The Best and the Worst CHRs

[kms575]

Hey Folks,
on the best/worst CHR stations... other than the liner package...
why do you vote like you do?? I see a few who disagree on some.. and agree on others.

Personally, I base my picks on the production and elements that the station uses (sweepers, jingles, jocks, music flow, etc.). I think a lot of people are instead basing it entirely on the music and playlist. But to me, as a long time radio fan, it's the stuff in between the songs that makes or breaks a station for me. If a great playlist is all you are judging by, then why not just load up an iPod.

I guess that may make me a bit old school, but I can deal with a weak playlist a lot more than cheap, boring production. I guess that's why I'm not impressed with some of the picks people have listed (WILI comes to mind. I streamed them the other night after seeing them listed here and wasn't impressed at all. I thought the sweepers and production were really cheap and basic sounding. On the other hand, someone mentioned WWST Knoxville as being one of the worst, bit I disagree and think they sound good, production wise. They are a bit adult leaning, musically, so I'm guessing that's why the person disliked them.

Anyway, everyone has their own criteria, but for me, it's all about the production.

In terms of production, check out Kiss 95.7 (WKSS). They have none! Less is more, right? Not in this case...

 

[CHRles]

Okay, okay okay. Let's see what to respond to first.
While WSNX 104.5 Grand Rapids does lean heavily on Rhythmic hits it's still on the CHR/Pop panel. So are Channel 95-5 Detroit, 106.9 K-Hits Tulsa, Wild 102.9 Reno, Kiss FM Medford.

Second, Kiss 95.7 Hartford did sound great in the mid 90s, but its unfair to blame CC for their current style or ratings - it's when a Hip Hop leaning Rhythmic CHR was introduced to the market that Kiss took a nosedive. WKSS is still a great CHR with good jocks, a "play all the hits" approach, and good flow of music.

Lastly, KISR may play a lot of songs deemed as stiffs when looking at the national CHR/Pop charts, but this is a successful heritage CHR. It's sitting pretty with nearly a 7 share in the ratings (good for third overall) and was able to force B-98 out of the CHR game awhile back. The station WORKS, plays all styles of CHR/Pop hits, and takes a chance on a lot of records. I personally wouldnt classify them as one of the country's worst CHRs, not even close.

 

[BRH]

One I would definately add to the worst list is WXXL Orlando. Horrible sweepers and production.

 

[The Truthsayer]

Okay, okay okay. Let's see what to respond to first.
While WSNX 104.5 Grand Rapids does lean heavily on Rhythmic hits it's still on the CHR/Pop panel. So are Channel 95-5 Detroit, 106.9 K-Hits Tulsa, Wild 102.9 Reno, Kiss FM Medford.

Second, Kiss 95.7 Hartford did sound great in the mid 90s, but its unfair to blame CC for their current style or ratings - it's when a Hip Hop leaning Rhythmic CHR was introduced to the market that Kiss took a nosedive. WKSS is still a great CHR with good jocks, a "play all the hits" approach, and good flow of music.

Lastly, KISR may play a lot of songs deemed as stiffs when looking at the national CHR/Pop charts, but this is a successful heritage CHR. It's sitting pretty with nearly a 7 share in the ratings (good for third overall) and was able to force B-98 out of the CHR game awhile back. The station WORKS, plays all styles of CHR/Pop hits, and takes a chance on a lot of records. I personally wouldnt classify them as one of the country's worst CHRs, not even close.

KISS 95.7 must be better than KC-101 because KISS beat KC in its own market. KISR's playlist is even more bizarre than the Doc's station's playlist. KQID also has a bizarre playlist full of stiffs.

 

[JimmyJames]

KISR has a lot of heritage in that market, is live and local, and on top of everything that happens during a severe weather situation. They're serving their market and community doing radio the old fashioned way. Nothing wrong with that.

I'm very familiar with the region in which Q93 - KQID broadcasts. They're a heritage CHR who have always run a fairly broad playlist. It fits the area and the listeners like it.

Truth, if it's a stiff for you then don't play it. But I wouldn't presume to speak for what's a stiff for KQID or KISR. One of the things that makes this business dull at times for the listeners AND jocks is that our stations often don't reflect "local" so much as "national." And that's a shame.

But then I happen to enjoy KKCK as well, and I've spoken to many listeners from their market who dig the playlist, the jocks and the contests. They're a lot more enthusiastic about KKCK than they are about your station (the ones that are even aware of yours.)

