The Alternative brand returning to actual..."Alternative"?

[WBIMDJ]

So, in recent times, the biggest complaint I've seen here on these boards, (and with people discussing in general) seems to be that the line between active/hard rock and modern/alternative rock has been blurred. You have your "modern rock" station playing stuff like Saliva, Three Days Grace and Shinedown, which in most cases belongs on the active rock station down the dial. This has been the case for quite a while now. However, especially in the past year or so, there seems to have been a shift. It seems like the modern rock/alternative brand has perhaps made a return to what it originally stood for. Being an actual "alternative" to what the other stations were playing? A simple glance at the latest top 20 Alternative chart tells that story perhaps: http://www.billboard.com/#/charts/alternative-songs?begin=11&order=position

Notice upcoming bands like The Temper Trap, The Arcade Fire, Florence & the Machine, Mumford & Sons all dominating the Top 20. Alternative heavyweights CAKE, Muse, Jimmy Eat World, Kings of Leon etc. all represented as well. And for the real shocker, The Black Keys at #1?! Unbelievable. If you told me this 2 or 3 years ago, hell even a year ago I would not have believed you for a second. Sure, there's a couple tracks from Three Days Grace and Sick Puppies in there, but for the most part it seems, at a glance, that most alternative stations are starting to revert back away from the hard rock sound that has dominated most of this landscape for the past few years. Save for a few more adventurous sounding stations across the country that have kept this sound all along, most are now following this trend, which I personally do agree with and have stated before needs to happen for Alternative radio in general.

Thoughts?

 

[XCountry285]

Where's my alternative rock/rock on CHR? I don't like this. I may as well just become a full time alternative rock listener. I flip flop between the two of them and I mostly consist my mp3 player of music that's rock and hip hop & some pop mostly rock though like every maybe 10 songs is pop & rap/hip hop

 

[AM FM listener]

This is an important observation, WBIMDJ, and I hope this trend sticks. Alternative (or perhaps more accurately, Modern Rock) was at its best when it was more of a hybrid between Rock and CHR, like it was in the 80's, more melodic, less metal. My dream would be for this trend to continue and sprout a "Modern CHR" format.

 

[butlerguy03]

Modern CHR...something I am working on right now! If that you mean add CHR "rock" with Altnerative "rock".

Example:
Good Charlotte is not on Alternative, but on CHR.
Black Keys is not on CHR, but on Alternative.

So far it seems too HotAC, but I'm working hard on it.

 

[WBIMDJ]

Modern CHR...something I am working on right now! If that you mean add CHR "rock" with Altnerative "rock".

Example:
Good Charlotte is not on Alternative, but on CHR.
Black Keys is not on CHR, but on Alternative.

So far it seems too HotAC, but I'm working hard on it.

Do you mean Lite Alternative?

 

[earshot]

I agree about the frustration about the blurring between Active Rock and Alternative. WBIMDJ, the bands you mention on the chart now looks like an improvement from recent years.

15 or 20 years ago, we'd see markets with the upstart Alternative challenging a heritage rocker. In some cases, a market may not support both. Or the two former competitors may have been merged into the same cluster and one was flipped, leaving the other to (attempt to) serve two audiences. And as has been mentioned on this board, the problem of "our" artists, like Green Day, crossing over to CHR.

It also seems Alternative went through the cycle all formats go through...where the amount of current product that would become hits, went down as compared to the 90s (I think that is still a challenge, as seen from the complaints of 90s-heavy Alternative formats). Some stations may have filled those holes with Active Rock product.

There was also the sound-alike problem. For a time, it seemed like we were pushed bands that tried to sound like Creed or Linkin Park. And while Limp Bizkit, Kid Rock and Eminem may have sold a ton of records, they also turned off some of the audience who were used to hearing Stone Temple Pilots and blink-182.

As has been said, the crop of indie bands breaking through is promising. Hopefully commercial stations and their audiences will be open to them. The exposure from webcasters and Alt Nation may help to make those songs familiar and acceptable to the Alternative audience who has been used to hearing more Active Rock product.

