There have been many posts about the growing number of stations and translators that carry K-Love's music format. It also seems however that there's an equally growing number of stations and translators that are picking up a preaching & teaching format to broadcast. Do more people listen to that format now than used to back in the '80s & '90s?
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teaching format growing?
- Thread starter MightyFrenchman
- Start date
G
GaryThompson
Guest
I'm not sure.
We've all seen and heard the numbers supporting the exponential growth of Christian radio. We know that music is a large (chief) part of those numbers.
But does anyone know how much of that (if any)is teaching/talk?
Here's are some other thoughts just off the top of my head...
Salem is probably largely responsible for a good share of any new teaching/talk numbers, at least in the larger metro's. Along with their music stations, they've acquired alot of new AM sticks in these large cities. Some of these metro's were without Christian teaching/talk before the Salem acquistions. So if this format has grown, these Salem properties probably contribute.
Also a possibility is the wide availability of Christian teaching/talk formats on Sattelite radio. Again, I have no research or hard data. Just throwing out ideas.
Thoughts?
> There have been many posts about the growing number of
> stations and translators that carry K-Love's music format.
> It also seems however that there's an equally growing number
> of stations and translators that are picking up a preaching
> & teaching format to broadcast. Do more people listen to
> that format now than used to back in the '80s & '90s?
>
We've all seen and heard the numbers supporting the exponential growth of Christian radio. We know that music is a large (chief) part of those numbers.
But does anyone know how much of that (if any)is teaching/talk?
Here's are some other thoughts just off the top of my head...
Salem is probably largely responsible for a good share of any new teaching/talk numbers, at least in the larger metro's. Along with their music stations, they've acquired alot of new AM sticks in these large cities. Some of these metro's were without Christian teaching/talk before the Salem acquistions. So if this format has grown, these Salem properties probably contribute.
Also a possibility is the wide availability of Christian teaching/talk formats on Sattelite radio. Again, I have no research or hard data. Just throwing out ideas.
Thoughts?
> There have been many posts about the growing number of
> stations and translators that carry K-Love's music format.
> It also seems however that there's an equally growing number
> of stations and translators that are picking up a preaching
> & teaching format to broadcast. Do more people listen to
> that format now than used to back in the '80s & '90s?
>
R
RDP
Guest
> I'm not sure.
>
> We've all seen and heard the numbers supporting the
> exponential growth of Christian radio. We know that music is
> a large (chief) part of those numbers.
>
> But does anyone know how much of that (if any)is
> teaching/talk?
>
> Here's are some other thoughts just off the top of my
> head...
>
> Salem is probably largely responsible for a good share of
> any new teaching/talk numbers, at least in the larger
> metro's. Along with their music stations, they've acquired
> alot of new AM sticks in these large cities. Some of these
> metro's were without Christian teaching/talk before the
> Salem acquistions. So if this format has grown, these Salem
> properties probably contribute.
>
> Also a possibility is the wide availability of Christian
> teaching/talk formats on Sattelite radio. Again, I have no
> research or hard data. Just throwing out ideas.
>
> Thoughts?
>
Christian Radio is still growing. American Family Radio has many new CP's to build, throughout America. Moody also has some, as well. Many Christian radio networks and small independent ministries, are wanting to build in new places.
I am of the belief that God's Word will never die. (Isaiah 40.8) The harder someone tries to stop it, the faster it will get out. Paul was a great example of what I am saying. He persecuted the Church and reaked havoc on it. Instead of defeating the Church, he caused it to expand from Jerusalem to the ends of the earth.
After Paul got saved on that Damacus Road, he was responsible for helping to spread the Gospel, to countless numbers of people. Thank God the Gospel didn't stay in Jerusalem. Had it occured, they would have been the only recipents of this important message.
It took an act of Persecution, to get the Gospel out, to the ends of the earth. When someone attacks Christian Radio and other media, that promotes it, those outlets will only get bigger and add more stations and/or resources to their numbers.
The harder someone persecutes the real Church of God, the faster it will expand and add to its ever increasing numbers.
Thank God that the His Church is still alive and doing well. Can't no Devil from Hell prevail against it and the agents that are helping to promote its timeless message, to the mass public.
RDP <><
P.S. It wouldn't suprise me, if many more Christian media outlets, were to debue within the next year or two. God is still working miracles, signs, and wonders to this world and nation. He is not finished with planet earth yet. Some may think, that all is hopeless but I don't see it that way. Christianity will never lose its influence on this world or come to an end. When I think of those two things, that keeps me very excited.
>
> We've all seen and heard the numbers supporting the
> exponential growth of Christian radio. We know that music is
> a large (chief) part of those numbers.
>
> But does anyone know how much of that (if any)is
> teaching/talk?
>
> Here's are some other thoughts just off the top of my
> head...
>
> Salem is probably largely responsible for a good share of
> any new teaching/talk numbers, at least in the larger
> metro's. Along with their music stations, they've acquired
> alot of new AM sticks in these large cities. Some of these
> metro's were without Christian teaching/talk before the
> Salem acquistions. So if this format has grown, these Salem
> properties probably contribute.
