• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

The advertisers are getting mad... WJMK

H

hitradio

Guest
I spoke to one advertiser today who puts $500K into JMK every year between the five companies he owns... The reason he puts the $500K into JMK every year is not because of the music. He puts the money into JMK specifically because of Dick Biondi... That's the reason... Biondi... not the music.

Now that Biondi is no longer on the air to do his remotes, boy is he pissed!

Infinity is so f**cking stupid as to think that the personalities don't drive sales! Sure... personalities have high fixed costs, but they build loyalty with listeners sell spots as a result! What on earth is Infinity thinking?!

I don't care how good the ratings will be on 104.3 with Jack FM... The revenues will go down!

Time to short Viacom.
 
And this is the point radio management at the upper levels doesn't understand. Radio is not meant to be run the way they need to be run for Wall Street. The erosion in listenership across the Country is in direct response to everything they've had to do to increase quarterly earnings, never once acknowledging the long-term affect. Eventually they force feed the Kool-Aid down to people like Harvey Wells and other followers in the chain of command who know longer even remember what radio exists for and then justify it all with statements like this:

For Harvey Wells, vice president and group station manager for Newsweb Radio Group, Nine FM's owner, inspiration struck sitting at a college bar with his 21-year-old daughter. After hearing hard-rock AC/DC followed by pop from Huey Lewis and the News, then followed by country singer Kenny Chesney, he asked her if she thought the mix was strange. "And she said, 'Why strange?' " Wells said. " 'It's just good music.' "

So is Mas Que Nada by Sergio Mendez & Brazil '66, Come To Me by France Joli and Train by Goldfrapp. Hearing them crash into each other doesn't make them taste too good. There's a great many songs that are great. They don't all get programmed on one station because what's great to one person is pointless to another. Sure there's a bunch of great songs all can agree on but when they get it all on one station, they don't like it. So Harvey's logic is: His daughter's 21, the station targets 25-54 male. One of the key elements of radio is removed and it's a good thing now? How often do you think she changes the station? Asta la vista TSL in about a year, hello cume for a little while then look out below.

Wow, Rod Serling couldn't write anything this bizarre.





> I spoke to one advertiser today who puts $500K into JMK
> every year between the five companies he owns... The reason
> he puts the $500K into JMK every year is not because of the
> music. He puts the money into JMK specifically because of
> Dick Biondi... That's the reason... Biondi... not the music.
>
>
> Now that Biondi is no longer on the air to do his remotes,
> boy is he pissed!
>
> Infinity is so f**cking stupid as to think that the
> personalities don't drive sales! Sure... personalities have
> high fixed costs, but they build loyalty with listeners sell
> spots as a result! What on earth is Infinity thinking?!
>
> I don't care how good the ratings will be on 104.3 with Jack
> FM... The revenues will go down!
>
> Time to short Viacom.
>
 
So Harvey's logic is: His daughter's 21,
> the station targets 25-54 male.

LOL.

Well, it made for a good line in the article!

And funny thing is, most people did not pick up on it. <P ID="signature">______________

"Z"
Music Coordinator/Technical Support</P>
 
reality cheq

Most Oldies stations have changed BECAUSE of revenue concerns. One story about one client doesn't represent the entire picture.

WJMK was rarely Top 10 25-54-- any adult station needs to be consistently competitive 25-54 to get revenue needed to succeed. While that premise SUCKS
(and it does), it is today's ad buyer mentality. Is it a self-fulfilling prophecy exacerbated by radio GMs, GSMs and AEs--YES. But it is what it is.

Please see the FUTURE OF OLDIES thread on the Oldies board- I've drawn up a
scenario that may make sense.

If radio and time buyers will ever wise-up and realize that the very lucrative
25-54 crowd they valued 10 years ago is now 35-64, our conversations about Oldies will change big-time. Until then, this IS today's (sad) reality. It is what it is.
>
> I don't care how good the ratings will be on 104.3 with Jack
> FM... The revenues will go down!
>
> Time to short Viacom.
>
 
Re: reality cheq, for you sir.

While your post is correct, you fail to notice a few things specific to this market.

Infinity blew away a heritage station that was pulling revenue on the NAMES of the personalities, and heritage factor of the station. This station was sold on that NOT 25-54 numbers. And it worked. It could have been better..... but in the cluster it worked fine.

