The Best and the Worst CHRs

[JimmyJames]

Aren't you the ones claiming the "listeners" want what your respective corporations put out? Evidently Fort Smith enjoys KISR. And you never know when live and local makes a difference if you aren't live and local at the moment you need to be. Great radio cannot always be pre-scripted.

 

[Kent]

It's good to see someone agree with me on KHTT. I listen to the stream whenever I get a chance. They go against the corporate radio rules and it seems by listening and pictures on their website that Tulsa is passionate about them.

I hated, and I mean HATED, KHTT's predecessor KAYI "KAY-107" when growing up. They're CHR competitor, KMYZ "Z-104.5," was also terrible. In fact, both stations soured me on CHR to the point that, almost 20 years later, I still don't listen to the top-40 format all that often! From what I heard, Naragansett bought 106.9 for $7 million, which was an unbelievable sum of money in the mid-80's, and only got $1.6 million for it when they sold it to Renda in 1993. They were originally going to sell it to Riverside Communications for that $1.6 million, but that deal fell through. Good thing, too, because Riverside was apparently going to take it country, and Tulsa didn't need another country station (but they got another one anyway right after Renda took over KAYI when KSTM became Kick 99).

I haven't heard KKHH much but from what I've heard people are saying they sound really good?

KKHH is the classic case of a station that sounds great to critics but not so much to the general public, at least not yet. It kind of reminds me of when I worked at KTXY in Jefferson City/Columbia about three and a half years ago. My PD kept telling me I needed to do more phoners, but, when I did, he kept telling me I was airing too many kids. I pointed out that there was no way I could air anything but kids because they were my only callers! That seems to be what's happening to KKHH.

KMCK is a good example of what corporate radio has done with radio. They now have a syndicated morning show which from what I've heard does really well but also have a syndicated night show now as well so the personality this station once has is gone. I think two dayparts are local now.

While Cumulus has certainly been a negative for KMCK, I never found it to be that great of a station. I actually preferred former competitor KCIZ "KC-105." However, KMCK pretty much won that battle on signal strength alone. KCIZ's 1,000 watt signal just couldn't reach the audience in Fayetteville without great difficulty. I went to school at the University of Arkansas for much of my college, and KMCK never impressed me. It was always a very play-it-safe CHR.

 

[wxman76]

While Cumulus has certainly been a negative for KMCK, I never found it to be that great of a station. I actually preferred former competitor KCIZ "KC-105." However, KMCK pretty much won that battle on signal strength alone. KCIZ's 1,000 watt signal just couldn't reach the audience in Fayetteville without great difficulty. I went to school at the University of Arkansas for much of my college, and KMCK never impressed me. It was always a very play-it-safe CHR.

I personally thought KMCK sounded pretty good back in the early/mid 90s back when it was locally owned (Hochman, I think?). At least its playlist was a lot more varied and more interesting to me back when Mike Chase was PD than it does now. They experimented with some new ideas like simulcasting part time with 97.9 out of Fort Smith and carrying the then newly syndicated show "Open House Party". Agree with lowpower that Cumulus has soured that station and sounds very cookie cutter and uninteresting compared to say 15 years ago.

Since some other Arkansas CHRs were mentioned, I'll chime in....

It is very easy to an outsider to call KISR in Fort Smith the worst CHR in America. I agree to a certain extent, as its formula does sound dated compared to national standards. Fred Baker Jr. has a very unorthidox style morning show for a CHR. At times, it sounds more like a full service station combining music with news/talk/information. I do not know of any CHR that covers severe thunderstorms and tornadoes like KISR does. And yes....it does have a quite a following there. You oughta be there when they do those city wide treasure hunts (example: find the golden egg). I'm not sure if they still do those, but it really captures the peoples attention (and not just the target demo) when they did that. Even though it is poorly imaged compared to the national scene, I admire that Fred Baker Sr. hasn't sold out and has always had this attitude of we are going to do things our way, not what the consultants say we should do.

I agree that KLAL (Alice 107.7/Little Rock) is a great smaller to medium sized market CHR. Heather and DC morning show have developed a good following there. The music has a slight adult/rock lean, but I think it is more balanced than say KRBE or Star 94. They play some records that most CHRs don't. About the only CHR that is still playing Simple Plan "Your Love Is A Lie" in heavy rotation. I heard them even play Mercy Me "I Can Only Imagine" as a gold last week!