>
> Also a possibility is the wide availability of Christian
> teaching/talk formats on Sattelite radio. Again, I have no
> research or hard data. Just throwing out ideas.
>
> Thoughts?
>
Christian Radio is still growing. American Family Radio has many new CP's to build, throughout America. Moody also has some, as well. Many Christian radio networks and small independent ministries, are wanting to build in new places.
I am of the belief that God's Word will never die. (Isaiah 40.8) The harder someone tries to stop it, the faster it will get out. Paul was a great example of what I am saying. He persecuted the Church and reaked havoc on it. Instead of defeating the Church, he caused it to expand from Jerusalem to the ends of the earth.
After Paul got saved on that Damacus Road, he was responsible for helping to spread the Gospel, to countless numbers of people. Thank God the Gospel didn't stay in Jerusalem. Had it occured, they would have been the only recipents of this important message.
It took an act of Persecution, to get the Gospel out, to the ends of the earth. When someone attacks Christian Radio and other media, that promotes it, those outlets will only get bigger and add more stations and/or resources to their numbers.
The harder someone persecutes the real Church of God, the faster it will expand and add to its ever increasing numbers.
Thank God that the His Church is still alive and doing well. Can't no Devil from Hell prevail against it and the agents that are helping to promote its timeless message, to the mass public.
RDP <><
P.S. It wouldn't suprise me, if many more Christian media outlets, were to debue within the next year or two. God is still working miracles, signs, and wonders to this world and nation. He is not finished with planet earth yet. Some may think, that all is hopeless but I don't see it that way. Christianity will never lose its influence on this world or come to an end. When I think of those two things, that keeps me very excited.
R
rbrucecarter
Guest
My thoughts on this.
(1) Teaching and talk are NOT equivalent. They are completely different, appealing to different audiences.
(2) I have always had a bit of an uneasy feeling about teaching radio. I believe it can encourage people to abandon regular church attendance - it is too easy to just stay home and listen. It is nice when you are sick or something if your preacher is on the air, but how many people get lazy and tune in, then tune in less and less, and finally don't bother at all. Worship is a shared experience in the church. It ought to "cost something" to go - people used to load up a wagon in the cold, get the horses, and go several miles to worship. Ironically, the easier it is, the less people bother. The golf course bekons.
(3) Teaching radio appeals almost exclusively to the saved. It has little evangelical value. People do not, as a rule, get saved over the radio. They get saved in a church, as a result of personal interaction and the whole church experience. You hear the stories of people saved by something they hear on the radio, but I often wonder if those stories are pretty much all there are.
(4) Conservative talk does seem to be growing as a format, just as Air America is dying in the ratings. It is a good opportunity for reaching out. But - you are reaching an older demographic that is much less likely to convert to Christianity. If I had a single station, and an evangelical mindset - it would be Christian rock. Because young people are the demographic most likely to convert to Christ, and the least reached by churches and Christian radio at the moment.
(1) Teaching and talk are NOT equivalent. They are completely different, appealing to different audiences.
(2) I have always had a bit of an uneasy feeling about teaching radio. I believe it can encourage people to abandon regular church attendance - it is too easy to just stay home and listen. It is nice when you are sick or something if your preacher is on the air, but how many people get lazy and tune in, then tune in less and less, and finally don't bother at all. Worship is a shared experience in the church. It ought to "cost something" to go - people used to load up a wagon in the cold, get the horses, and go several miles to worship. Ironically, the easier it is, the less people bother. The golf course bekons.
(3) Teaching radio appeals almost exclusively to the saved. It has little evangelical value. People do not, as a rule, get saved over the radio. They get saved in a church, as a result of personal interaction and the whole church experience. You hear the stories of people saved by something they hear on the radio, but I often wonder if those stories are pretty much all there are.
(4) Conservative talk does seem to be growing as a format, just as Air America is dying in the ratings. It is a good opportunity for reaching out. But - you are reaching an older demographic that is much less likely to convert to Christianity. If I had a single station, and an evangelical mindset - it would be Christian rock. Because young people are the demographic most likely to convert to Christ, and the least reached by churches and Christian radio at the moment.
> (4) Conservative talk does seem to be growing as a format,
> just as Air America is dying in the ratings. >>
Salem has replaced a number of their preaching/teaching stations to their own 24 hour conservative talk format. If you look at ratings across the country, their ratings are no better than the Air America stations. The established news/talk stations carrying the name syndicated shows dominate the format.
The Salem shows don't really promote Christian themes other than general moral themes on current events topics. If they really wanted to spread the Christian message they would go back to Christian programming, but it seems like they tried to take advantage of the popularity of talk radio to make more money. So far it's not working tto well.
> just as Air America is dying in the ratings. >>
Salem has replaced a number of their preaching/teaching stations to their own 24 hour conservative talk format. If you look at ratings across the country, their ratings are no better than the Air America stations. The established news/talk stations carrying the name syndicated shows dominate the format.