More important, they blew away the station when their counterpart in the market, is billing the same but overhead costs outstrip the revenue taken in. In this scenario, that blows away your consistent 25-54 rule.

Infinity did this to make a statement. Be bold over CC. They blew up their Flagship in NYC and a heritage in Market #2.<P ID="signature">______________

"Z"
Music Coordinator/Technical Support</P>
 
Re: reality cheq, for you sir.

> While your post is correct, you fail to notice a few things
> specific to this market.
>
> Infinity blew away a heritage station that was pulling
> revenue on the NAMES of the personalities, and heritage
> factor of the station. This station was sold on that NOT
> 25-54 numbers. And it worked. It could have been better.....
> but in the cluster it worked fine.
>
> More important, they blew away the station when their
> counterpart in the market, is billing the same but overhead
> costs outstrip the revenue taken in. In this scenario, that
> blows away your consistent 25-54 rule.
>
> Infinity did this to make a statement. Be bold over CC. They
> blew up their Flagship in NYC and a heritage in Market #2.
>
Hey, Z.
Some exceptional dialogue going on here today. Actually, the
level of discourse is higher than the actual "quality" of tunes
being offered on the JACK 104.3.

My question is, you refer to `JMK`s counterpart in the market?
Is that WDRV? How is it their overhead outstrips their revenue?
OR, are you referring to WCKG?
 
Re: reality cheq

In other words:

"I've created a scenario I can justify and spin in a manner I want so it makes sense in the matter I'm justifying it".

I'll chase my tale, you chase yours.

> Most Oldies stations have changed BECAUSE of revenue
> concerns. One story about one client doesn't represent the
> entire picture.
>
> WJMK was rarely Top 10 25-54-- any adult station needs to be
> consistently competitive 25-54 to get revenue needed to
> succeed. While that premise SUCKS
> (and it does), it is today's ad buyer mentality. Is it a
> self-fulfilling prophecy exacerbated by radio GMs, GSMs and
> AEs--YES. But it is what it is.
>
> Please see the FUTURE OF OLDIES thread on the Oldies board-
> I've drawn up a
> scenario that may make sense.
>
> If radio and time buyers will ever wise-up and realize that
> the very lucrative
> 25-54 crowd they valued 10 years ago is now 35-64, our
> conversations about Oldies will change big-time. Until
> then, this IS today's (sad) reality. It is what it is.
> >
> > I don't care how good the ratings will be on 104.3 with
> Jack
> > FM... The revenues will go down!
> >
> > Time to short Viacom.
> >
>
 
Viacom

Shorting Viacom... interesting suggestion, given Infinity's very questionable programming decisions over time, but you have to consider that it is one of many entities within Viacom, which might really be called a media conglomerate, given all its holdings -- MTV Networks (including numerous cable channels), CBS, Infinity, Simon & Schuster, and the list goes on.

Viacom is in the process of splitting up, and has announced its intentions to divide itself into two companies, (1) MTV Networks (which has been doing very well if I'm not mistaken) and (2) CBS (which is where Infinity will supposedly reside after the breakup). The outlook for CBS itself looks decent, despite various high-profile shake-ups there in the last year or two, but Infinity seems to be continuing to struggle.

So what is a shareholder to do? Admittedly, this isn't a forum for investment advice, but I'd be cautious about betting against Viacom as a whole right now, since the stock has already traded at fairly lackluster prices over the last several years. I am not an industry analyst by the way, just an observer and a radio enthusiast.

By the way, I don't mean to suggest that I think Infinity has a track record of making very good decisions...
 
Re: reality cheq, for you sir.

> My question is, you refer to `JMK`s counterpart in the market?
> Is that WDRV? How is it their overhead outstrips their revenue?
> OR, are you referring to WCKG?


WCKG.<P ID="signature">______________

"Z"
Music Coordinator/Technical Support</P>
 
Re: reality cheq, for you sir.

