The AM band in Canada

[al_atl]

CFCO-630 in Chatham has a simulcast at 92.9. Oldies format. Never really understood why the simulcast, they have a great signal. Even at night the signal is pretty good...listenable in London most nights. Good signal in Windsor day and night. Of course they are directional, so maybe there was a null somewhere they really needed to fill.

 

[mjlarochelle]

If you've ever been in Chatham during the day, the 630 AM signal is somewhat impaired right in town, and that's why 92.9 FM exists. The AM signal is alright in London, but isn't fully clear until you're outside the urban area.

CKOT is now simulcasting on 107.3, with callsign CJDL-FM. CKOT has a very weak signal in the west end of London, while 107.3 has at least a moderate signal.

 

[mimo]

Isn't CFCO's fm signal just a low powered relay to fill in the gaps that 630 is fuzzy? Like the CHIN 1540 simulcast on FM (not talking about 100.7)

 

[al_atl]

Yes, the CFCO-FM signal is a lower-power. Not sure exactly what the power is...probably in the neighbourhood of 200 watts. I was told once, but forgot. I think they transmit from the top of a building in downtown Chatham. I've been to the CFCO studios, didn't notice a signal problem with the AM there. But that's my one and only visit to downtown Chatham.

Off topic...but I love the music format of the station. And the AM-Stereo sounds sooo good! It's still a mystery to me why so many stations that once had it, dropped it. There are still lots of cars with AM-Stereo radios...I have two.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

And the AM-Stereo sounds sooo good! It's still a mystery to me why so many stations that once had it, dropped it. There are still lots of cars with AM-Stereo radios...I have two.

Many AM stations that were once a music format back in the 80's are now news/talk. When you talk, who cares if it's mono or stereo.

From what I understand, various remaining AM stations that flicked off the stereo signal, while still maintaining some form of music format decided that it's actually better to stay mono, broadcasting with music that was originally recorded in mono anyway.

Feel free to think of that as you will...

 

[al_atl]

Many AM stations that were once a music format back in the 80's are now news/talk. When you talk, who cares if it's mono or stereo.

From what I understand, various remaining AM stations that flicked off the stereo signal, while still maintaining some form of music format decided that it's actually better to stay mono, broadcasting with music that was originally recorded in mono anyway.

Even talk stations could benefit from stereo. The bumper music, promos, commercials etc really sound nice. I heard a number of news/talk stations in stereo some years ago. The two that come to mind are WJR in Detroit and KMOX in St. Louis. They had promos which were produced to "show off" the stereo. One in particular I remember was on KMOX for the Cardinals. Crack of the bat out of one side, crowd roaring on the other side. Sounded awesome. And that was listening at night to the skywave signal. Probably sounded even better local. On the music stations...I'm guessing that more than 50% of the music played on 1050-CHUM and 1150-CKOC is in stereo. Maybe someone from one of those stations will read this and tell us. Both used to be in stereo, but now are in glorious mono. I can see why a company today might not want to invest in AM-Stereo (though I'd invest in that before I would the IBAC crap in the US) if you're doing news/talk, but I cannot understand why you wouldn't use it if you already have it. On a music formatted station, I would definitely do stereo. Like I say, a lot of cars out there have it...and when you tune in a station in stereo, it really jumps out at you. CFCO is a great example. I think CHUM and CKOC should turn it back on and CHWO should get it. And I even think CJCL, CFMJ, CFTR, CHML, CFRB etc should turn theirs back on. What's the harm? Oh well...that's my opinion. And worth what you paid for it.

 

[mimo]

Many AM stations that were once a music format back in the 80's are now news/talk. When you talk, who cares if it's mono or stereo.

From what I understand, various remaining AM stations that flicked off the stereo signal, while still maintaining some form of music format decided that it's actually better to stay mono, broadcasting with music that was originally recorded in mono anyway.

Even talk stations could benefit from stereo. The bumper music, promos, commercials etc really sound nice. I heard a number of news/talk stations in stereo some years ago. The two that come to mind are WJR in Detroit and KMOX in St. Louis. They had promos which were produced to "show off" the stereo. One in particular I remember was on KMOX for the Cardinals. Crack of the bat out of one side, crowd roaring on the other side. Sounded awesome. And that was listening at night to the skywave signal. Probably sounded even better local. On the music stations...I'm guessing that more than 50% of the music played on 1050-CHUM and 1150-CKOC is in stereo. Maybe someone from one of those stations will read this and tell us. Both used to be in stereo, but now are in glorious mono. I can see why a company today might not want to invest in AM-Stereo (though I'd invest in that before I would the IBAC crap in the US) if you're doing news/talk, but I cannot understand why you wouldn't use it if you already have it. On a music formatted station, I would definitely do stereo. Like I say, a lot of cars out there have it...and when you tune in a station in stereo, it really jumps out at you. CFCO is a great example. I think CHUM and CKOC should turn it back on and CHWO should get it. And I even think CJCL, CFMJ, CFTR, CHML, CFRB etc should turn theirs back on. What's the harm? Oh well...that's my opinion. And worth what you paid for it.

