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The Big Switch
- Thread starter jmtillery
- Start date
On paper it should be WHTQ. They are dead last 12+ among the full-market FM signals. But apparently Cox is content to have the station as it is, providing some male 18-34 numbers to add to their female-heavy mix of Star, Party, K92 and WMMO (plus they have WDBO on the AM side). So it won't be them.
On paper, again, the second choice is WLOQ. Smooth Jazz is vaporizing as a format nationally. However, on paper, Gross should have sold the station years ago and didn't, so it won't be them.
There's been a lot of speculation about Mix 105.1 going CHR. But that field is already crowded with XL, Party and 102 Jamz. Plus Mix is currently CBS' highest rated station in the market. Sunny 105.9 has never really gained that much traction as a classic hits station and they probably split audience with Mix.
The four holes in the market are FM News Talk, FM sports talk, Country and (given the fact that non-comm WPOZ is actually the #1 station in the market, you just can't see it in the publicly released 12+ numbers), Contemporary Christian. CBS has done numerous FM sports talk startups in the past 18 months with results ranging from spectacular in Detroit to awful in Pittsburgh. Orlando would be tough because there's only one local pro team to talk about.
What CBS would really like to do is sell the entire Orlando cluster. They're basically just waiting for the credit markets to loosen up to the point where someone can actually get some financing. If they are sold you could see changes at both Mix and WOCL.
And although I think this probably would have happened already if it was going to happen, I wouldn't put it past ABC/Disney to buy the CBS cluster and put Radio Disney and ESPN Radio on big FM signals just as a PR tool for the attractions.
On paper, again, the second choice is WLOQ. Smooth Jazz is vaporizing as a format nationally. However, on paper, Gross should have sold the station years ago and didn't, so it won't be them.
There's been a lot of speculation about Mix 105.1 going CHR. But that field is already crowded with XL, Party and 102 Jamz. Plus Mix is currently CBS' highest rated station in the market. Sunny 105.9 has never really gained that much traction as a classic hits station and they probably split audience with Mix.
The four holes in the market are FM News Talk, FM sports talk, Country and (given the fact that non-comm WPOZ is actually the #1 station in the market, you just can't see it in the publicly released 12+ numbers), Contemporary Christian. CBS has done numerous FM sports talk startups in the past 18 months with results ranging from spectacular in Detroit to awful in Pittsburgh. Orlando would be tough because there's only one local pro team to talk about.
What CBS would really like to do is sell the entire Orlando cluster. They're basically just waiting for the credit markets to loosen up to the point where someone can actually get some financing. If they are sold you could see changes at both Mix and WOCL.
And although I think this probably would have happened already if it was going to happen, I wouldn't put it past ABC/Disney to buy the CBS cluster and put Radio Disney and ESPN Radio on big FM signals just as a PR tool for the attractions.
Parttimer is right, in certain ways I'd like to see somebody go up against K-92FM not that Orlando couldn't use another urban Black hip-hop or Spanish outlet, WPCV over in Lakeland has a pretty good following both in Polk County and in Orlando in the country arena and one more wouldn't hurt, WHTQ, should be bulldozed, but its too good of a tax write-off for Cox and most likely the more they loose the more they make.
Mix 105.1 it seems has remained viable for all these years, although I'm not privy to any numbers, and then there's SUNNY 105NINE FM and we've seem them come full circle I don't know how many times, Cool 105.9, Power 105.9 some kind of new wave, SunnyFM and now Sunny 105NINE FM and little else has changed.
WLOQ has always sounded pretty good to me in the jazz format, maybe clean it up, and from time to time add a little island music flair, Bob Marley types might work if not over done.
Orlando is ripe for the pickins and with a whole variety of formats to choose that may or may not work, nevertheless I'm sure we're going to find out very shortly.
Mix 105.1 it seems has remained viable for all these years, although I'm not privy to any numbers, and then there's SUNNY 105NINE FM and we've seem them come full circle I don't know how many times, Cool 105.9, Power 105.9 some kind of new wave, SunnyFM and now Sunny 105NINE FM and little else has changed.
