Technical Question

[F.M.Hertz]

I have among my collection of videotapes a copy of the "50 Years of Lete Night" that NBC aired during their 75th anniversary. I was curious when I saw a snippet from the old Steve Allen Tonight show where he alluded to a small box on the upper right corner of the screen. He mentioned something that when it flashes he would have about 90 seconds to wrap things up.

What was that flashing box for? Was it something that the folks back at the affiliates had to look out for?

I noticed it as well in some films that I saw from the old Jack Paar Tonight Show.

Was this an NBC thing? Did CBS and/or ABC use this or some other type of system?

Am curious in heard your thoughts and answers.

Thanks.

 

[landtuna]

I'm not familiar with the TV use of the flashing symbol but do know that a similar method was used in movie theaters to warn of an upcoming reel change.

As the movie neared the end of the reel a white flash would appear in the upper right hand corner. I've seen both single and double spots. Several seconds later another white dot would flash and would be the signal for the projector operator to switch projectors (reels).

Interestingly, this little piece of Hollywood came to me in an episode of "Dragnet" (the original) where the system was explained to the detectives.

 

[Davros2006]

The CBC continues to do this, usually when a commercial break is close at hand.

 

[CrankyYankee]

A series of three dots up in the right corner was what we watched for to do reel changes in Armed Forces TV.
The first dot would appear at ten seconds before changeover. The next one was at six seconds (I think) before changeover and then the final one at about two seconds before end of the reel. A little metal attachment just before the end of the reel could also trigger the changeover if the telecine was equipped for that method. That way those dots up in the corner wouldn't be used. You'll still see them on some old prints of hour-long TV shows and some older movies.

 

[azumanga]

The CBC continues to do this, usually when a commercial break is close at hand.

In this case, and the case with NBC, that's it's purpose -- to cue the master control that a commercial break is coming up.

According to clips on YouTube, ITV in Britain also used a similar cube, but involving a striped box instead of a white one.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

In...the case with NBC, that's it's purpose -- to cue the master control that a commercial break is coming up.

Assuming we're talking about a taped game show or soap, wouldn't it be more reliable
for the network to send the actual break timings to the affiliates via TWX (or whatever
method NBC then used)?

 

[BMR]

In...the case with NBC, that's it's purpose -- to cue the master control that a commercial break is coming up.

Assuming we're talking about a taped game show or soap, wouldn't it be more reliable
for the network to send the actual break timings to the affiliates via TWX (or whatever
method NBC then used)?

On ITV it tended to be used during live sports etc. I say 'tended' but I seem to recall seeing it fairly recently (ITV has regional commercials). I'm not sure if I've see it since analogue switch off though- I'll keep an eye out next time I watch soccer or boxing on ITV.

A bit more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_mark#Cue_dots_in_television

 

[Bob1370]

Don't remember ever seeing this on the networks back in the day, especially when we were seeing live shows feeding from NYC (like the Tonight show was until it went to same-day taping back around 1960-61). But it occurs to me that could have been because we were watching live feeds from NYC in the Eastern time zone. People west of the Mississippi, and especially west of the Rockies, were getting a lot of these shows on kinescope until stations got their video tape machines around 1958-59. So signals to swap reels or change projectors for longer (60 to 90 minute) shows that didn't fit on a single 30 minute reel, were important. That could also signal master control at the station airing the show to get ready for a spot break.

 

[mjlarochelle]

I've seen tapes from CTV in the 1980s where the flashing box was used, right before commercials.

 

[joebtsflk1]

I do sort of remember the flashing box on NBC, and it did seems like it was mostly daytime television that had those. By the way I was in Iowa, and we always saw the East Coast feed, just didn't have to stay up so late. (Seems like the Tonight show had the little boxes at the top right too)

 

[newsmark]

In...the case with NBC, that's it's purpose -- to cue the master control that a commercial break is coming up.

Assuming we're talking about a taped game show or soap, wouldn't it be more reliable
for the network to send the actual break timings to the affiliates via TWX (or whatever
method NBC then used)?

I can't speak to the Allen/Parr days, but even in the early 80s, the networks used cues to alert the affiliates that THEIR break was coming. They knew that in some stations, one person had multiple duties and was only half watching the show. And there was always the risk of the TWX machine malfunctioning or the TWX simply not making its way to the right person. (And in a live show, the TWX would tell you the ORDER, but not necessarily the exact time of every break.)