 

[porkythepig]

KKCK's "live and local" most of the time.  I heard them reading severe warnings the other night.  They run a couple syndicated shows on the weekends (OHP and Rick Dees) and voice track overnights I think, that's about it.  It's a heritage CHR that doesn't feel the need to spin their songs 160 times a week and takes a few chances on music, which are deemed "stiffs" if you go by the charts.  They have a one-of-a-kind Sunday night alternative rock show that's truly cutting edge for the conservative region of southern MN and eastern SD.  Like alot of other small market CHRs, they play a big variety of music, but still focused on the hits.  Some stations, including them, can play their powers 65 times a week.  Is it perfect?  No, but it isn't a bad CHR.

Both Hot 104.7 and 'KCK do well in the respective areas and adults in their mid 20's and older in the Sioux Falls market, who grew up with them, are still pretty aware (and still check out 99.7 from time to time) because it was the only CHR option in the 90's, besides KG95, which is now Hot AC, which didn't have as strong of a signal (and now non-existant in SF because of 95.7 today).

Hot's live during the week except overnights when Dawson Mcallister is on, but completely voicetracked/syndicated on weekends... which I wouldn't be surprised with Billy Bush being on there soon.

 

[The Truthsayer]

Do you want to know why stations play songs 160 times a week? There is an actual formula, that is dead on perfect when trying to calculate the speed of your records in all categories. And much to my amazement, few PDs and/or consultants actually use this formula to determine spins. The ones that do are smart. Tight playlists always win, especially in CHR.

It's called OES = Optimum Effective Scheduling, if I were to try and explain the WHOLE thing I would write a novel of a post. But look it up, you can Google it and find all you would need to know. It was devloped years ago to determine the amount of spots an advertiser would have to run in order to get his message out to the whole cume of the radio station they were buying. Pretty interesting stuff.

CHR = Contemporary Hit Radio
Contemporary means now, not seasonal tunes like "Ghostbusters" or some Bon Jovi song from 1986 on an "old school lunch", JStew and Doctor_Radio, which I'll get to that on a minute. Hit means its a hit, a song high on the charts which gets strong research, not a stiff. Radio is the medium it's presented on. Most people programming CHR stations are smart and know what the hell CHR is. Jimmy James, a guy named jan jeffries adds the songs on numerous CHR stations including mine. He is a smart programmer and nice guy.

Twelve noon is one of the highest cuming hours of the day, why play anything but the hits?? I agree with taking a different approach, i.e. mixshow, mid-day countdown, but bang the hits no matter what. Who knows what new cume you could have punching in. Don't counterprogram a retro lunch on an AC or Hot AC, which fit those respective formats, by doing the same damn thing on your "current" CHR!! Why don't AC/Hot AC stations play Fall Out Boy, Kardinal Offishal, and Rihanna at noon for a "specialty hour"? Exactly my point, Stew and Doc.

Sittin at a Bar by Rehab, The Resolution by Jack's Mannequin, Angels on the Moon by Thriving Ivory, and a lot of other stuff they play are stiffs. Those three titles are being played on doc's and/or Stew's stations, which both report "CHR" to the trades.

 

[The Beave]

Porky...

You are so onto it. 8)

Let me know if you need an A/T-APD. ;D

 

[Beejus]

What I said are truths since my name is THE TRUTHSAYER.

Are you talking about the "truths" you claimed about Movin 93.9 in LA or WABB in Alabama, or are you talking about the "truths" you claimed about Metro Station and Secondhand Serenade being "stiffs"?

Do you want to know why stations play songs 160 times a week? There is an actual formula, that is dead on perfect when trying to calculate the speed of your records in all categories. And much to my amazement, few PDs and/or consultants actually use this formula to determine spins. The ones that do are smart. Tight playlists always win, especially in CHR.

Then explain to me why Q102 in Philly, who spins their top songs around 150 times a week is losing (and watching the gap in the ratings grow larger) to Wired 96.5, who spins their top songs about 90-100 times a week?

 

[JStew]

CHR = Contemporary Hit Radio
Contemporary means now, not seasonal tunes like "Ghostbusters" or some Bon Jovi song from 1986 on an "old school lunch", JStew and Doctor_Radio, which I'll get to that on a minute. Hit means its a hit, a song high on the charts which gets strong research, not a stiff. Radio is the medium it's presented on. Most people programming CHR stations are smart and know what the hell CHR is. Jimmy James, a guy named jan jeffries adds the songs on numerous CHR stations including mine. He is a smart programmer and nice guy.

Twelve noon is one of the highest cuming hours of the day, why play anything but the hits?? I agree with taking a different approach, i.e. mixshow, mid-day countdown, but bang the hits no matter what. Who knows what new cume you could have punching in. Don't counterprogram a retro lunch on an AC or Hot AC, which fit those respective formats, by doing the same damn thing on your "current" CHR!!Why don't AC/Hot AC stations play Fall Out Boy, Kardinal Offishal, and Rihanna at noon for a "specialty hour"? Exactly my point, Stew and Doc.