The Salem shows don't really promote Christian themes other than general moral themes on current events topics. If they really wanted to spread the Christian message they would go back to Christian programming, but it seems like they tried to take advantage of the popularity of talk radio to make more money. So far it's not working tto well.
> If I had a single station, and an evangelical
> mindset - it would be Christian rock. Because young people
> are the demographic most likely to convert to Christ, and
> the least reached by churches and Christian radio at the
> moment.
>
Don't get me wrong, I love Christian Pop and Rock and Hiphop, but as long as no one will $$$ support it, I dont think we'll see a big spike in Christian Rock or HipHop stations, Programmers seem to be going with Christian AC or Talk formats that can bring in the ad dollars. Most teaching stations left charge for programming so they are making money that way.
--Matt
<P ID="signature">______________
Program Director/Music Director
X Music Online
The X
Today's Best Music
http://www.xmusiconline.com/</P>
> mindset - it would be Christian rock. Because young people
> are the demographic most likely to convert to Christ, and
> the least reached by churches and Christian radio at the
> moment.
>
Don't get me wrong, I love Christian Pop and Rock and Hiphop, but as long as no one will $$$ support it, I dont think we'll see a big spike in Christian Rock or HipHop stations, Programmers seem to be going with Christian AC or Talk formats that can bring in the ad dollars. Most teaching stations left charge for programming so they are making money that way.
--Matt
<P ID="signature">______________
Program Director/Music Director
X Music Online
The X
Today's Best Music
http://www.xmusiconline.com/</P>
R
radioelizabeth
Guest
?
Bruce Carter wrote:
"I have always had a bit of an uneasy feeling about teaching radio. I believe it can encourage people to abandon regular church attendance - it is too easy to just stay home and listen."
I have NEVER heard any broadcast teacher encourage using their program as a substitute for regular church attendance. In fact, I hear the exact opposite. Most of these programs are recorded IN CHURCH and present an atmosphere where fellowship is esteemed and promoted.
"Teaching radio appeals almost exclusively to the saved. It has little evangelical value. People do not, as a rule, get saved over the radio. They get saved in a church, as a result of personal interaction and the whole church experience. You hear the stories of people saved by something they hear on the radio, but I often wonder if those stories are pretty much all there are."
People get saved through personal interaction and the whole church experience? Really? I'd LOVE to see the stats on that one. Because I can think of quite a few folks whose whole church experience are the reason they have no desire to even talk about God. I'm just saying...
People get saved BY GOD with WHATEVER means HE wants to use. And YES...that includes teaching programs, music, and relating to a jock. Of course, not as a rule...because THERE ARE NO FORMULAS.
Obviously the primary use of teaching is to edify the Body.
"Because young people are the demographic most likely to convert to Christ, and the least reached by ... Christian radio at the moment."
And here is the irony... if people, as a rule, don't get saved over the radio...then why the passion to reach these lost through that medium?
<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
Bruce Carter wrote:
"I have always had a bit of an uneasy feeling about teaching radio. I believe it can encourage people to abandon regular church attendance - it is too easy to just stay home and listen."
I have NEVER heard any broadcast teacher encourage using their program as a substitute for regular church attendance. In fact, I hear the exact opposite. Most of these programs are recorded IN CHURCH and present an atmosphere where fellowship is esteemed and promoted.
"Teaching radio appeals almost exclusively to the saved. It has little evangelical value. People do not, as a rule, get saved over the radio. They get saved in a church, as a result of personal interaction and the whole church experience. You hear the stories of people saved by something they hear on the radio, but I often wonder if those stories are pretty much all there are."
People get saved through personal interaction and the whole church experience? Really? I'd LOVE to see the stats on that one. Because I can think of quite a few folks whose whole church experience are the reason they have no desire to even talk about God. I'm just saying...
People get saved BY GOD with WHATEVER means HE wants to use. And YES...that includes teaching programs, music, and relating to a jock. Of course, not as a rule...because THERE ARE NO FORMULAS.
Obviously the primary use of teaching is to edify the Body.
"Because young people are the demographic most likely to convert to Christ, and the least reached by ... Christian radio at the moment."
And here is the irony... if people, as a rule, don't get saved over the radio...then why the passion to reach these lost through that medium?
<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
> > (4) Conservative talk does seem to be growing as a
> format,
> > just as Air America is dying in the ratings. >>
>
> Salem has replaced a number of their preaching/teaching
> stations to their own 24 hour conservative talk format. If
> you look at ratings across the country, their ratings are no
> better than the Air America stations. The established
> news/talk stations carrying the name syndicated shows
> dominate the format.
> The Salem shows don't really promote Christian themes other
> than general moral themes on current events topics. If they
> really wanted to spread the Christian message they would go
> back to Christian programming, but it seems like they tried
> to take advantage of the popularity of talk radio to make
> more money. So far it's not working tto well.
>
I'm not sure that's entirely true. In Phoenix, Salem has two AM stations. One is their Salem talk affiliate, and the other has almost exclusively teaching programs. It seems Salem tries to do both when feasible. I imagine in some markets they have a teaching AM and a Fish FM, or a Talk AM and Fish FM, or some other permutations depending on the market. Salem uses market research, so I'm sure they try to tailor their offerings accordingly.
