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Testing songs

Boy, no kidding- why in the heck would we be interested in doing our homework and really finding out what our listeners want to hear? All radio should be programmed by gut and instinct (plus the old favorite standard, "the charts").

NOT.

> Testing songs is a joke. Particularly with the VH programming philosophy.
>
 
Joel: Clean this mess boy

OC: Slurp, Slurp, Slurp

Joel: Good boy.

:)

> Boy, no kidding- why in the heck would we be interested in
> doing our homework and really finding out what our listeners
> want to hear? All radio should be programmed by gut and
> instinct (plus the old favorite standard, "the charts").
>
> NOT.
>
> > Testing songs is a joke. Particularly with the VH
> programming philosophy.
> >
>
 
To think a station can know what to play based on the feedback of a handful of people in an auditorium is wishful thinking. In the case of oldies radio or VH radio with a shorter time period to cover, YES, the station SHOULD go by the Billboard charts that show the Top 40 songs of the time. And don't just stick with the top 12 or 15 of those.

> Boy, no kidding- why in the heck would we be interested in
> doing our homework and really finding out what our listeners
> want to hear? All radio should be programmed by gut and
> instinct (plus the old favorite standard, "the charts").
>
> NOT.
>
> > Testing songs is a joke. Particularly with the VH
> > programming philosophy.
 
> To think a station can know what to play based on the
> feedback of a handful of people in an auditorium is wishful
> thinking. In the case of oldies radio or VH radio with a
> shorter time period to cover, YES, the station SHOULD go by
> the Billboard charts that show the Top 40 songs of the time.
> And don't just stick with the top 12 or 15 of those.
>
I would suggest the following:

1. Internet Surveys
2. Callout Research

in addition to the auditorium testing.


and for the rest of the people test new songs on the air and ask listener opinions via phone (or internet).<P ID="signature">______________

</P>
 
> > To think a station can know what to play based on the
> > feedback of a handful of people in an auditorium is
> wishful
> > thinking. In the case of oldies radio or VH radio with a
> > shorter time period to cover, YES, the station SHOULD go
> by
> > the Billboard charts that show the Top 40 songs of the
> time.
> > And don't just stick with the top 12 or 15 of those.
> >
> I would suggest the following:
>
> 1. Internet Surveys
> 2. Callout Research
>
> in addition to the auditorium testing.
>
>
> and for the rest of the people test new songs on the air and
> ask listener opinions via phone (or internet).
>


You're kidding, right? Callout research??? In today's world of call screening (caller ID, answering machines), cellphones and do-not-call lists how representative of a sample are you gonna get? Most people I know screen their calls one way or another. Look at the response problems Arbitron has with certain demos.

Internet surveys? Yeah right! Just ask Howard Dean how much internet surveys reflect reality. I don't know anyone who participates in internet polls and give them no credibility. Would you program a station by the opinions expressed on this board? Not if you want more than a .1 share.

As far as using request lines as a barometer of a song's appeal...that idea was discredited decades ago...it's generally agreed that less than 5% of your audience will EVER call your station for ANY reason, let alone to voice opinion on a song. Maybe if they REALLY HATE it they MIGHT call, but mostly they'll just change the station.

And as far as old Billboard charts goes...it's been discussed elsewhere. Just because a song charted high 25 years ago doesn't mean anyone wants to hear it today. "Disco Duck" was #1 for a couple weeks...gotta be a "power gold" today, right?
 
Uh, Disco Duck is a novelty song and still deserves (as a joke) to be played, just like Milli Vanilli, just like Vanilla Ice, just like some of Hammer's material, just like Weird Al, just like Ray Stevens, Blues Brothers, Steve Martin, Rodner Dangerfield, Kip Adotta and others with somewhat out there songs. Heaven forbid we inject a little fun with some bad music into a format. Heaven's no! Sometimes you people kill me. Let's keep it all serious and deep, gather around a fire and smoke peyote together and dream up ways to save the world. Unbelievable! Stiffs playing stiffs. Makes sense I guess.

> > > To think a station can know what to play based on the
> > > feedback of a handful of people in an auditorium is
> > wishful
> > > thinking. In the case of oldies radio or VH radio with
> a
> > > shorter time period to cover, YES, the station SHOULD go
>
> > by
> > > the Billboard charts that show the Top 40 songs of the
> > time.
> > > And don't just stick with the top 12 or 15 of those.
> > >
> > I would suggest the following:
> >
> > 1. Internet Surveys
> > 2. Callout Research
> >
> > in addition to the auditorium testing.
> >
> >
> > and for the rest of the people test new songs on the air
> and
> > ask listener opinions via phone (or internet).
> >
>
>
> You're kidding, right? Callout research??? In today's
> world of call screening (caller ID, answering machines),
> cellphones and do-not-call lists how representative of a
> sample are you gonna get? Most people I know screen their
> calls one way or another. Look at the response problems
> Arbitron has with certain demos.
>
> Internet surveys? Yeah right! Just ask Howard Dean how
> much internet surveys reflect reality. I don't know anyone
> who participates in internet polls and give them no
> credibility. Would you program a station by the opinions
> expressed on this board? Not if you want more than a .1
> share.
>
> As far as using request lines as a barometer of a song's
> appeal...that idea was discredited decades ago...it's
> generally agreed that less than 5% of your audience will
> EVER call your station for ANY reason, let alone to voice
> opinion on a song. Maybe if they REALLY HATE it they MIGHT
> call, but mostly they'll just change the station.
>
> And as far as old Billboard charts goes...it's been
> discussed elsewhere. Just because a song charted high 25
> years ago doesn't mean anyone wants to hear it today.
> "Disco Duck" was #1 for a couple weeks...gotta be a "power
> gold" today, right?
>
 