Sittin at a Bar by Rehab, The Resolution by Jack's Mannequin, Angels on the Moon by Thriving Ivory, and a lot of other stuff they play are stiffs. Those three titles are being played on doc's and/or Stew's stations, which both report "CHR" to the trades.
[/quote]

Do you realize how songs get ON the chart and how they move up? You think Z100 would've added Secondhand Serenade if it didnt have a track record? Rehab for a 7 day is up 135+ spins and moved 50-48...has potential and we are getting requests from listeners, you know the audience? BTW we are spinning Thriving Ivory once a day....in OVERnights...where we are not rated.

So here's what we played in our Old Skool lunch yesterday....seems pretty tight for how bad you think we are.

12:02 PM SPECIAL PROGRAMMING Old School Lunch - -
12:03 PM SUGAR RAY Someday 1999 G
12:07 PM JAGGED EDGE Let's Get Married 2000 G
12:11 PM KID ROCK Bawitdaba 1998 G
12:14 PM BIZ MARKIE Just A Friend 1989 G
Stop Set BREAK Commercials And/Or Recorded Promos
12:23 PM DMX Party Up 1999 G
Stop Set BREAK Commercials And/Or Recorded Promos
12:32 PM DESTINY'S CHILD Independent Women 2000 G
12:36 PM SAVAGE GARDEN I Want You 1996 G
12:40 PM TAG TEAM Whoomp! (There It Is) 1993 G
12:45 PM THIRD EYE BLIND Jumper 1997 G
12:49 PM USHER My Way 1998 G
12:53 PM SPEARS, BRITNEY Outrageous 2003 G
12:56 PM 2 PAC Keep Ya Head Up 1993

JStew

 

[BRH]

The Rehab "Sittin' in a Bar" song gots tons of spins on Sirius's CHR channel, "Hits 1", so it must not be a stiff for them on a national level. But satellite radio is strongest in rural markets and this is where this particular track is strongest IMO. That's why several smaller market stations are on this one.

As an aside, I think Sirius does an incredible job with the CHR format on their "Hits 1" channel. They play several tracks that other CHR's pass by and are quick on oddball crossovers like a few country records and so forth. (They were also very early on Kid Rock's monster hit "All Summer Long".) They seem to be really in touch with the heartland and program a CHR format that is specifically tailored to that.

 

[Roger That]

Then explain to me why Q102 in Philly, who spins their top songs around 150 times a week is losing (and watching the gap in the ratings grow larger) to Wired 96.5, who spins their top songs about 90-100 times a week?

The fact that they spin their records that fast is not the reason why they're losing.

 

[Roger That]

Do you realize how songs get ON the chart and how they move up? You think Z100 would've added Secondhand Serenade if it didnt have a track record? Rehab for a 7 day is up 135+ spins and moved 50-48...has potential and we are getting requests from listeners, you know the audience? BTW we are spinning Thriving Ivory once a day....in OVERnights...where we are not rated.

Just a couple thoughts on this...

RE: your listeners who call in...it CAN be a decent gauge, especially if it's overwhelming, but I wouldn't base much of your programming on the VERY small percentage of your station that are actually willing to call the station.

RE: Thriving Ivory...if you're only spinning it once a day in the overnight, avoiding times where you're rated, why play it at all? Please don't say "to warm it up." If your audience isn't hearing it, it won't get warm.

 

[jsu5381m]

JStew, that's exactly what an old school lunch should be for today's target audience. In another post, I had suggested if someone has to have 80s hits for a retro lunch, it needs to be 80s and 90s retro lunch. Not just early 90s, I mean the whole decade as well.

 

[Roger That]

The Rehab "Sittin' in a Bar" song gots tons of spins on Sirius's CHR channel, "Hits 1", so it must not be a stiff for them on a national level. But satellite radio is strongest in rural markets and this is where this particular track is strongest IMO. That's why several smaller market stations are on this one.

As an aside, I think Sirius does an incredible job with the CHR format on their "Hits 1" channel. They play several tracks that other CHR's pass by and are quick on oddball crossovers like a few country records and so forth. (They were also very early on Kid Rock's monster hit "All Summer Long".) They seem to be really in touch with the heartland and program a CHR format that is specifically tailored to that.

Well...we've established that it fits YOUR tastes, but how exactly does one determine the success of this (or any) satellite channel? Arbitron? Whoops. Guess not. Financially? Aw...too soon? Subscribers? Would that be with, or without all the free 1-years that come in cars, that get canceled as soon as it has expired?

If "satellite radio is strongest in rural markets," which I would challenge you to show us ANY proof of, it still isn't saying much.

If you're basing your station (and argument) on the "hits" that a satellite radio channel is picking, you're going to have a struggle ahead of you.