It may take some PDs coming up with creative formatting to find formulas that sales departments can sell in their individual markets. Kind of like making a stew. This is one is too Hot AC. This one is too CHR. This one is too Active Rock. This one is just right. From this thread, it looks like there are people who are looking for the format.

 

[butlerguy03]

Modern CHR...something I am working on right now! If that you mean add CHR "rock" with Altnerative "rock".

Example:
Good Charlotte is not on Alternative, but on CHR.
Black Keys is not on CHR, but on Alternative.

So far it seems too HotAC, but I'm working hard on it.

Do you mean Lite Alternative?

Sort of, but I want a pop/punk addition to it. Every Avenue, Good Charlotte, The Ready Set, ect. would fit nice next to Black Keys, Kings of Leon, Muse, etc. It's the secondaries and golds past 5 years that I run into trouble. Do I go 80's for tempo and feel or stick to 90's for the grung feel? Difficult to answer.

 

[radiojomo]

I found a pretty good online Alternative station named Radio ALX.
Pretty good mix of New Alt, radioalx.com

 

[SuperRadioFan]

I found a pretty good online Alternative station named Radio ALX.
Pretty good mix of New Alt, radioalx.com

Nice to hear ANYONE play The Constellations! [also heard the group as part of a Chuck TV show soundtrack]

BTW radiohomo, I noticed the 714 area code... Not you is it???

 

[butlerguy03]

I found a pretty good online Alternative station named Radio ALX.
Pretty good mix of New Alt, radioalx.com

Nice to hear ANYONE play The Constellations! [also heard the group as part of a Chuck TV show soundtrack]

BTW radiohomo, I noticed the 714 area code... Not you is it???

FriendsorEnemies.com plays them too!

 

[WBIMDJ]

Update: This week's Alternative Billboard issue (December 11) still has The Black Keys holding steady at #1 with "Tighten Up". And I'm proud to report that CAKE have their highest charting single since 1998's "Never There" with "Sick of You" hitting #5.

 

[radiojomo]

I found a pretty good online Alternative station named Radio ALX.
Pretty good mix of New Alt, radioalx.com

Nice to hear ANYONE play The Constellations! [also heard the group as part of a Chuck TV show soundtrack]

BTW radiohomo, I noticed the 714 area code... Not you is it???

I found a leaflet on my car when I was out shopping, I know they're from Orange County but no I do not operate it. I have had my failures with internet radio hahaha

 

[evolve991]

The problem started when legal and accounting departments began making decisions about music content. Its equal to letting Auto Insurance execs make decisions about Mechanical issues or Health insurors make Medical policy. Would you let the receptionist for the contractor decide where to place the main support beams and weight bearing walls in your new house? Or let the school janitor teach your kids algebra? Music lovers should be in charge of defining different styles of music.

 

[hubcity]

The problem started when legal and accounting departments began making decisions about music content. Its equal to letting Auto Insurance execs make decisions about Mechanical issues or Health insurors make Medical policy. Would you let the receptionist for the contractor decide where to place the main support beams and weight bearing walls in your new house? Or let the school janitor teach your kids algebra? Music lovers should be in charge of defining different styles of music.

Exception: ad agencies that want to identify their product with something "cool". You wind up with Gang Of Four's "Natural's Not In It" on an ad for Microsoft XBox Kinect...

 

[earshot]

Putting aside ad agencies, corporations and managers for a minute to just talk about the music...

This feels like an up-cycle for music. Especially the indie stuff and non-Active Rock crossovers. Compared with, say, four or five years ago. I downloaded several things from the national chart, as well as picking through things from XTRA, KNRK, KROX, Alt Nation and a few others. After I loaded the jukebox and let 'em roll, I enjoyed the format more than I have in several years.

Ignoring the radio side of this forum for a second to focus on the music side, we have a lot of artists to celebrate right now. There are a lot of good currents.

Back to radio, how do you convince management to drop an adult variety or classic hits format that might have peaked, and flip it to alternative? AND give the station enough time and marketing for people to find it. You have to convince them they will make money. Sales will have to learn how to sell the demos, the lifestyle and not PPM. And to reference earlier posts, the programmer has to be allowed to program without interference from people outside that don't "get it."