I will say this for Salem: Their teaching stations generally program solid, orthodox viewpoints - no charlatans. Their talk stations do program morally-grounded, if not Christian, commentators. Praeger and Medved are Jewish, Hugh Hewitt is a Christian.
In Phoenix, the talk affiliate shows up in the book, albeit with a small audience. The teaching station doesn't show up, but it must be performing well enough to keep it going. Salem keeps local costs relatively low without being cheap and their business model presumably works.
I know of many religious broadcasters who simply throw preacher tapes on the air and couldn't care less what those preachers say. They could be nutcases, rip-off artists, truly wonderful teachers, or some mix thereof. At least Salem tries for quality in each of its formats and attempts to reach a broader audience.
As for Salem taking some teaching stations off and replacing them with talk, it's very possible - though I don't know - that some markets already had a quality teaching station, so Salem wanted to fill a talk niche instead. Just sayin...
> format,
> > just as Air America is dying in the ratings. >>
>
> Salem has replaced a number of their preaching/teaching
> stations to their own 24 hour conservative talk format. If
> you look at ratings across the country, their ratings are no
> better than the Air America stations. The established
> news/talk stations carrying the name syndicated shows
> dominate the format.
> The Salem shows don't really promote Christian themes other
> than general moral themes on current events topics. If they
> really wanted to spread the Christian message they would go
> back to Christian programming, but it seems like they tried
> to take advantage of the popularity of talk radio to make
> more money. So far it's not working tto well.
>
I'm not sure that's entirely true. In Phoenix, Salem has two AM stations. One is their Salem talk affiliate, and the other has almost exclusively teaching programs. It seems Salem tries to do both when feasible. I imagine in some markets they have a teaching AM and a Fish FM, or a Talk AM and Fish FM, or some other permutations depending on the market. Salem uses market research, so I'm sure they try to tailor their offerings accordingly.
I will say this for Salem: Their teaching stations generally program solid, orthodox viewpoints - no charlatans. Their talk stations do program morally-grounded, if not Christian, commentators. Praeger and Medved are Jewish, Hugh Hewitt is a Christian.
In Phoenix, the talk affiliate shows up in the book, albeit with a small audience. The teaching station doesn't show up, but it must be performing well enough to keep it going. Salem keeps local costs relatively low without being cheap and their business model presumably works.
I know of many religious broadcasters who simply throw preacher tapes on the air and couldn't care less what those preachers say. They could be nutcases, rip-off artists, truly wonderful teachers, or some mix thereof. At least Salem tries for quality in each of its formats and attempts to reach a broader audience.
As for Salem taking some teaching stations off and replacing them with talk, it's very possible - though I don't know - that some markets already had a quality teaching station, so Salem wanted to fill a talk niche instead. Just sayin...
C
ccmfan
Guest
> > > (4) Conservative talk does seem to be growing as a
> > format,
> > > just as Air America is dying in the ratings. >>
> >
> > Salem has replaced a number of their preaching/teaching
> > stations to their own 24 hour conservative talk format.
> If
> > you look at ratings across the country, their ratings are
> no
> > better than the Air America stations. The established
> > news/talk stations carrying the name syndicated shows
> > dominate the format.
> > The Salem shows don't really promote Christian themes
> other
> > than general moral themes on current events topics. If
> they
> > really wanted to spread the Christian message they would
> go
> > back to Christian programming, but it seems like they
> tried
> > to take advantage of the popularity of talk radio to make
> > more money. So far it's not working tto well.
> >
>
> I'm not sure that's entirely true. In Phoenix, Salem has
> two AM stations. One is their Salem talk affiliate, and the
> other has almost exclusively teaching programs. It seems
> Salem tries to do both when feasible. I imagine in some
> markets they have a teaching AM and a Fish FM, or a Talk AM
> and Fish FM, or some other permutations depending on the
> market. Salem uses market research, so I'm sure they try to
> tailor their offerings accordingly.
>
> I will say this for Salem: Their teaching stations
> generally program solid, orthodox viewpoints - no
> charlatans. Their talk stations do program
> morally-grounded, if not Christian, commentators. Praeger
> and Medved are Jewish, Hugh Hewitt is a Christian.
>
> In Phoenix, the talk affiliate shows up in the book, albeit
> with a small audience. The teaching station doesn't show
> up, but it must be performing well enough to keep it going.
> Salem keeps local costs relatively low without being cheap
> and their business model presumably works.
>
> I know of many religious broadcasters who simply throw
> preacher tapes on the air and couldn't care less what those
> preachers say. They could be nutcases, rip-off artists,
> truly wonderful teachers, or some mix thereof. At least
> Salem tries for quality in each of its formats and attempts
> to reach a broader audience.
>
> As for Salem taking some teaching stations off and replacing
> them with talk, it's very possible - though I don't know -
> that some markets already had a quality teaching station, so
> Salem wanted to fill a talk niche instead. Just sayin...