 

[CHRles]

Actually, there have been some ratings figures revealed for satellite radio. The CHR stations tend to be among the highest cuming ones - both XM's 20 on 20 and Sirius Hits 1 are among the most listened to CHRs in the country.
The two satellite radio services have a combined subscription base of 15-18 million people, and most of them dont seem to be cancelling out on their subscription.
Next order of business, "The Bartender Song". Even stations like 104.5 WSNX Grand Rapids, which Truth claims is on the Rhythmic panel, have given it some spins.
Thriving Ivory's "Angels On The Moon" is a huge stiff according to Truth yet these CHRs are playing it: Mix 93.3 Kansas City, KJ 103 Oklahoma City, 97.5 WABB Mobile, 94.5 KSMB Lafayette, 107.5 KZL Greensboro/Winston-Salem, 99.7 DJX Louisville, 103.3 The Vibe Daytona Beach, Z-104 Madison, 101.1 WIXX Green Bay, 97.9 NCI Columbus, 97-7 KRCK Palm Springs, Alice 107.7 Little Rock, 104.7 WNOK Columbia, Y-101 Jackson, 98.5 Kiss FM Peoria, Fly 92 Albany, Bob 93.3 Greenville, Q-97.9 Portland, planet 102.3 Corpus Christy, and 103.3 kiss FM Boise.
Gee, I don't remember Truth mentioning any of these stations. He must have forgotten.

The problem with guys like Truth is that they've been brainwashed and force-fed overly researched information that was at one time relevant for some markets. It's never true for all markets, and times change. He cant seem to think outside the box, and he cant seem to read between the lines when a consultant on some internet website advises the industry on what to do.

Oh, and I too think it's ridiculous that Q-102 Philly is playing its biggest records a zany amount of times per week. At least in the 80s CHRs didnt hold on to their songs for 6 months in a row. The airplay and playlist charts moved faster so even if a song was being banged like crazy it was usually only for a couple of weeks.

 

[Roger That]

Actually, there have been some ratings figures revealed for satellite radio. The CHR stations tend to be among the highest cuming ones - both XM's 20 on 20 and Sirius Hits 1 are among the most listened to CHRs in the country.
The two satellite radio services have a combined subscription base of 15-18 million people, and most of them dont seem to be cancelling out on their subscription.

Not debating that. I'm debating the relevance in each local market. They're still an incredibly small share at the local level, and for a board that is OBSESSED with "live and local," I'm amazed that using anything like this as an argument would ever enter in.

 

[porkythepig]

Roger, are you saying "live and local" is bad thing? Just curious.  :

Chrles, there may be 17 million people listening to Satrad, and millions more listening online, but terrestrial radio STILL attracts more than 230 million listeners.

 

[Roger That]

Roger, are you saying "live and local" is bad thing? Just curious. :

Here we go again.

Live and Local is great if you can really do it well. Most don't. Don't believe me? Listen to your local radio station. They probably suck at it. Most don't have a clue what local is, aren't tapped in or serving their community, and spend more time stroking their own egos than caring about what their audience wants.

My guess is you'll have a tough time believing that, or can come up with some "good" example in Minot or something, but I challenge you to stream a "local" station and "local talent," even in bigger markets, and see if there's anything they do that you couldn't just pick up and set down in another market, and lose NOTHING.

The biggest irony is people who whine about cookie cutter radio, and yet just because there's a jock who happens to live there, it doesn't actually make them local. It makes them just as cookie cutter as the bigger, syndicated talent that they hate.

My point is, if a jock isn't being local, and a syndicated talent is more entertaining, and delivers more of what your audience is coming to you for, what would you choose? "The Office" isn't filmed in Fargo...wanna bet it's still a popular show there?

To pointedly answer your question: No, "Live and Local" isn't a bad thing. What is a bad thing is assuming that just because you have a $22k/year jock in the studio, it matters to your audience. Roll your eyes all you want, but if you want to hold onto "live and local," actually BE it! Few are.

P.S. you can be almost 100% syndicated, and still be more local than the other bad radio stations in your market. Consider a PR director instead of an APD. Someone who's the face of the radio station in the community, and who has a local-focused hour or two in the evenings or on the weekends to actually serve the community. Would be a different approach than some nondescript midday ****** talking about something he thinks is funny, but isn't.

 

[The Truthsayer]

Hey Stewie, the passive listener doesn't know what "dayparting" is so if they even hear some stiff that's only played at like 3 in the morning, they assume they play it regularly, since you're a CHR. Even during a non-rated hour, it can cause lower cume/TSL/ratings.

Listeners don't care about live and local. They just care about their favorite music, and sometimes their favorite jock if he/she is entertaining.

Consultants ALWAYS know more than you, the idiot PD. So listen to them for once, they can fix your station!