The AM band in Canada

[cyberdad]

. Cyberdad, have you ever heard CKWX 1130 Vancouver in Illinois? I've heard it in Eastern Iowa, and that's being in KILJ Mount Pleasant's listening area.

Mount Pleasant is where I went to school....before KILJ came on. I'm pretty sure I've heard CKWX once or twice around there...under WISN and (the former) WDGY. Not 100% certain, however. As for CKAC, as I said, I've heard it sneak in here in Northern Illinois, but don't ever recall it from my Iowa college days. XEX pretty much owned the nighttime channel in the late 60s, although occasionally the Dauphin, MB station would show up.

 

[mimo]

According to this weeks Fybush.com, CBA in Moncton has finally got their FM on the air as of this past week, that means we have until mid-April to hear it.

 

[chuckydoll]

CHNC-610 and CHGM-1150 have CRTC approval to move to FM (per this week's NERW). They're both on the Gaspe Peninsula in eastern Quebec.

 

[mjlarochelle]

CFCO in Chatham is still alive and well at 630 kHz, but in switching to the country format, they have rebranded as Country 92.9. FM 92.9 is a low-power repeater of the AM signal, which is only heard in Chatham itself (and is very much needed there because the AM signal is terrible in town), while AM 630 has a much larger coverage area that extends into the United States.

It also unfortunately means that here in London we have no less than 4 country stations now, in addition to CHOK (1070) in Sarnia, CJBX (92.7) here, and CJDL (107.3) in Tillsonburg. And a lot of the surrounding rural area also readily gets CHAM from Hamilton and CKNX from Wingham in addition to the four others.

 

[tomservo]

Time to ressurect this thread.

There was an off-topic discussion going on in a thread in the DX forum recently about the darkening of Canadian AMs. The topic was soliciting DX reports for 1100 AM in the Fargo, ND area, but it soon morphed into a lament about the loss of the big AM signals north of the border.

So, is the trend continuing? Last I saw, CBA Moncton switched off their big AM signal in April. Has Canada lost any more AMs?

As a fan of what AM radio can do and DXing in general, it's sad to see such a shutting down of a band like the CRTC has done. I know the northern parts of the country have subsidized access to CBC and satellite communications, but is there a reason why those vast areas couldn't be served by a network of 50kW AMs?

I was about to ask what people listen to when the drive from village to village but then I realised that there aren't much in the way of roads up there, so maybe that's why a solid signal over rural areas in unimportant! Of course, there is a pretty decent road network in the northern parts of the provinces — are those areas adequately served by local and national broadcasters?

 

[mimo]

A few more AM's have applied to go to FM, but in an interesting trend, there are applications for 3 new AM's, 2 in the Toronto area and 1 in Calgary. Montreal just got a brand new "college" (what we call campus/community up here) station on AM. Ottawa/Gatineau has a new AM about to come on in the next month or so, and Toronto is STILL waiting for AM 1650 to set up shop.

In Vanouver, one of the best AM signals is about to go dark, AM 600, but there are plans being worked on for a new station to come on at that frequency. AM may on the outset seem like it's dying up here, however, it's not going away anytime that so0n....and the CRTC isn't going to kill off the AM dial either. There have been the occasional ruling in favour of AM by denying a few FM flips.

If it were up to me, I'd make all the AMs that flipped since the flipping began go back to the AM dial, if their old frequency was still available, and take the FM format with them. Then I'd tell them if you can't make it work sell it to someone who can.

 

[tomservo]

A few more AM's have applied to go to FM, but in an interesting trend, there are applications for 3 new AM's, 2 in the Toronto area and 1 in Calgary. Montreal just got a brand new "college" (what we call campus/community up here) station on AM. Ottawa/Gatineau has a new AM about to come on in the next month or so, and Toronto is STILL waiting for AM 1650 to set up shop.