>
For the most part Bott Broadcasting has good quality programming as well. Occasionally they've had some people who I thought were too conspiracy oriented, but at least they don't allow anyone on who flashes money in their face like a lot of Dollar a Holler stations that claim to be Christian do.
> > format,
> > > just as Air America is dying in the ratings. >>
> >
> > Salem has replaced a number of their preaching/teaching
> > stations to their own 24 hour conservative talk format.
> If
> > you look at ratings across the country, their ratings are
> no
> > better than the Air America stations. The established
> > news/talk stations carrying the name syndicated shows
> > dominate the format.
> > The Salem shows don't really promote Christian themes
> other
> > than general moral themes on current events topics. If
> they
> > really wanted to spread the Christian message they would
> go
> > back to Christian programming, but it seems like they
> tried
> > to take advantage of the popularity of talk radio to make
> > more money. So far it's not working tto well.
> >
>
> I'm not sure that's entirely true. In Phoenix, Salem has
> two AM stations. One is their Salem talk affiliate, and the
> other has almost exclusively teaching programs. It seems
> Salem tries to do both when feasible. I imagine in some
> markets they have a teaching AM and a Fish FM, or a Talk AM
> and Fish FM, or some other permutations depending on the
> market. Salem uses market research, so I'm sure they try to
> tailor their offerings accordingly.
>
> I will say this for Salem: Their teaching stations
> generally program solid, orthodox viewpoints - no
> charlatans. Their talk stations do program
> morally-grounded, if not Christian, commentators. Praeger
> and Medved are Jewish, Hugh Hewitt is a Christian.
>
> In Phoenix, the talk affiliate shows up in the book, albeit
> with a small audience. The teaching station doesn't show
> up, but it must be performing well enough to keep it going.
> Salem keeps local costs relatively low without being cheap
> and their business model presumably works.
>
> I know of many religious broadcasters who simply throw
> preacher tapes on the air and couldn't care less what those
> preachers say. They could be nutcases, rip-off artists,
> truly wonderful teachers, or some mix thereof. At least
> Salem tries for quality in each of its formats and attempts
> to reach a broader audience.
>
> As for Salem taking some teaching stations off and replacing
> them with talk, it's very possible - though I don't know -
> that some markets already had a quality teaching station, so
> Salem wanted to fill a talk niche instead. Just sayin...
>
For the most part Bott Broadcasting has good quality programming as well. Occasionally they've had some people who I thought were too conspiracy oriented, but at least they don't allow anyone on who flashes money in their face like a lot of Dollar a Holler stations that claim to be Christian do.
R
rbrucecarter
Guest
Re: ?
> I have NEVER heard any broadcast teacher encourage using
> their program as a substitute for regular church attendance.
No listeners do that. I have never heard anybody suggesting it either. It just happens
> People get saved through personal interaction and the whole
> church experience? Really? I'd LOVE to see the stats on that
> one. Because I can think of quite a few folks whose whole
> church experience are the reason they have no desire to even
> talk about God. I'm just saying...
I agree there. There are a lot of toxic churches out there. I left a gossip church just a year ago. If I hadn't have been a Christian, I would have never become one based on their incompetent presentation through their actions.
And - here come the flames - we throw ourselves to the lowest common denominator of Christianity when we allow Creationism to be presented. That performs a pre-frontal lobotomy on Christianity scaring intellectuals right out of the faith.
> THERE
> ARE NO FORMULAS.
I can give you a bunch of formulas that do NOT work. And here is one you might have seen before from me:
Ratings = potential salvations = financial support
Like it or not, Christian radio is also a business. A business that has to make a profit or it will go under. Nobody listens and nobody sends in money to keep it going, or advertisers will go elsewhere. And if you don't have any listeners, nobody will get saved.
> Obviously the primary use of teaching is to edify the Body.
I am glad somebody besides me realizes that. Very few unsaved people choose to listen to Christian radio.
>> And here is the irony... if people, as a rule, don't get
> saved over the radio...then why the passion to reach these
> lost through that medium?
Preaching and teaching edifies the body. CCM / Christian rock entertains, relaxes, gets good ratings, and therefore is more effective at getting people saved.
> I have NEVER heard any broadcast teacher encourage using
> their program as a substitute for regular church attendance.
No listeners do that. I have never heard anybody suggesting it either. It just happens
> People get saved through personal interaction and the whole
> church experience? Really? I'd LOVE to see the stats on that
> one. Because I can think of quite a few folks whose whole
> church experience are the reason they have no desire to even
> talk about God. I'm just saying...
I agree there. There are a lot of toxic churches out there. I left a gossip church just a year ago. If I hadn't have been a Christian, I would have never become one based on their incompetent presentation through their actions.
And - here come the flames - we throw ourselves to the lowest common denominator of Christianity when we allow Creationism to be presented. That performs a pre-frontal lobotomy on Christianity scaring intellectuals right out of the faith.
> THERE
> ARE NO FORMULAS.