As a matter of fact, yes. The song should get some airplay. Not as much as the Rolling Stones, The Who, Spinners, etc., but once in awhile yes. And indeed because of the fact that it WAS a number one song at the time.

> And as far as old Billboard charts goes...it's been
> discussed elsewhere. Just because a song charted high 25
> years ago doesn't mean anyone wants to hear it today.
> "Disco Duck" was #1 for a couple weeks...gotta be a "power
> gold" today, right?
>
 
The fact that the person's even discussing POWER rotations shows you the format (lack of it) is a format, just a bad one. It has POWER, RECURRENT'S and GOLD, albeit from 20 and 30 years ago and albeit mostly white guys and few token urban songs - very few. Real anti-establishment crap would play a song once every 22 days not every 22 hours, which is why it's relegated to pirates and geeks who want people to know they listen to "cooler" music. How absurd.

> As a matter of fact, yes. The song should get some airplay.
> Not as much as the Rolling Stones, The Who, Spinners, etc.,
> but once in awhile yes. And indeed because of the fact that
> it WAS a number one song at the time.
>
> > And as far as old Billboard charts goes...it's been
> > discussed elsewhere. Just because a song charted high 25
> > years ago doesn't mean anyone wants to hear it today.
> > "Disco Duck" was #1 for a couple weeks...gotta be a "power
>
> > gold" today, right?
> >
>
 
> The fact that the person's even discussing POWER rotations
> shows you the format (lack of it) is a format, just a bad
> one. It has POWER, RECURRENT'S and GOLD, albeit from 20 and
> 30 years ago and albeit mostly white guys and few token
> urban songs - very few. Real anti-establishment crap would
> play a song once every 22 days not every 22 hours, which is
> why it's relegated to pirates and geeks who want people to
> know they listen to "cooler" music. How absurd.
>

Well, they also want to have more than a .001 share, which is all they'd have if they had such a huge playlist they only repeated every 22 days. Hate to break it to you but liking obscure music doesn't make you cool.
 
> You're kidding, right? Callout research??? In today's
> world of call screening (caller ID, answering machines),
> cellphones and do-not-call lists how representative of a
> sample are you gonna get? Most people I know screen their
> calls one way or another. Look at the response problems
> Arbitron has with certain demos.

Well, that's kind of why it works. The kind of people who'll respond to callout research are the same as those who'll be responsive to a call from Arbitron. Your callout research may not represent the general population, but they'll represent the Arbitron participating population.
 
Well actually, a number of years ago several major researchers (like ComQuest and Moyes) perfected this technique. They first recruit them (as any call center would for any Auditorium Test, Perceptual, etc.), then there's a really cool, accurate procedure they use. The listener can participate in one big chunk (# of songs) or at his/her leisure over a two week period. People are MORE likely to do this in the comfort of their own home, at their own speed, vs. trucking out on a weeknight and spending a few hours at some hotel conf room.
>
> You're kidding, right? Callout research??? In today's
> world of call screening (caller ID, answering machines),
> cellphones and do-not-call lists how representative of a
> sample are you gonna get? Most people I know screen their
> calls one way or another. Look at the response problems
> Arbitron has with certain demos.
>
> Internet surveys? Yeah right! Just ask Howard Dean how
> much internet surveys reflect reality. I don't know anyone
> who participates in internet polls and give them no
> credibility. Would you program a station by the opinions
> expressed on this board? Not if you want more than a .1
> share.
>
> As far as using request lines as a barometer of a song's
> appeal...that idea was discredited decades ago...it's
> generally agreed that less than 5% of your audience will
> EVER call your station for ANY reason, let alone to voice
> opinion on a song. Maybe if they REALLY HATE it they MIGHT
> call, but mostly they'll just change the station.
>
> And as far as old Billboard charts goes...it's been
> discussed elsewhere. Just because a song charted high 25
> years ago doesn't mean anyone wants to hear it today.
> "Disco Duck" was #1 for a couple weeks...gotta be a "power
> gold" today, right?
>
 
So, using your logic, "Honey" by Bobby Goldsboro (#1 for eight weeks in 1968) should be a Power on Oldies stations?