 

[NoWayNoCC]

It sounds to me like this conversation has turned into this: "Big markets, good. Small markets, bad."

Weird, because I always preferred small-market stations (provided they were live and local).

 

[porkythepig]

It sounds to me like this conversation has turned into this: "Big markets, good. Small markets, bad."

Weird, because I always preferred small-market stations (provided they were live and local).

just because small market stations don't have the polish of the large market stations, doesn't make them bad. There are good and bad small market stations just as there are good and bad large market stations.

 

[NoWayNoCC]

Also, the small-market stations traditionally have had wider playlists. I remember around 1984, Billboard used to list all the new songs added by each station on its Hot 100 panel. The big-market stations like WLS, WKRQ, or WBSB usually had maybe 2 to 4 new songs each week, while the small-market stations like WOMP, WVSR, KISR, or KCDQ had maybe 6 to 10. There were exceptions, but this was a general rule.

 

[The Truthsayer]

It sounds to me like this conversation has turned into this: "Big markets, good. Small markets, bad."

Weird, because I always preferred small-market stations (provided they were live and local).

just because small market stations don't have the polish of the large market stations, doesn't make them bad.  There are good and bad small market stations just as there are good and bad large market stations.

Why wouldn't you WANT to be polished? Why would you leave any obvious differences between yourself and, for example, a Z100 or any other big market CHR that your listeners might hear on a weekend shopping trip / vacation / etc? That line of thinking is the one thing about small market programmers that annoys me the most.

A lot of really BAD stations only do well because they are BIG FISH IN A LITTLE POND. Therefore with less competition, you don't put as much effort in sounding good since you'll probably get good ratings anyway, so most of the bad stations are in smaller markets, it's just how it is. Quit trying to debate about live vs. not, listeners don't care about live and local, they want to be entertained by music and the jock. Most normal people check the weather forecast on the Internet or on TV, so the radio rehashing it isn't very important.

Also, the small-market stations traditionally have had wider playlists. I remember around 1984, Billboard used to list all the new songs added by each station on its Hot 100 panel. The big-market stations like WLS, WKRQ, or WBSB usually had maybe 2 to 4 new songs each week, while the small-market stations like WOMP, WVSR, KISR, or KCDQ had maybe 6 to 10. There were exceptions, but this was a general rule.

They want familiarity, not unfamiliarity. Every new song starts out unfamiliar to your station's P1s at first, BUT they do freshen things up if new songs are played sparingly. Being first on songs doesn't matter. Unless you like to brag. No one listening cares that YOU played it first. They just care that you play the songs they want to hear. If you are in a small market without adequate research, it's BETTER to be conservative as in to play more (hit, not stiff) recurrents and to play it safe by being late on adding songs, therefore your adds are already hits. That's why the Mediabase Top 40 chart was made, I recommend waiting until it reaches 30-25 or even bigger before adding it in most cases (it is also the Cumulus philosophy). Besides, everything moves slower outside of the big cities so it doesn't really matter.

I can't think of many instances where the conservatively programmed station didn't win by a large margin. Get most listeners very far from their "comfort zone" and they'll be gone.

 

[NoWayNoCC]

I can't think of many instances where the conservatively programmed station didn't win by a large margin.

Most of the conservatively programmed stations had a much better signal.

 

[The Truthsayer]

I can't think of many instances where the conservatively programmed station didn't win by a large margin.

Most of the conservatively programmed stations had a much better signal.

lol lol lol!  Thanks for the laughs. ;D

 

[NoWayNoCC]

I can't think of many instances where the conservatively programmed station didn't win by a large margin.

Most of the conservatively programmed stations had a much better signal.

lol lol lol! Thanks for the laughs. ;D

WKRQ versus WCLU (in the 1980s) for instance.

 

[The Truthsayer]

I can't think of many instances where the conservatively programmed station didn't win by a large margin.

Most of the conservatively programmed stations had a much better signal.

lol lol lol!  Thanks for the laughs. ;D

WKRQ versus WCLU (in the 1980s) for instance.

You said, "Most of the conservatively programmed stations had a much better signal."