Programming autonomy by people who understand the format.
A GM (VP of programming, whatever) who can be convinced the format can make money.
A sales department who can sell the format.

Easier said than done. But maybe if there are enough success stories to give as examples, one by one, the number of alternative stations could rise again. There are some great tunes and creative programmers and jocks out there. We gotta figure out how they can come together and make revenue. That's when they'll start flipping signals back to Alt.

 

[radiojomo]

Putting aside ad agencies, corporations and managers for a minute to just talk about the music...

This feels like an up-cycle for music. Especially the indie stuff and non-Active Rock crossovers. Compared with, say, four or five years ago. I downloaded several things from the national chart, as well as picking through things from XTRA, KNRK, KROX, Alt Nation and a few others. After I loaded the jukebox and let 'em roll, I enjoyed the format more than I have in several years.

Ignoring the radio side of this forum for a second to focus on the music side, we have a lot of artists to celebrate right now. There are a lot of good currents.

Back to radio, how do you convince management to drop an adult variety or classic hits format that might have peaked, and flip it to alternative? AND give the station enough time and marketing for people to find it. You have to convince them they will make money. Sales will have to learn how to sell the demos, the lifestyle and not PPM. And to reference earlier posts, the programmer has to be allowed to program without interference from people outside that don't "get it."

Programming autonomy by people who understand the format.
A GM (VP of programming, whatever) who can be convinced the format can make money.
A sales department who can sell the format.

Easier said than done. But maybe if there are enough success stories to give as examples, one by one, the number of alternative stations could rise again. There are some great tunes and creative programmers and jocks out there. We gotta figure out how they can come together and make revenue. That's when they'll start flipping signals back to Alt.

I agree! Bands that have been on the indie rock scene for a while, to name a few: Phoenix, The Temper Trap, Florence + The Machine, Mumford and Sons, Metric and ESPECIALLY The Black Keys (Indie 103.1 was always a big supporter of The Black Keys) are now becoming household names and are flipping into mainstream Alt. stations. Just look at Phoenix, their tracks "1901" and "Lisztomania" have been permanent staples on the top of the charts at Alt. stations. Who knows how this happened all of a sudden?

The problem with indie rock is that it's target is generally on the lower 18-34 end, alt. stations want the 25-54 demo, and they have the pre-conceived notion that the 25-54 demo HATES new music and love to relive the times when they were jacking off listening to "Bleed" by Nirvana in the early 90's.

What Alternative needs is to keep going is to mix in new indie rock with a combination of the Alt. hits from the past decade that people are familiar with, think Modest Mouse, Weezer and a whole lot of Muse. Sprinkle in a little bit of the hits from the 90's, a strong morning show, personable DJ's that are fun and love music, great promotions and station sponsored contests and you have a format that can bill!

 

[atlantaboy]

Back to radio, how do you convince management to drop an adult variety or classic hits format that might have peaked, and flip it to alternative?

My gut says that more stations will be flipping to Alternative-based Modern AC, just cause I think Indie bands sound better mixed in with The Script than they do mixed in with Avenged Sevenfold - I think the reason Alt. ratings are struggling right now is cause the format is split between Indie stuff and Active Rock, and honestly I'm not sure they belong on the same station

But I guess Click 98.9 in Seattle is the station to watch to see if that'll happen...

Agree though that it's definitely an up-cycle for new music - I think it's just a matter of whether all these new up-and-coming bands are gonna be staples at Alternative, Modern AC, or both

 

[earshot]

Back to radio, how do you convince management to drop an adult variety or classic hits format that might have peaked, and flip it to alternative?

My gut says that more stations will be flipping to Alternative-based Modern AC, just cause I think Indie bands sound better mixed in with The Script than they do mixed in with Avenged Sevenfold - I think the reason Alt. ratings are struggling right now is cause the format is split between Indie stuff and Active Rock, and honestly I'm not sure they belong on the same station

atlantaboy, I absolutely agree. I should have made myself clearer, so thanks for making that point. Active Rock needs to be on Active Rock stations.