Technical Changes Coming to KZTM

[bossbill]

Just wait, we'll be number one in Union...

 

[The New Chico]

Today Union...tomorrow, Lilliwaup!

 

[davideduardo]

Fair enough... I hadn't heard the 'hot zip' term before.

So in certain metros (like Seattle, for example) the higher income areas (like West Seattle, Capitol Hill) might not factor into the ratings as much as relatively lower income areas that have better participation?

Nielsen does not guarantee nor even seek sample proportionality by ZIP Code or by city. It tries to achieve proportional samples for each country in a Metro Survey Area and for the HDHA and HDBA areas within the total market (High Density Black or Hispanic Areas). While they attempt some proportionality within counties, that is based on zones, not ZIPs or city limits. Called Geozones, those are portions of counties that have similar "types" of residents based on things like income and the like.

But the fact is that there is only population proportionality assured by county. Cities and townships within counties have not sought or guaranteed proportionality as those are political subdivisions, and have nothing to do with a radio market area.

 

[crainbebo]

Today Union...tomorrow, Lilliwaup!

Don't forget poor Eldon. Family cabin used to be there (until I separated from that side of the family). Can I interest you in some Hamma Hamma oysters?

 

[placebo1969]

I have fond memories of Hamma Hamma and Lake Lena.

 

[ContinuousWave]

I'm not qualified to offer this answer ... but likely difference in where the transmitting antenna is placed on the tower. They may share the tower but not the antenna.

Mistakes are made in filings, etc...6 meters is ~ 20ft...that's no difference in range, etc..eventually it will get corrected .. I had a backup on One Shell Plaza in downtown New Orleans...and two translators. The coordinates were wrong on all 3 and two had different AGL listed. I went up with my phone and app...got the correct info ....but the company HAD to hire a surveyor....using Lazer and GPS detection.. their cost was almost $1000. And their numbers matched mine but I didn't get an extra grand, not even a thank you. smdh

 

[RF101]

AFAIK this move would also open up 92.1 for a new station for the Olympia area, which is currently probably impossible due to the IF issues.

Yes, 92.1 would open up for a Class A in (say) Electron area if only US stations were considered. Unfortunately there likely is a 92.1 Class C allocation for 86kw in Victoria in the FCC's data base. I can't seem to find a listing in Industry Canada for it.

 

[bobdavcav]

Is 98.5 Victoria listed as a C or C1 in the FCC's database? If C, then there's no issue with Victoria if spacing to 102.9 is considered, as there's a 98.5 on Capitol Peak already.

 

[RF101]

There's a placeholder in FCC data base for 92.1 Victoria but not in Industry Canada's so likely a Class A can fit in near the Electron area... With KZTM moving to the northwest the 29km IF clearance to 92.1 is no longer an issue... One would have to wait until the NCE filing window closes to see if 92.1 is still viable in Thurston County..

 

[bobdavcav]

I would think a C3 or C2 would be able to fit there, given there's also a 98.5 C also at Victoria. As that's technically a C1 though, I'm not sure how that's listed in the FCC's database. If it's listed as a C there, then I would think a C2 on 92.1 should be able to fit at Olympia barring any IF issues with 102.9.

 

[Kelly A]

I would think a C3 or C2 would be able to fit there, given there's also a 98.5 C also at Victoria. As that's technically a C1 though, I'm not sure how that's listed in the FCC's database. If it's listed as a C there, then I would think a C2 on 92.1 should be able to fit at Olympia barring any IF issues with 102.9.

The real question is: Who with any common sense would want another station in already-radio-saturated Olympia? There are more radio signals than hardware stores. As I've mentioned prior: All you do is slice the potential revenue pie that much smaller for every signal.
This isn't the 80's.

 

[bigic]

Yes, 92.1 would open up for a Class A in (say) Electron area if only US stations were considered. Unfortunately there likely is a 92.1 Class C allocation for 86kw in Victoria in the FCC's data base. I can't seem to find a listing in Industry Canada for it.

US and Canadian stations can be short-spaced, as long as there is no interference to the incumbent station (in this case, Victoria). 100.7 Plattsburgh, NY (short-spaced to Montreal, QC) is a particularly extreme example.

 

[fordranger797]

The real question is: Who with any common sense would want another station in already-radio-saturated Olympia? There are more radio signals than hardware stores. As I've mentioned prior: All you do is slice the potential revenue pie that much smaller for every signal.
This isn't the 80's.

I think this comment here about sums it up. It’s in everyone’s best interest not to bring any new stations to thurston country. More overall losses in advertising revenue across the board isn’t going to help anyone, particularly after covid-19.

 

[bobdavcav]

The real question is: Who with any common sense would want another station in already-radio-saturated Olympia? There are more radio signals than hardware stores. As I've mentioned prior: All you do is slice the potential revenue pie that much smaller for every signal.
This isn't the 80's.