WLOQ has always sounded pretty good to me in the jazz format, maybe clean it up, and from time to time add a little island music flair, Bob Marley types might work if not over done.
Orlando is ripe for the pickins and with a whole variety of formats to choose that may or may not work, nevertheless I'm sure we're going to find out very shortly.
My top choice would be WHTQ 96.5 to flip first, but I'm not sure what they would flip it into.
I really wish they'd bring back "Party", but that probably won't happen.
BTW, why do you people call WPYO 95.3 "Party"? Don't you all know it's now called "Power"?
Next in line would be WJRR 101.1 flipping to "Gen-X", which would allow Cox to skew WHTQ to newer rock.
It really depends on what numbers they project when Orlando goes PPM in October.
I have a feeling that "Sunny 105.9" will look good & "Smooth 103.1" will look not so good.
I really wish they'd bring back "Party", but that probably won't happen.
BTW, why do you people call WPYO 95.3 "Party"? Don't you all know it's now called "Power"?
Next in line would be WJRR 101.1 flipping to "Gen-X", which would allow Cox to skew WHTQ to newer rock.
It really depends on what numbers they project when Orlando goes PPM in October.
I have a feeling that "Sunny 105.9" will look good & "Smooth 103.1" will look not so good.
DJ Mo said:
PPM measurement started in Orlando on June 24th, and we are already in July Week 4 at this moment. In about 3 weeks, subscribed stations will have the July book as "pre currency" but you can believe that the data will be used of PPM based adjustments in programming.
After the first pre currency book, stations will get weeklies and another pre currency book for August, and then the September book will be currency, triggering the pre currency data to be released, too.
So the market is PPM now!
These are all very good responses, and thank you to each of you for your opinion and input.
I agree there are several format wholes in the market, and I, too, believe news-talk, sports and country would be excellent choices for any FM format switch. I had not given CCM much thought, but, considering WPOZ has done so well in the ratings, CCM may not be a bad idea as a format for one of the bigger commercial Orlando FMs.
WPCV is in a good position to take on K 92 as 97.5 FM has a very good primary signal over metro Orlando. However, I believe most Orlando radio listeners still think of 97 Country as a Polk County station although branding and position can change that to include Orlando and all of Central Florida.
Let's consider for a moment all of these suggestions come to fruition, what happens to the news-talk and sports AMs - WYGM, WDBO and WFLF? Simulcast existing programming on FM? Flip to time brokered, ethnic or religious programming? Donate the stations to a college, school or other educational or non-profit entity? Or do the licensees simply shut off the transmitter and return the license to Washington?
Your thoughts?
I agree there are several format wholes in the market, and I, too, believe news-talk, sports and country would be excellent choices for any FM format switch. I had not given CCM much thought, but, considering WPOZ has done so well in the ratings, CCM may not be a bad idea as a format for one of the bigger commercial Orlando FMs.
WPCV is in a good position to take on K 92 as 97.5 FM has a very good primary signal over metro Orlando. However, I believe most Orlando radio listeners still think of 97 Country as a Polk County station although branding and position can change that to include Orlando and all of Central Florida.
Let's consider for a moment all of these suggestions come to fruition, what happens to the news-talk and sports AMs - WYGM, WDBO and WFLF? Simulcast existing programming on FM? Flip to time brokered, ethnic or religious programming? Donate the stations to a college, school or other educational or non-profit entity? Or do the licensees simply shut off the transmitter and return the license to Washington?
Your thoughts?
DJ Mo said:
In the Ocala/Gainesville market we have a 100kw FM operating on 93.7 that was once CHR and had the call letters WMMZ, known as Z93. The station only lasted for eight years between September 1986 and March 1994. Over the past 16-years this same FM frequency has been WOGK, known as K Country 93.7. However, I still refer to WOGK as Z93 although it has been K Country twice as long as it was WMMZ. The reason, I believe, for this kind of thinking is Z93 made a huge impact on me and the market when it first went on the air. It may possibly be that many who still refer to "Power" as "Party" feel the same way as I do regarding the former Z93. Both stations made very profound and huge positive impacts in each of our respective daily lives, so "Party" is remembered to Orlando as Z93 is remembered fondly by me.
jmtillery said:
WPCV has taken a couple of runs at the Orlando market over the years but never caught on. I think you're right, they're perceived as a Lakeland station. Flip 105.9 to country and I think you've got a better shot.