> As a matter of fact, yes. The song should get some airplay.
> Not as much as the Rolling Stones, The Who, Spinners, etc.,
> but once in awhile yes. And indeed because of the fact that
> it WAS a number one song at the time.
>
> > And as far as old Billboard charts goes...it's been
> > discussed elsewhere. Just because a song charted high 25
> > years ago doesn't mean anyone wants to hear it today.
> > "Disco Duck" was #1 for a couple weeks...gotta be a "power
>
> > gold" today, right?
> >
>
 
OC: musicloverII get a frickin' life

> Joel: Clean this mess boy
>
> OC: Slurp, Slurp, Slurp
>
> Joel: Good boy.
>
> :)
>
> > Boy, no kidding- why in the heck would we be interested in
> > doing our homework and really finding out what our
> listeners want to hear? All radio should be programmed by gut and
> > instinct (plus the old favorite standard, "the charts").
> >
> > NOT.
> >
> > > Testing songs is a joke. Particularly with the VH
> > programming philosophy.
> > >
> >
>
 
So, that's how you think auditorium tests are conducted?

> To think a station can know what to play based on the
> feedback of a handful of people in an auditorium is wishful
> thinking. In the case of oldies radio or VH radio with a
> shorter time period to cover, YES, the station SHOULD go by
> the Billboard charts that show the Top 40 songs of the time.
> And don't just stick with the top 12 or 15 of those.
>
> > Boy, no kidding- why in the heck would we be interested in
>
> > doing our homework and really finding out what our
> listeners
> > want to hear? All radio should be programmed by gut and
> > instinct (plus the old favorite standard, "the charts").
> >
> > NOT.
> >
> > > Testing songs is a joke. Particularly with the VH
> > > programming philosophy.
>
 
You missed the point. Jack claims to be anti-establishment, playing what they want, even the average person flipping through the stations knows they don't. Maybe not in the small towns that can handle Jack but in MAJOR MARKETS, it's laughable and laughed at. They should save the BS for people who don't know better.

> > The fact that the person's even discussing POWER rotations
>
> > shows you the format (lack of it) is a format, just a bad
> > one. It has POWER, RECURRENT'S and GOLD, albeit from 20
> and
> > 30 years ago and albeit mostly white guys and few token
> > urban songs - very few. Real anti-establishment crap would
>
> > play a song once every 22 days not every 22 hours, which
> is
> > why it's relegated to pirates and geeks who want people to
>
> > know they listen to "cooler" music. How absurd.
> >
>
> Well, they also want to have more than a .001 share, which
> is all they'd have if they had such a huge playlist they
> only repeated every 22 days. Hate to break it to you but
> liking obscure music doesn't make you cool.
>
 
Bobby- HE missed the point. Mr. Bitter Beer Face continues to deny Jack's ratings success in ALL SIZE MARKETS.


> You missed the point. Jack claims to be anti-establishment,
> playing what they want, even the average person flipping
> through the stations knows they don't. Maybe not in the
> small towns that can handle Jack but in MAJOR MARKETS, it's
> laughable and laughed at. They should save the BS for people
> who don't know better.
 
> You missed the point. Jack claims to be anti-establishment,
> playing what they want, even the average person flipping
> through the stations knows they don't.

It doesn't matter. It's a new radio concept that many people like.

Maybe not in the
> small towns that can handle Jack but in MAJOR MARKETS, it's
> laughable and laughed at. They should save the BS for people
> who don't know better.

Again, look at the ratings. We've presented you with facts but you won't give up. Time to give up: So far JACK IS A SUCCESS NATIONWIDE (with a few exceptions). YOU may think its BS, but OTHER people think not. Its YOUR opinion, NOT FACT.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
</P>
 
And the boys go gulp, gulp gulp

Sure, all size markets matter. I'm sure they'll program Chatanooga like Chicago. Oh, wait, they are.

> Bobby- HE missed the point. Mr. Bitter Beer Face continues
> to deny Jack's ratings success in ALL SIZE MARKETS.
>
>
> > You missed the point. Jack claims to be
> anti-establishment,
> > playing what they want, even the average person flipping
> > through the stations knows they don't. Maybe not in the
> > small towns that can handle Jack but in MAJOR MARKETS,
> it's
> > laughable and laughed at. They should save the BS for
> people
> > who don't know better.
>
 
Absolutely. Isn't that what VH fans want when they talk about "variety"?

> So, using your logic, "Honey" by Bobby Goldsboro (#1 for
> eight weeks in 1968) should be a Power on Oldies stations?
>
> > As a matter of fact, yes. The song should get some
> airplay.
> > Not as much as the Rolling Stones, The Who, Spinners,
> etc.,
> > but once in awhile yes. And indeed because of the fact
> that
> > it WAS a number one song at the time.
> >
> > > And as far as old Billboard charts goes...it's been
> > > discussed elsewhere. Just because a song charted high
> 25
> > > years ago doesn't mean anyone wants to hear it today.
> > > "Disco Duck" was #1 for a couple weeks...gotta be a
> "power
> >
> > > gold" today, right?
> > >
> >
>
 
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