Quite true. The only reason I could potentially see a new 92.1 signing on is if KRXY wants to eliminate one of its translators in favor of a full license. The same could be said for the KGY branded oldies format on 95.3. I don't see how that scenario, however unlikely, would slice the revenue pie any thinner than it already is. If, for instance, the country format on 92.9 moved to 92.1 then another format launched on 92.9, that could be a problem. Speaking of 92.9, wasn't there a proposal to locate a 92.9 at Napavine at one time? Whatever happened to that? To me, that would be incredibly tightly spaced to Yakima.

 

[fordranger797]

Quite true. The only reason I could potentially see a new 92.1 signing on is if KRXY wants to eliminate one of its translators in favor of a full license. The same could be said for the KGY branded oldies format on 95.3. I don't see how that scenario, however unlikely, would slice the revenue pie any thinner than it already is. If, for instance, the country format on 92.9 moved to 92.1 then another format launched on 92.9, that could be a problem. Speaking of 92.9, wasn't there a proposal to locate a 92.9 at Napavine at one time? Whatever happened to that? To me, that would be incredibly tightly spaced to Yakima.

Well, KGY’s classic hits format on that frequency would be fine, but moving any of KRXY’s translators would be a detriment. I’m sure that the folks over at KGY/KYYO would not be happy (and rightfully so).

 

[Kelly A]

Quite true. The only reason I could potentially see a new 92.1 signing on is if KRXY wants to eliminate one of its translators in favor of a full license. The same could be said for the KGY branded oldies format on 95.3. I don't see how that scenario, however unlikely, would slice the revenue pie any thinner than it already is. If, for instance, the country format on 92.9 moved to 92.1 then another format launched on 92.9, that could be a problem. Speaking of 92.9, wasn't there a proposal to locate a 92.9 at Napavine at one time? Whatever happened to that? To me, that would be incredibly tightly spaced to Yakima.

Because building a full class station is much more expensive than a translator. Not just building it from scratch, but operating expenses too. You have a huge difference in cost of operating it. Even building a Class A isn't cheap. If the market barely supports a translator, why do you think a full class station would be better? Answer; at least in Thurston County, it wouldn't.

 

[crainbebo]

Yakima doesn't matter unless it's on paper. The giant Cascade Range blocks The Bull and just about everything else from Yakima in low-elevation Thurston and Lewis County. Years ago before the herd of translators made their way into Olympia, I could get a few Yakima stations on I-5 around Nisqually - only because of the Mt. Rainier knife-edge technique, signals bouncing off Mt. Rainier and I was in the perfect position to receive them on a map.

 

[Kelly A]

Yakima doesn't matter unless it's on paper. The giant Cascade Range blocks The Bull and just about everything else from Yakima in low-elevation Thurston and Lewis County. Years ago before the herd of translators made their way into Olympia, I could get a few Yakima stations on I-5 around Nisqually - only because of the Mt. Rainier knife-edge technique, signals bouncing off Mt. Rainier and I was in the perfect position to receive them on a map.

Frankly, even Yakima is signal saturated when it comes to radio. Combine too many signals with a long-depressed local economy, and it's hard to make a business case for being another, or even upgraded signal in that market.

 

[crainbebo]

Tri-Cities is even worse in my opinion. They have put translators and LPFMs on nearly every open channel there was. Then you have the rimshots from Pendleton/Hermiston...
Some formats are missing entirely or just on the rimshots (like classic hits), while there are at least three LPFMs with Spanish Christian programming. There are actually *fewer* Regional Mexican stations in Yakima (the county is now 50% Hispanic) than in Tri-Cities, in which only Pasco has the majority-Hispanic population. Benton County's Hispanic population is around 20%, and that consists of Kennewick and Richland plus other towns. Really, it's Yakima and Lower Valley towns that would benefit from having the Latin Pop, Spanish CHR, and Spanish Rhythmic formats...

 

[fybush]

Yes, 92.1 would open up for a Class A in (say) Electron area if only US stations were considered. Unfortunately there likely is a 92.1 Class C allocation for 86kw in Victoria in the FCC's data base. I can't seem to find a listing in Industry Canada for it.

There's not just an allocation in Victoria. There's a full-fledged 88 kW station on 92.1, CBU-FM-1.

https://fccdata.org/?lang=en&canfm=CBU-FM-1

That by itself, as others have noted, is not an obstacle to using 92.1 on the US side, so long as the appropriate protections are observed at the border. (For a comparable example, look at a recent addition in the Buffalo market, WZDV 92.1 Amherst, which uses a tight DA to avoid interference on Canadian soil with CKPC-FM 92.1 in Brantford, 60 or so miles west.)

The bigger issues with 92.1 anywhere in the Olympia area are the spacings to KQMV on 92.5 and especially to KYFQ on 91.7. If you're trying to put a class A in on 92.1, you need to be able to show a fully-spaced allocation site that's at least 75 km from KYFQ. That puts you well south of Olympia, down toward Tenino.

So you're home clear, right? Nope. Because a new 92.1A allocation also has to be fully spaced to KGON's full class C on 92.3, which means 153 km/95 miles, and if you get far enough north to clear KGON, you're no longer clear to KYFQ or KQMV.

In short - even without Canada, there's not quite enough spacing anywhere near Olympia to pull off even an A on 92.1.