"This is Today on NBC" is a great example. In the 70s and 80s, you'd hear the Today show anchors use 3 types of cues: "This is Today on NBC," meant the break would be. I don't know whether that's always true now, but it was then.

On CBS boxing coverage, since there wasn't much time between rounds, the network would split the :63 station break into 2 parts, :30 and :33. During the round, the CBS sports host would say, "We'd like to alert our affiliates that there will be a 30 second station break at the end of this round." (He'd never say 33.)

As soon as I heard the bell at the end of the round, I'd have to roll tape to get up to speed (2 second preroll on the TCR-100 cart machine, 5 second preroll if I had to run something directly off 2" tape. Even the announcer sped up the network ID so we wouldn't miss the start of the next round.

"ding ding!" "thisisCBS." Spot.

 

[joebtsflk1]

As soon as I heard the bell at the end of the round, I'd have to roll tape to get up to speed (2 second preroll on the TCR-100 cart machine, 5 second preroll if I had to run something directly off 2" tape. Even the announcer sped up the network ID so we wouldn't miss the start of the next round.

And given this thread started off of an old Steve Allen show, that brings to mind a tangent. On the Steve Allen Plymouth Shows that are on YouTube, there are someinstances where the VT was very glitchy looking in the beginning frames of a taped segment, particularly the taped open of that goofy looking dancer chroma-keyed against the push button transmission on the dash.

Seemed like pre-roll might have helped, but this was 1959, wonder if the concept of pre-roll had come into practice?

 

[oldiesfan6479]

Seemed like pre-roll might have helped, but this was 1959, wonder if the concept of pre-roll
had come into practice?

You always had a pre-roll with video tape--:05, 07, or even :10. The TCR-100 cart machine
was :02 and (finally) the ACR-25 was instant.

If you are seeing break-up at the top of the spot on the YouTube video, it's likely the spot
originated from another location than the show, and both feed points were "out of synch"
with each other, which caused the tape to break up.

 

[joebtsflk1]

Here's the clip in point from The Steve Allen Plymouth Show, Jan. 1959:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJO59Tpc3hI

First instance of what appears to be VT glitchies is right after the Peacock about 00:30, then a pre-recorded Steve Allen Plymouth spot about 04:15.

 

[danderson6500]

In this case, and the case with NBC, that's it's purpose -- to cue the master control that a commercial break is coming up.

According to clips on YouTube, ITV in Britain also used a similar cube, but involving a striped box instead of a white one.

I see this a lot while watching eposides of The Doctors.(soap opera)

 

[danderson6500]

I do sort of remember the flashing box on NBC, and it did seems like it was mostly daytime television that had those. By the way I was in Iowa, and we always saw the East Coast feed, just didn't have to stay up so late. (Seems like the Tonight show had the little boxes at the top right too)

Another World had those flashing boxes too, usually when at the end of a scene on black. I've seen those on Concentration too.

 

[ixnay]

I can't speak to the Allen/Parr days, but even in the early 80s, the networks used cues to alert the affiliates that THEIR break was coming. They knew that in some stations, one person had multiple duties and was only half watching the show. And there was always the risk of the TWX machine malfunctioning or the TWX simply not making its way to the right person. (And in a live show, the TWX would tell you the ORDER, but not necessarily the exact time of every break.)

"This is Today on NBC" is a great example. In the 70s and 80s, you'd hear the Today show anchors use 3 types of cues: "This is Today on NBC," meant the break would be. I don't know whether that's always true now, but it was then.

On CBS boxing coverage, since there wasn't much time between rounds, the network would split the :63 station break into 2 parts, :30 and :33. During the round, the CBS sports host would say, "We'd like to alert our affiliates that there will be a 30 second station break at the end of this round." (He'd never say 33.)

As soon as I heard the bell at the end of the round, I'd have to roll tape to get up to speed (2 second preroll on the TCR-100 cart machine, 5 second preroll if I had to run something directly off 2" tape. Even the announcer sped up the network ID so we wouldn't miss the start of the next round.

"ding ding!" "thisisCBS." Spot.

I've never worked in TV production (although I could've done so at my DII college if I wanted to). I've always been just a viewer (and never much of a boxing fan, certainly not as much as my mom says her dad was). I've probably watched more boxing on ABC (WWOS, Olympics, etc.) than anywhere else. newsmark's experience is cool, but just as cool was the broadcaster, counting down to a between rounds station break, saying "'ABC's Wide World of Sports' will continue after this word from your local station!" "ding ding! [a nanosecond after 'station' passes his lips]"

ixnay