The clock really may be ticking for Classic Rock on KLOS

[CaliRadioFan]

The facts are these: Cumulus has just started up a "Nash Icons" music label based out of Nashville that ties in with their "Nash FM" format. They have New York City, but with this much invested, LA is needed. Yes, we have a country music station, but keep in mind, in Detroit, Cumulus blew up the Adult Hits "Doug FM" to compete with the powerhouse country music station there (WYCD). "Doug" had about the same audience cume as KLOS does now at the time of its demise.

 

[davideduardo]

The facts are these: Cumulus has just started up a "Nash Icons" music label based out of Nashville that ties in with their "Nash FM" format. They have New York City, but with this much invested, LA is needed. Yes, we have a country music station, but keep in mind, in Detroit, Cumulus blew up the Adult Hits "Doug FM" to compete with the powerhouse country music station there (WYCD). "Doug" had about the same audience cume as KLOS does now at the time of its demise.

At the moment, KLOS is billing 60% more than KKGO; there is a very, very small Country cume potential in the market.

Nash as a national brand is one thing... but the bulk of station sales is not from network buys. It is from spot sales and those buys are based on audience delivery at a local level.

LA is 43% Hispanic and even 2nd and 3rd generation Hispanics are very low indexers in use of country. Then there are 8% Black and 12% Asian where little listening can be expected. Add in about 10% first generation immigrants that are neither Hispanic nor Asian (Persian, Russian, etc) and you only have a small group where country might be part of the lifestyle.

 

[AM FM listener]

I don't know about Country but i do wonder how much longer there can be 2 Classic Rock stations here. For all the same reasons David E mentioned, Classic Rock's future in LA seems limited. I'm thinking KLOS could go Hot AC. KAMP showed they can hang with KIIS, perhaps KLOS could do the same against KBIG.

 

[Thomps2525]

And how many songs does KLOS share with KSWD and KRTH? If classic rock's future is indeed limited, could the reason be that there are two stations playing the same songs over and over and over and over and over? And many of those songs are also played on the third station over and over and over and over and over. David, do you think KLOS could succeed with an Americana/alt-country format? And they could still play Neil Young and Lynyrd Skynyrd.

 

[TheBigA]

David, do you think KLOS could succeed with an Americana/alt-country format? And they could still play Neil Young and Lynyrd Skynyrd.

If there's a genre that attracts an older audience than classic rock, it's Americana. Hardly anyone under 60 listens. And even worse, it's a very small, old audience. It would be an even tougher sell than KUSC. It's a cool, hip non-commercial format. But very tough for advertising.

 

[Unregistered]

In fairness, a lot of the acts that are indie hip have Americana leanings or sound. Those find success with younger people - but generally not the younger people listening to mainstream radio. Although - Mumford & Sons? Pretty successful and folky.

 

[AM FM listener]

And how many songs does KLOS share with KSWD and KRTH? If classic rock's future is indeed limited, could the reason be that there are two stations playing the same songs over and over and over and over and over? And many of those songs are also played on the third station over and over and over and over and over. David, do you think KLOS could succeed with an Americana/alt-country format? And they could still play Neil Young and Lynyrd Skynyrd.

I would throw Jack FM into that mix, making it 4 stations with considerable overlap. Of those 4 stations, I would miss KLOS the least if we were to lose one of them to a different format.

 

[Element9]

The clock is ticking on every format, and radio as a whole. The formats that survive are/will be those that adapt and evolve due in large part to current content, CHR, Urban and Country. Unlike these formats, Classic Rock, Classic Hits and Oldies don't 'evolve.' By nature, these formats rely on dated, albeit genuinely good, authentic music which appeals to listeners who are aging out of the 25-54 demo. Nothing wrong with aging, mind you. It beats the hell out of the alternative. Although country is active and new, a previous poster makes a good case for Nash having a tough go in the market.

 

[TheBigA]

Although country is active and new, a previous poster makes a good case for Nash having a tough go in the market.

The other variable is that certain formats go through cycles. For example, country is hot now. There have been times when the format has been a struggle. A lot of stations jumped on country during the early 90s with the Garth boom. Later in the decade, the format settled down, and it was harder to have success with the format. Cumulus is jumping on that bandwagon now, but it won't last forever.

 

[hm insulators]

Could KLOS become an all-metal station like the late KNAC?

 

[davideduardo]

Could KLOS become an all-metal station like the late KNAC?

KNAC went out with a 1 share in the diary survey and several years of operating losses. In the PPM world, it could not generate the cumes necessary to even crack a 1 share and the listener base has aged considerably.

In other words, no way.

 

[radiocph]

KNAC went out with a 1 share in the diary survey and several years of operating losses. In the PPM world, it could not generate the cumes necessary to even crack a 1 share and the listener base has aged considerably.

In other words, no way.

Maybe stick it on HD2...

 

[Thomps2525]

Speaking of classic rock---which we have been; you can go look---today I heard the Monkees' first hit on KSWD. Yeah, the Monkees! Maybe with KRTH no longer playing very many 1960s songs, classic rock stations might attract a bigger audience by playing more '60s hits. When KCBS-FM first switched to Rock & Roll Oldies in 1993, they played the Grass Roots, Paul Revere & the Raiders and other pop groups who aren't normally played on classic rock stations. Of course that was two decades ago. Would playing more '60s hits help classic rock stations? Or would it hurt?