I can give you a bunch of formulas that do NOT work. And here is one you might have seen before from me:
Ratings = potential salvations = financial support
Like it or not, Christian radio is also a business. A business that has to make a profit or it will go under. Nobody listens and nobody sends in money to keep it going, or advertisers will go elsewhere. And if you don't have any listeners, nobody will get saved.
> Obviously the primary use of teaching is to edify the Body.
I am glad somebody besides me realizes that. Very few unsaved people choose to listen to Christian radio.
>> And here is the irony... if people, as a rule, don't get
> saved over the radio...then why the passion to reach these
> lost through that medium?
Preaching and teaching edifies the body. CCM / Christian rock entertains, relaxes, gets good ratings, and therefore is more effective at getting people saved.
N
neutral_observer
Guest
Re: ?
> And - here come the flames - ...
FLAME! FLAME! FLAME!
> ...we throw ourselves to the
> lowest common denominator of Christianity when we allow
> Creationism to be presented. That performs a pre-frontal
> lobotomy on Christianity scaring intellectuals right out of
> the faith.
I've noticed you saying that over and over of late, and I've resisted the bait to this point, but, with a fairly decent science background myself and a number of friends with much stronger backgrounds who are all also creationists, I just have to disagree completely. I have no idea what's motivated you to obsess over this lately.
People who are really interested can look into it. I daresay the logical and physical evidence for creation is significantly greater than the evidence for evolution, but, considering it has nothing to do with radio, let's not even think of getting into discussion here.
> And - here come the flames - ...
FLAME! FLAME! FLAME!
> ...we throw ourselves to the
> lowest common denominator of Christianity when we allow
> Creationism to be presented. That performs a pre-frontal
> lobotomy on Christianity scaring intellectuals right out of
> the faith.
I've noticed you saying that over and over of late, and I've resisted the bait to this point, but, with a fairly decent science background myself and a number of friends with much stronger backgrounds who are all also creationists, I just have to disagree completely. I have no idea what's motivated you to obsess over this lately.
People who are really interested can look into it. I daresay the logical and physical evidence for creation is significantly greater than the evidence for evolution, but, considering it has nothing to do with radio, let's not even think of getting into discussion here.
R
radioelizabeth
Guest
Re: ?
Bruce,
I don't disagree that Christian radio is business, sometimes mixed with ministry, sometimes not...
BUT your post knocked talk/teaching and presumed there was no evangelical use. You claimed it was church that saved people, not a song or story on the radio...at least that is what I gathered from your thread reply...
That's simply not true.
<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
Bruce,
I don't disagree that Christian radio is business, sometimes mixed with ministry, sometimes not...
BUT your post knocked talk/teaching and presumed there was no evangelical use. You claimed it was church that saved people, not a song or story on the radio...at least that is what I gathered from your thread reply...
That's simply not true.
<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
T
TimL
Guest
Re: ?
> Bruce,
>
> I don't disagree that Christian radio is business, sometimes
> mixed with ministry, sometimes not...
>
> BUT your post knocked talk/teaching and presumed there was
> no evangelical use. You claimed it was church that saved
> people, not a song or story on the radio...at least that is
> what I gathered from your thread reply...
>
> That's simply not true.
Agreed..There are many stories of teaching/ministry programs that have led folks to Salvation..I have listened to Christian radio for over 30 years and tire of those that seem to think that CCM/Christian Rock is the only avenue for young people or for anyone to be saved. Jesus does the saving and He can use anything or anyone He wishes to..whehter it's an 80 year old teacher/preacher who has been on the radio 50 years or a 25 year old CCM DJ..
(I keep telling myself I wont get involved in these discussions..LOL)
Tim Lones
> Bruce,
>
> I don't disagree that Christian radio is business, sometimes
> mixed with ministry, sometimes not...
>
> BUT your post knocked talk/teaching and presumed there was
> no evangelical use. You claimed it was church that saved
> people, not a song or story on the radio...at least that is
> what I gathered from your thread reply...
>
> That's simply not true.
Agreed..There are many stories of teaching/ministry programs that have led folks to Salvation..I have listened to Christian radio for over 30 years and tire of those that seem to think that CCM/Christian Rock is the only avenue for young people or for anyone to be saved. Jesus does the saving and He can use anything or anyone He wishes to..whehter it's an 80 year old teacher/preacher who has been on the radio 50 years or a 25 year old CCM DJ..
(I keep telling myself I wont get involved in these discussions..LOL)
Tim Lones
> "Orthodox" will always be in the eye or ear of the beholder
> since no one is ultimately in charge of protestantism.
>
I would respectfully disagree, and I'll keep this very brief since this is more about theology than radio, but...
Orthodox Christianity would best be defined as based on Scripture - the Bible alone. Yes, I know there are disputes about the Bible itself, but there must be an ultimate standard and the Bible is it.
Protestants do not have a Pope, but there are primary theological issues such as the divinity of Christ, the sufficiency of His atonement on the cross, the doctrine of the Trinity, etc., that are recognized by faithful protestants as tests of orthodoxy.