You made a laughable generalization in your sentence, assuming MOST win by signal. Which is definitely NOT the case. You are right that there are cases where the signal is a factor in performance.

My philosophy for CHR is simple: Play certified hits and win.

 

[Adam Rivers]

I think some people that have posted in this thread don't realize a few things.

- Talent and market size are not correlated. There are some great jocks in small markets, and some boring jocks in big markets. It depends on who and what you know. Of course, there are more better jocks the larger market you go, but many jocks (example Jackson Blue from Kiss 106.1 in Dallas, who recently left WXKS after doing nights there, prior to that he was at 96.3 The Rose/WRZE down the Cape) are doing/have done a good job in small markets. Of course, there are bad ones as well, but that's the case in small market radio.

- Same deal with programmers.

- There are some very good small market stations that sound much bigger then stations in much bigger markets. National revenue/rates are sometimes the only major difference between a station in market #44 and market #186.

The radio landscape continues to change. Those who do good radio will stay at the top. Those who don't will fall.

www.adamrivers.com

 

[Kent]

I personally thought KMCK sounded pretty good back in the early/mid 90s back when it was locally owned (Hochman, I think?).

Actually, Tate Communications out of Brownsville, TX owned it for about half of the 90's. George Hochman was the GM, and he bought it from Tate in '95. He also got Tate's LMA of the former KREB-99.5 and converted it into a purchase 2-2.5 years later. I believe there was also a sales deal with KBRS 104.9, and Hochman eventually got the rights to sell KAMO AM/FM in Washington County. He converted those to outright LMA's and purchases after the law changed in '96. Hochman's buying his boss out lead to the very quick rise of the Power Radio Group.

At least its playlist was a lot more varied and more interesting to me back when Mike Chase was PD than it does now.

I preferred the old 102 Kiss to Power, but I got to Fayetteville in January '94, which means I only got to listen to 102 Kiss for about a month. I also preferred Z-98.3's CHR format to Power, but Z's owners only gave it one book.

They experimented with some new ideas like simulcasting part time with 97.9 out of Fort Smith and carrying the then newly syndicated show "Open House Party".

The simulcast was probably the most boneheaded thing Tate ever tried. Of course, compared to what a lot of owners have done, both before and since, it was probably pretty minor. However, B-98 came very close to forcing KISR out of the format with its own version of CHR for Ft. Smith. Most of the people on this board would probably say B-98 was just as bad as KISR, but it worked very well in Ft. Smith. KISR filed bankruptcy in either '90 or '91, and Tate's changes at 97.9 drove KISR straight back to the top while leaving 97.9 an irrelevant station with no more than a license to sell. I remember that garbage it ran in transition right after Westark bought it as "97.9, the station that let's you be the star" for several months before finally giving way to hot AC/CHR "Star 98."

Let's also don't forget Music Channel One, which the station launched under Tate after ABC's "The Heat" wimped out to AC. That one may have been a little more interesting. It never really got very many affiliates for a lot of reasons, but it was very ambitious to say the least!

You oughta be there when they do those city wide treasure hunts (example: find the golden egg). I'm not sure if they still do those, but it really captures the peoples attention (and not just the target demo) when they did that.

I remember they were going to do some kind of contest that they had to cancel because of high waters on the Arkansas River, and a lot of people got really upset. I'm thinking it was a kite flying contest, but it's been so many years, I can't remember. I remember the voiceover, though, of a guy sounding like he was underwater when he was reading it!

 

[Mid West Clubber]

Thanks Doctor Radio, you dont list my station, but you list our COMP..... THANKS>>>>lol :'(

 

[luvcoors]

- Talent and market size are not correlated. There are some great jocks in small markets, and some boring jocks in big markets. It depends on who and what you know. Of course, there are more better jocks the larger market you go, but many jocks (example Jackson Blue from Kiss 106.1 in Dallas, who recently left WXKS after doing nights there, prior to that he was at 96.3 The Rose/WRZE down the Cape) are doing/have done a good job in small markets. Of course, there are bad ones as well, but that's the case in small market radio.