540, 580 and 740 are all legitimate signals, so they will survive in some form or fashion. Besides, they are owned by big companies, there won't be any of them going dark anytime soon. That doesn't mean they won't be running brokered programming (CC makes some pretty good money doing that with 1250 WHNZ in Tampa), but those signals will be on the air. The low-powered graveyard stuff is another story.
As far as Country goes, other than K92.3, I usually can pick up these stations:
WKTO 93.1 Crow Country very well from Downtown Orlando up I-4. I was jammin' to "Itty Bitty" yesterday. ;D
WOGK 93.7 K-Country from Ocala is clear from Altamonte to Disney. I was jammin' to "Boot Scootin' Boogie".
WPCV 97.5 Country is clear everywhere pretty much.
WHKR 102.7 The Hit Kicker I can pick up every now & then from Downtown Orlando to the east.
And WFUS US103.5 from Tampa is clear from Downtown Orlando to the west.
Anyone else think a flip to something other than Country or Talk is possible?
WKTO 93.1 Crow Country very well from Downtown Orlando up I-4. I was jammin' to "Itty Bitty" yesterday. ;D
WOGK 93.7 K-Country from Ocala is clear from Altamonte to Disney. I was jammin' to "Boot Scootin' Boogie".
WPCV 97.5 Country is clear everywhere pretty much.
WHKR 102.7 The Hit Kicker I can pick up every now & then from Downtown Orlando to the east.
And WFUS US103.5 from Tampa is clear from Downtown Orlando to the west.
Anyone else think a flip to something other than Country or Talk is possible?
Parttimer said:
Other than WSDO in Sanford, I don't see any other graveyard-frequency AMs in the MSA.
DJ Mo said:
The subscribed stations will get the full data file that they will get later for currency months. In other words, all the demos, all the reports, all the stations. The only difference is that the data can not be used for sales at this point.
The software can do hour breaks, half hour breaks, even quarter hour ones...
DavidEduardo said:
I was generalizing a bit, but I think many of the smaller facilities and daytimers have limited futures... WOKB, WPRD, WEUS, whatever 1190 is now.. I'm not as sure of the calls as I used to be, a lot of these facilities have changed since I lived in Orlando in the 90's....
The subscribed stations will get the full data file that they will get later for currency months. In other words, all the demos, all the reports, all the stations. The only difference is that the data can not be used for sales at this point.
The software can do hour breaks, half hour breaks, even quarter hour ones...
[/quote]
Wow. The whole kit & kaboodle of data on software. Thanks for the info, David.
jmtillery said:
Not yet. 104.1 is doing better than the conservative lineup on 540.
When Clear Channel wrestled Rush away from DBO they thought it would kill DBO. Didn't happen, because a lot of DBO's audience, which already liked Boortz, stayed there and stayed with Clark Howard instead of going to find Rush. CC also didn't put enough around Rush and Beck, and the fact that Hannity is also still on DBO makes that even harder.
Philips is a long time local fixture on 104.1 and he would not fit a conservative format.
Plus if you took the current programming off of 540 there's nothing else you could put there that would generate numbers like what they have now. So in all that move would be a net loss for CC, probably a substantial one.
JMTillery or parttimer could answer this, who owns the better numbers? WFLF, WDBO, or WTKS
although TKS is FM what say you?
although TKS is FM what say you?
Stormychuck said:
Unless I'm missing something relevant, WDBO has higher 12+ numbers than WTKS with WDBO ranked 5th place with a 5.0 while WTKS is ranked 11th place overall with a 3.9. If we break it down further and look exclusively at 25-54 adults or some other desired breakdown we'll see a different set of numbers for each station. I'm very interested in seeing how the forthcoming PPM numbers may be different from the diary rankings.
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