 

[TheBigA]

Would playing more '60s hits help classic rock stations? Or would it hurt?

Hurt, because it drives up the average age of the audience. As we've said many times, advertisers don't use radio to target seniors.

 

[AM FM listener]

Hurt, because it drives up the average age of the audience. As we've said many times, advertisers don't use radio to target seniors.

I know the ideal sales demo is 25-54 year-olds but it has been that way for decades. Given the aging of the baby boomers, how come the target demo never gets any older, say 35-64, by now? What is it about someone when they hit 55 that makes them so undesirable for radio advertisers?

 

[TheBigA]

What is it about someone when they hit 55 that makes them so undesirable for radio advertisers?

That's really a question for advertisers, not someone in radio. But what they tell me is it doesn't just happen at 55. It's probably been a longer process. But as one ages, it becomes harder to sell someone through radio advertising. It takes more spots, which cost more money, so they'd rather use TV. From what I hear, it's worse with boomers, who really hate advertising and have the money to pay for commercial free music services like Sirius.

 

[LKellerIII]

I know the ideal sales demo is 25-54 year-olds but it has been that way for decades. Given the aging of the baby boomers, how come the target demo never gets any older, say 35-64, by now? What is it about someone when they hit 55 that makes them so undesirable for radio advertisers?

That's really a question for advertisers, not someone in radio. But what they tell me is it doesn't just happen at 55. It's probably been a longer process. But as one ages, it becomes harder to sell someone through radio advertising. It takes more spots, which cost more money, so they'd rather use TV. From what I hear, it's worse with boomers, who really hate advertising and have the money to pay for commercial free music services like Sirius.

Sounds like you're describing me. I'm over 55, and don't listen to commercial radio as much as I used to, though I haven't ponied up the money for Sirius/XM. I mostly listen to my MP3 player for music. Music radio stations now run those 6 or 7 minute long commercial breaks, so when the stop-set starts, I just change the station. The advertising load on News Radio stations is atrocious, so I mostly listen to NPR for news.

Notice how many commercials on TV are for cars - I don't know the percentage of the total, but it's got to be high - often 2 or 3 for competing brands in a commercial break. Aside from the obvious fact that you can't show how pretty a car is on the radio, many of the TV ads DO target baby boomers, among others, because we have the disposable income to buy cars.

 

[TheBigA]

Aside from the obvious fact that you can't show how pretty a car is on the radio, many of the TV ads DO target baby boomers, among others, because we have the disposable income to buy cars.

Not just any cars, but LUXURY cars. At one time, Classical stations got the Mercedes ads, but they're gone.

How many times do you see Fred Thompson selling those reverse mortgages on cable?

 

[Art Landing]

Why are Seniors not good targets for ad campaigns? And the younger generation becoming resistant as well? It is possibly part of a larger paradigm shift in society.I will be interested in this audience's reaction to the thesis presented below.

Very few people of any age group today know the name Edward Bernays, but in the last century he was the father of the entire field of modern advertising and public relations. For his amazing history see this article in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays . His theories, based on research of his uncle, Sigmund Freud, and others basically postulated that the majority of human beings were like sheep who could be manipulated by cleverly and repetitively playing on desires for pleasure and fear of discomfort.

This may well have been true for his Uncle's study subjects, who were by default all residents of Austrian mental facilities. But, as others have pointed out, they were not representative of society as a whole. Those of presumably better mental health are also motivated by more altruistic drives. Regardless of this defect Bernays successfully implemented his theories for politicians including Woodrow Wilson and Calvin Coolidge, various corporations and even political causes of his own choosing.

Today's advertising approaches are still largely based on Bernay's theories - but the target groups are no longer sheep. Many seniors by virtue of experiance become resistant to manipulation over time. The younger generations are now following suit. They have access both to one another through social media and all sorts of alternative information through the internet.This is making increasing numbers both mote aware of attempts at manipulation and more resistant to being manipulated.

These trends are making life difficult for successful advertising campaigns based on manipulation in any media genre. Fancy jingles, glitzy pictures and unique promotions can still generate single purchase impulse buys. However, we are gradually shifting away from being a purely consumerist culture. We are fearful of what the facts, not advertising campaigns, tell us. Seniors and millennials alike increasingly are not willing to incur debt just to have things "now." The days of P. T. Barnum ("there's a sucker born every minute") are, some hope, passing away.

This new paradigm is based on competing information sources, not just propaganda ( a term Bernays disdained in favor of "public relations because of its WW1 connotations). It is perhaps why you see mote products being promoted thru radio and Internet informercials - it is an information marketplace.

 

[TheBigA]

They have access both to one another through social media and all sorts of alternative information through the internet.This is making increasing numbers both mote aware of attempts at manipulation and more resistant to being manipulated.

I don't know about that. The key word in social media (and advertisers are aware of this) is TRUST. Millennials are looking for trusted sources for their information. If someone they trust says to buy something, they will. And debt isn't a deterrent.