I'd have to agree that it's a treat for talk stations that do run stereo, when CFRB had it, the little music beds, promos and stuff sounded really amazing. It jumped out at you, and even my wife who had never heard AM stereo before she moved in with me couldn't believe that AM could sound THAT GO0D. WLS made go0d used of their stereo to0. Even as a talk station.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Well, both 1050 Chum and oldies 1150 are now in the hands of new owners, so anything can happen.

(1050=CTV inc, 1150=Astral Media)

Does it cost more to operate an AM station in stereo? If not, then why not...

 

[cyberdad]

Well, both 1050 Chum and oldies 1150 are now in the hands of new owners, so anything can happen.

(1050=CTV inc, 1150=Astral Media)

I was in Ontario on a business trip this past week, and thought CHUM sounded awful.  (Despite the voice-tracked Marc Chambers doing his best to add a little personality and "sizzle"). Sad to see this, and no wonder CHWO is cleaning their clock.  I still love hearing the "legacy" jingles and clips, but even those don't seem to fit in with the rest of the mess.

CKOC, on the other hand, still sounds halfway decent to my ears.  They at least seem to have an idea of what they want to do.

 

[al_atl]

I was in Ontario on a business trip this past week, and thought CHUM sounded awful. (Despite the voice-tracked Marc Chambers doing his best to add a little personality and "sizzle"). Sad to see this, and no wonder CHWO is cleaning their clock. I still love hearing the "legacy" jingles and clips, but even those don't seem to fit in with the rest of the mess.

CKOC, on the other hand, still sounds halfway decent to my ears. They at least seem to have an idea of what they want to do.

After CHUM switched from the failed sports talk "The Team" format back to oldies, they sounded terrible in every way. It sounded like a half-assed attempt at best. Even the technical sound of the station was bad. The stereo audio was gone, the mono audio was muddy and distorted. Believe it or not, they have improved a little since then. They did some really nice 50th anniversary programming. It sounds like someone is putting a little effort into it. True, still not enough effort. Too much voice tracking. But it's better than it was. The audio, while still mono, at least isn't muddy and distorted like it was. And I agree, Marc Chambers is not bad...for voice-tracking. Still would prefer local and live though.

CKOC isn't bad, but they have slipped. Like CHUM, too much voice tracking and automation. I don't think "Rockin'" Ray Michaels really is there live 7 days a week. Seems every time you tune in, he's on. What would that be...about 100 hours a week?! LOL! CKOC is another former stereo station that reverted back to glorious mono. They used to sound pretty good, even after they went back to mono, but now it's very tinny sounding. No low-end at all.

Even though they are disappointing, it's still nice to have music on the AM band...and on some really big signals. You don't see much of that south of the border.

 

[cyberdad]

Even though they are disappointing, it's still nice to have music on the AM band...and on some really big signals. You don't see much of that south of the border.

No we don't, and I'm thankful to the CRTC for keeping it alive at least somewhere.

I've been coming to Canada on business regularly since '93 and occasionally for about a dozen years before that. I agree with most of what you said. I agree CHUM was never quite the same after flipping back following the sports talk. But in my view it just keeps getting incrementally worse. Exception was the 50th anniversary programming. I caught some of that, and thought it was absolutely outstanding. It sounded like a true labor of love.

For whatever its worth, on my last few trips, I've found myself tuned to CHWO more often than CHUM....even though I generally much prefer "traditional top 40 oldies" to "nostalgia" (although I think its fair to say regular programming on CHWO straddles the two....and does a nice job of it).

Unfortunately, I find oldies stations in Canada (at least those that survive) are becomming increasingly bland. My former favorite (favourite?), was CKY in Winnipeg with its massive signal. Sadly, its long gone from the am band.

 

[al_atl]

Cyberdad: If you're ever in SW Ontario (or SE Michigan or NW Ohio) check out CFCO-630 out of Chatham. Nice oldies format. For a small market operation, they're not bad. Good music rotation I think you'll like. And the 10KW signal is a strong one. You can actually pick them up in the Niagara area as soon as you're away from the splatter of 640. Oh, and in CQUAM stereo and it sounds awesome!

 

[cyberdad]

Thanks for the tip....

Yes, I've listened to CFCO on numerous occasions and agree they do a fine job for a small market station. Their daytime signal is indeed impressive. Regularly listenable in Detroit, Toldeo, and even Cleveland. Even gets into a little slice of Northeast Indiana....all the way to South Bend. At night, it can frequently be heard in Northern Illinois where I live....although usually underneath KJSL (ex-KXOK) and WLAP in that order.

BTW, of the stations we've been discussing most recently here... CKOC is the only one that's a nighttime "regular" in Northern Illinois. Not a great signal, but usually strong enough to dominate the 1150 channel. CHUM is a relative rarity until you get quite a ways north of here.