Back to radio: If you have a format in which you have teachers of dubious character who seem more interested in making a buck than teaching the Gospel, that would not be upholding orthodox Christianity. That would be selling out in the name of God; a sad, and timeworn, tradition.
> since no one is ultimately in charge of protestantism.
>
I would respectfully disagree, and I'll keep this very brief since this is more about theology than radio, but...
Orthodox Christianity would best be defined as based on Scripture - the Bible alone. Yes, I know there are disputes about the Bible itself, but there must be an ultimate standard and the Bible is it.
Protestants do not have a Pope, but there are primary theological issues such as the divinity of Christ, the sufficiency of His atonement on the cross, the doctrine of the Trinity, etc., that are recognized by faithful protestants as tests of orthodoxy.
Back to radio: If you have a format in which you have teachers of dubious character who seem more interested in making a buck than teaching the Gospel, that would not be upholding orthodox Christianity. That would be selling out in the name of God; a sad, and timeworn, tradition.
C
ccmfan
Guest
> Back to radio: If you have a format in which you have
> teachers of dubious character who seem more interested in
> making a buck than teaching the Gospel, that would not be
> upholding orthodox Christianity. That would be selling out
> in the name of God; a sad, and timeworn, tradition.
>
In many cases like that I have to think the station owners themselves are of dubious character and are more interested in making a buck.
Unfortunately there are also the stations that are owned by people who actually agree with the questionable preachers, like stations that are loaded with Word of Faith, KJV only, or conspiracy oriented programs because the owners are using their station as a platform to push their pet doctrines. They may be sincere in their beliefs, but that doesn't change the fact that they're allowing people on the air that are doing more harm than help to the body of Christ and reaching the lost.
> teachers of dubious character who seem more interested in
> making a buck than teaching the Gospel, that would not be
> upholding orthodox Christianity. That would be selling out
> in the name of God; a sad, and timeworn, tradition.
>
In many cases like that I have to think the station owners themselves are of dubious character and are more interested in making a buck.
Unfortunately there are also the stations that are owned by people who actually agree with the questionable preachers, like stations that are loaded with Word of Faith, KJV only, or conspiracy oriented programs because the owners are using their station as a platform to push their pet doctrines. They may be sincere in their beliefs, but that doesn't change the fact that they're allowing people on the air that are doing more harm than help to the body of Christ and reaching the lost.
R
rbrucecarter
Guest
Re: ?
> > BUT your post knocked talk/teaching and presumed there was
> > no evangelical use. You claimed it was church that saved
> > people, not a song or story on the radio...at least that
> is
> > what I gathered from your thread reply...
> >
> > That's simply not true.
>
>
> Agreed..There are many stories of teaching/ministry programs
> that have led folks to Salvation..
I never said it never happened, and qualified my statement accordingly. I just state that is is comparatively rare, based on the phone calls to the station when teaching is aired vs. when music is played. Teaching on the air - no calls. Music - calls as fast as you can answer. And this is on a station that primarily airs teaching, music is the exception. The audience is doing the statistics for me. The calls aren't trivial requests for music, they are serious prayer requests, salvations, etc.
I wanted to counter the people who think that unsaved audiences are out there listening to Christian preachers in massive numbers, the same as they do secular talk radio, and therefore preaching is the only way to go on Christian radio.
> > BUT your post knocked talk/teaching and presumed there was
> > no evangelical use. You claimed it was church that saved
> > people, not a song or story on the radio...at least that
> is
> > what I gathered from your thread reply...
> >
> > That's simply not true.
>
>
> Agreed..There are many stories of teaching/ministry programs
> that have led folks to Salvation..
I never said it never happened, and qualified my statement accordingly. I just state that is is comparatively rare, based on the phone calls to the station when teaching is aired vs. when music is played. Teaching on the air - no calls. Music - calls as fast as you can answer. And this is on a station that primarily airs teaching, music is the exception. The audience is doing the statistics for me. The calls aren't trivial requests for music, they are serious prayer requests, salvations, etc.
I wanted to counter the people who think that unsaved audiences are out there listening to Christian preachers in massive numbers, the same as they do secular talk radio, and therefore preaching is the only way to go on Christian radio.
You've got Jimmy Swaggart whose formats are "all Jimmy, all the time"..because everyone else is "wrong", apparently. Unless a station is owned by, say, the Baptist church, it's either going to reflect the views of its owners, or just be a business tartgeting an audience...or selling time to anyone who will buy it.<P ID="signature">______________
"Your right to know supersedes your right to exist"..Gary Burbank</P>
"Your right to know supersedes your right to exist"..Gary Burbank</P>
C
ccmfan
Guest
Re: ?
> > And - here come the flames - ...
>
> FLAME! FLAME! FLAME!
>
>
>
> > ...we throw ourselves to the
> > lowest common denominator of Christianity when we allow
> > Creationism to be presented. That performs a pre-frontal
> > lobotomy on Christianity scaring intellectuals right out
> of
> > the faith.
>
> I've noticed you saying that over and over of late, and I've
> resisted the bait to this point, but, with a fairly decent
> science background myself and a number of friends with much
> stronger backgrounds who are all also creationists, I just
> have to disagree completely. I have no idea what's
> motivated you to obsess over this lately.