In Vanouver, one of the best AM signals is about to go dark, AM 600, but there are plans being worked on for a new station to come on at that frequency. AM may on the outset seem like it's dying up here, however, it's not going away anytime that so0n....and the CRTC isn't going to kill off the AM dial either. There have been the occasional ruling in favour of AM by denying a few FM flips.

If it were up to me, I'd make all the AMs that flipped since the flipping began go back to the AM dial, if their old frequency was still available, and take the FM format with them. Then I'd tell them if you can't make it work sell it to someone who can.

The trend still seems to be an elimation of AM in the rural areas, which is what makes so little sense. One big signal covering lots of small communities seems like a good idea...

I bet if the FM dials weren't so crowded in the big cities, they'd be losing AMs too.

 

[cyberdad]

While I'm admittedly unfamiliar with the CTRC rules, I'm a little surprised some of the abandoned am signals aren't being snapped up. Obviously not all of them....perhaps a majority of them...would make economic sense. But, for example, I'd think someone would want to get their hands on blowtorches like 580 (and for that matter 630) in Winnipeg or 540 in Ottawa. (And yes, I realize there've been a few local signals that have come and gone on 580 in Winnipeg since "KY-58" left the building.)

As for 600 in Vancouver....good to see that one's being picked up. Typically CKBD trips the scan button in a good car radio until south of Sea-Tac airport south of Seattle. And speaking of 600....why not put Montreal's CJLO there now that CFCF is long gone?

 

[Yeziknoradio]

CFCO in Chatham is still alive and well at 630 kHz, but in switching to the country format, they have rebranded as Country 92.9. FM 92.9
It also unfortunately means that here in London we have no less than 4 country stations now, in addition to CHOK (1070) in Sarnia, CJBX (92.7) here, and CJDL (107.3) in Tillsonburg. And a lot of the surrounding rural area also readily gets CHAM from Hamilton and CKNX from Wingham in addition to the four others.

820 CHAM is now Talk 820, and the new home (in Hamilton) for the Toronto Blue Jays.

 

[mimo]

I'm very curious to know just how CHAM will do as a talker.

 

[davideduardo]

While I'm admittedly unfamiliar with the CTRC rules, I'm a little surprised some of the abandoned am signals aren't being snapped up.

Few significant operators want AMs these days. Recently, Mexico announced a plan that would move 80% to 90% of all AM stations to FM, and they have started implementing with the first five states eligible right now. A number of other Latin American stations are reducing the population on the AM band, including Guatemala, Ecuador and Chile.

 

[cyberdad]

David. Very interesting...but also very understandable...about Mexico and the other Latin American countries. Are they going to a situation similar to the UK where they make use of numerous relatively low power fm transmitters (1kw, 5kw, etc.)

 

[davideduardo]

David. Very interesting...but also very understandable...about Mexico and the other Latin American countries. Are they going to a situation similar to the UK where they make use of numerous relatively low power fm transmitters (1kw, 5kw, etc.)

They are going to authorize, apparently, two classes... one in the 3 to 10 kw range and the other in the 20 to 50 kw range. I can not see anything on height, though. They will also juggle the frequencies in the big cities to allow more assignments... even MexicoCity is expected to see 10 to 12 new FMs on top of the 30 they have.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

David. Very interesting...but also very understandable...about Mexico and the other Latin American countries. Are they going to a situation similar to the UK where they make use of numerous relatively low power fm transmitters (1kw, 5kw, etc.)

They are going to authorize, apparently, two classes... one in the 3 to 10 kw range and the other in the 20 to 50 kw range. I can not see anything on height, though. They will also juggle the frequencies in the big cities to allow more assignments... even MexicoCity is expected to see 10 to 12 new FMs on top of the 30 they have.

Was there ever a time in Mexico where they'd stop at nothing to protect AM radio though?

If FM in Canada didn't have to play 49% non hits, there'd be a heavier demand to shift AM to FM alot sooner.

Then there's the rules about how many FM's a company may own.