 

[mimo]

That's very true, Cyberdad, even into southeast Iowa, I've heard CKOC regularly from Fairfield to just outside of Burlington, around Iowa City and it reaches every part of Illinois I've ever driven through, from Springfield to the Quad Cities to Just outside of Aurora. It will be interesting to see if they make any pattern adjustments when CJRC Gatineau/Ottawa does go off in January. Aperently they got a reprieve to stay on for a few more months. I was in Gatineau (Aylmer section) this afterno0n. I couldn't even hear the 104.7 FM signal that it's converted to, but 1150 was absolutely perfect

 

[cyberdad]

CJRC going silent means Ottawa will have more silent am's than active ones! I was in Ottawa last Wednesday and didn't notice much on either band to get enthused about.

BTW, the only Ottawa am that I've ever heard here in Illinois is CIWW/1310, which sneaks in on very rare occasions. In the daytime, they throw a modest signal into Montreal (at least the West Island), which I guess now makes them Montreal's default oldies station.

 

[mimo]

I've caught CIWW in the midwest as well, I used to get them in southeast Iowa in the 80's right around 4 to 6 pm in the fall/winter, and one night driving towards Keokuk Iowa from Hannibal Missouri, I heard them clear as a bell untill I was 10 miles south of Keokuk, by then Keokuk's local 1310 started fading in, and the 2 fought until I was about 6 miles out, it's as if they were almost capable of blowing Keokuk off the dial in it's own city. Ottawa has some very interesting radio stations, mostly of the non-commercial nature, and as far as local commercial stations I like live 88.5 the most. 580 CFRA is just horrible. Their newscasts (especially the bottom of the hour ones) have more financial and stock market news than actual headline news. The talk shows are mostly health talk, except for a couple of them. I much prefer CINW 940 for actual talk radio. I know we have one more AM coming at 1670, but I'm begining to think that they may never actually make it to air. They've been on a low powered FM for years, but their frequency (101.9) is up for auction, as is 99.7. Those are our last 2 available FM's. Any other station trying to come into Ottawa will have no choice but to go to AM, unless one of our FM'S do go under. We have enough vacated AM'S to cover a go0d spectrum of the dial (540, 630, 920, 970, and 1250). 1630 is also reserved for Ottawa and is currently being used by the Airport for info.

 

[cyberdad]

CINW's signal seems to have suffered since the CBC vacated the channel. Its still audible here (in Northern Illinois), but no longer the blowtorch that it used to be. On the other hand, the French on 690 is just as good as ever. Not great, but these days much stronger than 940. CKAC is the only other Montreal station that is semi-regular here...usually in with or under the Mexicans and the lower-powered U.S. stuff.

CFRA? Don't ever recall having heard it around these parts. Agree that its not a particularly good listen, although I've been known to tune into Lowell Green(e) from time to time.

As for 1310 in Keokuk, they used to throw a pretty decent nighttime signal to the North-Northwest. I was about 45 miles northwest of their stick, and KOKX regularly wiped out everything else on the channel, even with only 500 watts.

 

[mimo]

CINW's signal seems to have suffered since the CBC vacated the channel. Its still audible here (in Northern Illinois), but no longer the blowtorch that it used to be. On the other hand, the French on 690 is just as good as ever. Not great, but these days much stronger than 940. CKAC is the only other Montreal station that is semi-regular here...usually in with or under the Mexicans and the lower-powered U.S. stuff.

CFRA? Don't ever recall having heard it around these parts. Agree that its not a particularly good listen, although I've been known to tune into Lowell Green(e) from time to time.

As for 1310 in Keokuk, they used to throw a pretty decent nighttime signal to the North-Northwest. I was about 45 miles northwest of their stick, and KOKX regularly wiped out everything else on the channel, even with only 500 watts.

I think CINW is using a different transmitter site than the CBC was so that may make a difference in the signal strength out in the midwest at night. I found I could hear it but not as well, INFO 690 is the same now as it was in the 90's but I'd still get the former WTIX in N'awlins over top of it from time to time. I never heard CKAC in Iowa, it was always XEX Mexico City. At one point in the 90's I love "La X" and was a regular listener. KOKX can still be heard from Burlington to Mount Pleasant clearly at night, and although Burlington is about 60 miles north of Keokuk, the signal is still effectively a local signal to Burlington. Not bad for 500 watts, and even in the daytime they get out. They can make it to Springfield, but it's a stretch.

AM 740 seems to go further than I remember the old CBC going. I once them in New Orleans. Cyberdad, have you ever heard CKWX 1130 Vancouver in Illinois? I've heard it in Eastern Iowa, and that's being in KILJ Mount Pleasant's listening area.

 

[fybush]

Both CINW 940 and CINF 690 are using the former CFCF/CIQC 600 site near Kahnawahke, instead of the former CBC site in Brossard. Shorter towers, and I believe a different DA pattern for 940. Neither comes in as well here in Rochester NY as CBF/CBM did. CBF 690 used to be fairly clear here during the day. CINF is still audible, but much weaker.

 

[mjlarochelle]

Peterborough might be the next city to have no AM stations. Corus has submitted an application to convert CKRU to 96.7 FM from 980. In this case, there are a number of competing applications for that FM frequency. All from today's CRTC release.

CBC isn't planning to abandon its AM signals in Windsor though, evidenced also in today's CRTC release saying that CBC has applied for nested FM transmitters for both CBE and CBEF.