>
> People who are really interested can look into it. I
> daresay the logical and physical evidence for creation is
> significantly greater than the evidence for evolution, but,
> considering it has nothing to do with radio, let's not even
> think of getting into discussion here.
>
I don't want to turn this into a discussion about Creationism either, but I don't think you can lump all ccreationist theories in one category. I think that the problem that Bruce has run into is probably from some (not all) people who believe in the young earth theory and have the attitude that anyone that disagrees with them is less of a Christian or possibly unsaved. There are people like Kent Hovind and Ken Ham with this type of attitude that accuse anyone who believes in old earth creationism or intelligent design of "compromising" with evolution. There are people who discuss creationism intelligently and use scientific theory, especially in the intelligent design group, without justifying evolution or stoopping to bad science in the process.
This is the kind of attitude I've run into from some (not all) people who are KJV only or anti-CCM. I don't mean that all young earth creationists are that way, but some are and that way. One of the biggest problems in the church today is the "do things MY way or you aren't my brother in Christ" attitude that some people have on what are essentially side issues. I've said this before, but I think that when people with narrow views of who is saved get to Heaven they'll be in shock of who is there that they said wouldn't be. Yes, they will have to have had trust in Christ for their salvation, but they won't have to have been young earth creationists, KJV only, anti-CCM, or some particular denomination. And when they get there they'll realize how silly some of their attitudes were.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by ccmfan on 03/11/06 05:45 PM.</FONT></P>
> > And - here come the flames - ...
>
> FLAME! FLAME! FLAME!
>
>
>
> > ...we throw ourselves to the
> > lowest common denominator of Christianity when we allow
> > Creationism to be presented. That performs a pre-frontal
> > lobotomy on Christianity scaring intellectuals right out
> of
> > the faith.
>
> I've noticed you saying that over and over of late, and I've
> resisted the bait to this point, but, with a fairly decent
> science background myself and a number of friends with much
> stronger backgrounds who are all also creationists, I just
> have to disagree completely. I have no idea what's
> motivated you to obsess over this lately.
>
> People who are really interested can look into it. I
> daresay the logical and physical evidence for creation is
> significantly greater than the evidence for evolution, but,
> considering it has nothing to do with radio, let's not even
> think of getting into discussion here.
>
I don't want to turn this into a discussion about Creationism either, but I don't think you can lump all ccreationist theories in one category. I think that the problem that Bruce has run into is probably from some (not all) people who believe in the young earth theory and have the attitude that anyone that disagrees with them is less of a Christian or possibly unsaved. There are people like Kent Hovind and Ken Ham with this type of attitude that accuse anyone who believes in old earth creationism or intelligent design of "compromising" with evolution. There are people who discuss creationism intelligently and use scientific theory, especially in the intelligent design group, without justifying evolution or stoopping to bad science in the process.
This is the kind of attitude I've run into from some (not all) people who are KJV only or anti-CCM. I don't mean that all young earth creationists are that way, but some are and that way. One of the biggest problems in the church today is the "do things MY way or you aren't my brother in Christ" attitude that some people have on what are essentially side issues. I've said this before, but I think that when people with narrow views of who is saved get to Heaven they'll be in shock of who is there that they said wouldn't be. Yes, they will have to have had trust in Christ for their salvation, but they won't have to have been young earth creationists, KJV only, anti-CCM, or some particular denomination. And when they get there they'll realize how silly some of their attitudes were.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by ccmfan on 03/11/06 05:45 PM.</FONT></P>
C
ccmfan
Guest
> You've got Jimmy Swaggart whose formats are "all Jimmy, all
> the time"..because everyone else is "wrong", apparently.
> Unless a station is owned by, say, the Baptist church, it's
> either going to reflect the views of its owners, or just be
> a business tartgeting an audience...or selling time to
> anyone who will buy it.
>
Some Christian stations do manage to be a business, sell time, and don't stoop to allowing anyone on that flashes money in their faces. I hope that most station owners do have a standard. Sometimes that standard is too narrow or too broad, or sometimes in the wrong place, but hopefully they have a standard. Unfortunately there are some stations that have NO standard and play a charade of claiming to be a Christian station while allowing anyone on for a buck.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by ccmfan on 03/11/06 10:34 PM.</FONT></P>
> the time"..because everyone else is "wrong", apparently.
> Unless a station is owned by, say, the Baptist church, it's
> either going to reflect the views of its owners, or just be
> a business tartgeting an audience...or selling time to
> anyone who will buy it.
>
Some Christian stations do manage to be a business, sell time, and don't stoop to allowing anyone on that flashes money in their faces. I hope that most station owners do have a standard. Sometimes that standard is too narrow or too broad, or sometimes in the wrong place, but hopefully they have a standard. Unfortunately there are some stations that have NO standard and play a charade of claiming to be a Christian station while allowing anyone on for a buck.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by ccmfan on 03/11/06 10:34 PM.</FONT></P>
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