Networking is pretty important if you want to land a gig in a larger market... there's a lot of people who shouldn't be where they are, but they are because of WHO they know. And there's people with the talent who can't land gigs in large markets because they don't have the connections. Everyone has to start out somewhere.

now onto favorite Top-40 stations (no particular order):
Kiss 95.1 Charlotte
KDWB MSP
Z100 NYC
RadioNow 100.9 Indy
Hot 99.5 DC
Kiss 106.1 DFW
WNCI Columbus
KIIS LA
Z107.7 STL
Q100 ATL

You're about 10% right about networking...it helps to have the right people notice you. However...it's your work, perception by others, ratings, etc. that truly decide how and when you move up the ladder.

 

[jradiod]

They want familiarity, not unfamiliarity. Every new song starts out unfamiliar to your station's P1s at first, BUT they do freshen things up if new songs are played sparingly. Being first on songs doesn't matter. Unless you like to brag. No one listening cares that YOU played it first. They just care that you play the songs they want to hear. If you are in a small market without adequate research, it's BETTER to be conservative as in to play more (hit, not stiff) recurrents and to play it safe by being late on adding songs, therefore your adds are already hits. That's why the Mediabase Top 40 chart was made, I recommend waiting until it reaches 30-25 or even bigger before adding it in most cases (it is also the Cumulus philosophy).

But you must remember that your P1s don't just get their music from your station, or just radio either.

 

[Roger That]

You're about 10% right about networking...it helps to have the right people notice you. However...it's your work, perception by others, ratings, etc. that truly decide how and when you move up the ladder.

x2

 

[Roger That]

But you must remember that your P1s don't just get their music from your station, or just radio either.

But the majority still do. When you're talking about people willing to fill out Arbitron Diaries, which...let's face it, are the lowest common denominator on the tech ladder (still have a home phone, still own pencils, willing to take the time to actually fill it out), the majority of them still get new music from radio first. This is even more true the smaller the market.

 

[The Truthsayer]

You're about 10% right about networking...it helps to have the right people notice you.  However...it's your work, perception by others, ratings, etc. that truly decide how and when you move up the ladder.

x2

They want familiarity, not unfamiliarity. Every new song starts out unfamiliar to your station's P1s at first, BUT they do freshen things up if new songs are played sparingly. Being first on songs doesn't matter. Unless you like to brag. No one listening cares that YOU played it first. They just care that you play the songs they want to hear. If you are in a small market without adequate research, it's BETTER to be conservative as in to play more (hit, not stiff) recurrents and to play it safe by being late on adding songs, therefore your adds are already hits. That's why the Mediabase Top 40 chart was made, I recommend waiting until it reaches 30-25 or even bigger before adding it in most cases (it is also the Cumulus philosophy).

But you must remember that your P1s don't just get their music from your station, or just radio either.

My philosophy is simple: Play certified hits and win. It only takes ONE song for a listener to change stations, and who says they'll come back?

doctor_radio won't be going to a bigger market anytime soon because his station sounds SMALLER than the market size and is atrocious period. You don't keep your core doing 80's weekends that they call "old skool" (saved for another discussion), an 80's "old skool" lunch, or playing ANY 80's songs period. Many Hot AC's across the country are dropping their 80's library, but one can count on the mighty 99.7 (which is a CHR) to fulfill their fix for Dexy's Midnight Runners, Bon Jovi & seasonal tunes like "Ghostbusters."

Anyone that thinks they can survive in a market outside of Marshall with the music selection (the jump all over records that utter stiffs) of their bonehead MD (trust me it's just a title, no brains) needs help! An out of market CHR, which sounds BIGGER than their market size, is probably beating them.

The reason why KCK jocks post on this site are because they live in the "fantasy world of radio". Any moron can learn how to do "crap radio" at the Marshall CHR....

What "skills" are you going to learn there? Name me another station that sounds as screwed up? Tell me of an educational benefit that may stick out of this?

Their rules and philosiphies on radio are truely unique. Any fruit loop can open up the mic. and talk.... or perhaps put a CD in to a player.... There is more to radio than that. But what about the formatics? Hmmmmmm.........Somebody needs to tell the their college staff to go back across the street to college station KSSU. Let's get someone else in there....

 

[Beejus]

It only takes ONE song for a listener to change stations, and who says they'll come back?

EVERY song you play is going to make people tune out. There is no song out there that will keep EVERY single listener tuned in.

My philosophy is simple: Play certified hits and win.

With this philosophy, why aren't you programming a CHR?