> > My question is, you refer to `JMK`s counterpart in the
> market?
> > Is that WDRV? How is it their overhead outstrips their
> revenue?
> > OR, are you referring to WCKG?
>
>
> WCKG.
>
I like the Jack format, but still don't understand why they didn't flip WCKG when it turns out they bill the same as WJMK. After January 1st, CKG is dead so why didn't they flip that and just keep Stern on in the morning for the remainder of his contract. WJMK has so much heritage in this market, it's disappointing to see it go, wheras WCKG really has nothing to offer.
 
Re: reality cheq, for you sir.

After January 1st, CKG is dead so why didn't they
> flip that and just keep Stern on in the morning for the
> remainder of his contract. WJMK has so much heritage in
> this market, it's disappointing to see it go, wheras WCKG
> really has nothing to offer.
>

D,

It is called Stever.

No matter what his breakdowns are, he can't carry the station alone. <P ID="signature">______________

"Z"
Music Coordinator/Technical Support</P>
 
Re: reality cheq

>
> WJMK was rarely Top 10 25-54-- any adult station needs to be
> consistently competitive 25-54 to get revenue needed to
> succeed.
Oh Jebus Chribus, It is the #11 station and was always in top 15


While that premise SUCKS
> (and it does), it is today's ad buyer mentality. Is it a
> self-fulfilling prophecy exacerbated by radio GMs, GSMs and
> AEs--YES. But it is what it is.

That's BS....if you can't sell a top 15 station in market 3...you can't sell

But that wasn't the case....if I hear correctly they billed 16 mill last year....if they can't make enough money with that....there is the problem...
>
>
 
Re: reality cheq

"If radio and time buyers will ever wise-up and realize that the very lucrative
25-54 crowd they valued 10 years ago is now 35-64, our conversations about Oldies will change big-time. Until then, this IS today's (sad) reality. It is what it is. "

That's the point! The problem is with the people who refuse to wise up!
 
Re: reality cheq

> "If radio and time buyers will ever wise-up and realize that
> the very lucrative
> 25-54 crowd they valued 10 years ago is now 35-64, our
> conversations about Oldies will change big-time. Until then,
> this IS today's (sad) reality. It is what it is. "
>
> That's the point! The problem is with the people who refuse
> to wise up!

The real problem is with a national obsession with "average income" figueres rather than "Median income" figures.

In Friday's WSJ there was an article that showed that the pre retirement 50 to 55 year old age cell had median savings of $10,000 (not including any home equity). Projected to retirement, the median savings of Americans will be less than $100,000. Such a savings level can produce less than $4,000 in annual spendable income, added to Social Security at ages 62 or 65. This is not indicitive of a huge, wealthy and "anxious to change my brands" group... somethign which advertisers know.
>
 
Re: reality cheq

> >
> > WJMK was rarely Top 10 25-54-- any adult station needs to
> be
> > consistently competitive 25-54 to get revenue needed to
> > succeed.
> Oh Jebus Chribus, It is the #11 station and was always in
> top 15

I went back 13 books and the staitons was never top 10 in 25-54, and as low as 17th. Agencies don't buy 25-54 13 or 14 deep.
>
> While that premise SUCKS
> > (and it does), it is today's ad buyer mentality.

Ad buyers do not set demos for advertisers. The client and the client's marketing departmet do that.

> Is it a
> > self-fulfilling prophecy exacerbated by radio GMs, GSMs
> and
> > AEs--YES. But it is what it is.

It's the reality of targeted marketing.
>
> That's BS....if you can't sell a top 15 station in market
> 3...you can't sell

You can sell, but not the level of being in the top 10 or top 5. Every tier has a sales range, significantly higher than the lower one.
>
> But that wasn't the case....if I hear correctly they billed
> 16 mill last year....if they can't make enough money with
> that....there is the problem...

Actually, last year it billed $20 million... yet in 1997, it billed $22 million. Adjusted for inflation, that is a 30% loss in 8 years. It was down to 12th in Chicago billing, and declining. It is obvious that the declining fortunes of the station influenced the decision to change before things got worse.
 
Re: reality cheq

> Ad buyers do not set demos for advertisers. The client and
> the client's marketing departmet do that.
>

You need to spend some time in the real world here moron....Ad buyers are the marketing department....

You have obviously never sold....and never worked for a real company outside of radio...or in it for that matter.....yeah yeah...blah blah...I program spanish stations....i am so smart

must be a pretty easy gig....you spend more time on here than i do....
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom