the US' Tea Party faction nor the ones like the Sanders / Ocasio progressives ever succeeded and in many places led to the traditional coup d'etat or disintegration of the economy and social structure.

Keeping this thread about radio, my experience is that where the governments have been unstable, dictatorial or very "progressive" stations are often silenced, censored, confiscated or burnt to the ground with military flame throwers (this happened to a station I was consulting in Panama under the Noriega regime).

 

[ChannelFlipper]

VB was also a Howie Carr disciple and former producer, but was not viewed as conservative enough, so he was replaced.

As mentioned, to be on talk radio today, there is only one acceptable viewpoint allowed.

My assumption (subject to correction by those more in the know) is that Howie probably gets higher and more consistent ratings than "VB". Thus (and I shouldn't have to tell you and David this) it sounds like the main consideration is, as usual, ratings and revenue, not who is more conservative. *

The idea that radio execs are in their offices saying "our guy is not conservative enough, we need a rock-ribbed conservative like Hannity for our station, regardless of revenue" is beyond ridiculous.

And to hear you guys go on, anyone to the left of Wally George simply can't a gig in this industry. What about Micheal Smirconish? He is a milquetoast conservative if ever there was one, but he is very popular in Pennsylvania and I believe is syndicated. Jon and Ken aren't even that conservative, I consider them to be more populists, same with Bill Handel. There are plenty of others like all of them.

* I just re-read the thread and the first person who brought this up said VB was replaced by a "disciple of Howie", not Howie himself. I misread that. The points I made though are still valid: if they think the Howie disciple can get better ratings that the middle guy they have now, it is still a dollars and sense business decision, not a political one. These stations are run by profit-seeking corporations, not policy-influencing parties.

 

[TheBigA]

The idea that radio execs are in their offices saying "our guy is not conservative enough, we need a rock-ribbed conservative like Hannity for our station, regardless of revenue" is beyond ridiculous.

No one says "regardless of revenue." The view is the way to maximize revenue is through narrow ideology. It's like a top 40 station narrowing the playlist to improve ratings.