Here in Canada it's two FM and two AM per market. (few exceptions where applicable, respectfully)

In the States, you're free to own 60% of a market!

What are the rules for Mexico...
*and* as for Canada, should the rule about two FM change so that more AM stations can go FM...or what?

Even if that rule were to change, there's still the argument about a possible over crowding of space on the FM dial here.

 

[mjlarochelle]

And honestly, there are some areas in Canada where you will never be able to get all AM stations moved to FM, even if current regulations were relaxed. There are just too many stations between Toronto and Buffalo for every single AM station in Toronto to move to FM, and at this point any further AM-to-FM moves would have to be on fairly low power frequencies.

As for London, it would be very difficult since it is sandwiched between so many big signals from Detroit and Toronto, and I anticipate the CBC will eventually want a frequency to expand the Espace Musique network to the region. There are some slots towards the lower end of the dial (88-91 MHz) that could be used for Class A or B signals, so Espace Musique and one or two existing AM stations could move to FM, but I'm not sure all three AM stations could move to FM. Both 98.1 and 91.1 are allocated to London for some recent applications, but I anticipate only one of them will get used, leaving the other one free.

I have never liked the mass shift of AM to FM, as AM has much better coverage than FM. FM is certainly better for music, but I honestly don't care about the difference in quality with talk and sports. It used to be you could listen to CBC on 740 from London to Belleville, but now you have to go from 93.5 to 89.1 to 99.1 to 98.7. Never mind trying to memorize that, even a radio geek like me took years to memorize those four. And I still can't remember the one in Chatham, it's 88 something. Of course now there's also 1550 from Windsor which reaches Chatham but that might not be much longer.

 

[mjlarochelle]

While I'm admittedly unfamiliar with the CTRC rules, I'm a little surprised some of the abandoned am signals aren't being snapped up.

Few significant operators want AMs these days. Recently, Mexico announced a plan that would move 80% to 90% of all AM stations to FM, and they have started implementing with the first five states eligible right now. A number of other Latin American stations are reducing the population on the AM band, including Guatemala, Ecuador and Chile.

That doesn't surprise me with Mexico, because I know some areas still have the majority of their stations on AM. One town I am familiar with has three AMs and two FMs, and all but one FM signal are owned by the same company. The other FM station is a repeater of the statewide public radio network.

 

[audioguy]

If you read Fybush, it seems like there's an AM signing off somewhere in Canada just about every week. I think that's a shame for a country that has such vast rural areas. Driving through the Canadian Rockies, eastern BC, and northern Manitoba, there are many km's of highway where you just can't pick up anything in the daytime except on AM. Just a few clicks out of town, and the small CBC repeaters just go away.

I think one problem faced by Canadian AM's that hasn't been discussed in this thread is the huge amount of night time interference from south of the border. Especially with all of the IBOC interference, I would imagine that many AM channels are totally trashed after dark. One time when I was traveling around lower mainland BC I was surprised to discover that many of the local AM's couldn't even be heard 10 km out of town once the QRM from the states started pouring in at sunset. By the way, AM IBOC is horrible; I hope Canada manages to avoid this scourge.

I am one of those who lament the shutdown of the big CBC AM's. I grew up listening to CBL 740 and I really felt sad when they turned it off. And now I can't hear CBW anymore, due to IBOC interference. But the programming on Radio One has changed a lot, and it's no longer of much interest to me. On the other hand, CKDO and CFRY are regulars here in northern Illinois, although CFCO seems to be losing out to the others on that channel.

 

[gr8oldies]

What did the CRTC consider a "non hit"? Nobody likes the song? Play it in heavy rotation!

 

[mimo]

A non-hit is what it sounds like, a song that didn't make the charts on one of 3 recognised charts. I can't remember what the charts were.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

A non-hit is what it sounds like, a song that didn't make the charts on one of 3 recognised charts. I can't remember what the charts were.

I believe one of them was billboard.