The coming FM IBOC power increase

[Radioman100]

Well, since it seems to be a foregone conclusion in this forum that "corporate radio" can get whatever it wants at the FCC, I think it's pretty safe to say the 10dB IBOC power increase being secretly tested on a few FM HD stations now will eventually be for everyone.

I started listening to the HD of a 100kW rimshot that's between 70 and 80 miles from my office a few days ago. I can get it with no dropouts on a Receptor HD using a simple single wire antenna, not even a dipole. I'm effectively receiving a 1,000W station from 70-80 miles away!

That's pretty incredible. A 1,000W analog station wouldn't stand a chance from that distance. I'm wondering how a 10,000W IBOC FM signal will perform... I bet it does better than its 100,000W analog counterpart.

 

[Link]

It will be interesting to see how the reception improves with the power increase. It may still be disappointing because of the nature of the modulation scheme used for the IBOC. (I read that somewhere). Wouldn't that be someting if they raise it and it still sucks?

 

[Chuck]

It will be interesting to see how the reception improves with the power increase. It may still be disappointing because of the nature of the modulation scheme used for the IBOC. (I read that somewhere). Wouldn't that be someting if they raise it and it still sucks?

It will also be interesting to see what it does to it's adjacent and second adjacent channel neighbors.

 

[Radioman100]

It will be interesting to see how the reception improves with the power increase. It may still be disappointing because of the nature of the modulation scheme used for the IBOC. (I read that somewhere). Wouldn't that be someting if they raise it and it still sucks?

If 1,000W can make it 70+ miles, I have a lot of faith in 10,000W.

A friend of mine has done some informal testing with one of the +10dB test stations and says it's phenomenal.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

What stations are testing the +10dB HD increase? Is it only FM-HD, or any AM-HD stations?

 

[hipporadio]

This was bound to make an appearance... The IBOC gang first curries-favor at the FCC, for their defective and destructive scheme, with the sales pitch that; “It’s just at this low power—and we can’t do too-much harm at this level.” THEN, when it “doesn’t work” [and the big-bucks are in the mill]—they run back to Charlie with their tails down and ASK FOR MORE... Completely predictable!

WHEN will the regulatory body charged with maintaining the “public interest” STAND-UP to the narrow self-interest of corporate radio and JUST SAY NO?

Do we need a witch in the White House to arrive at this common sense?

 

[Radioman100]

What stations are testing the +10dB HD increase? Is it only FM-HD, or any AM-HD stations?

I could tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya.

No, seriously, I only know about one and that's just because a friend of mine heard about it, checked it out and told me about it. I've been told there are more though. Personally, I'm glad the nutjobs here have no idea which stations they are. I can tell you there have been no interference complaints mentioned here about this station or its first adjacents. They'd surface for sure if they knew. It's all we'd hear about. As it is though, this station and its first adjacent compadres just keep quietly doing their thing and the nutjobs are none the wiser.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

The writing was totally on the wall for this deal. Great, I've already lost a few first-adjacent FMs which are nearly equidistant to me from the Chicago stations that now cover them. I'm guessing I'll lose a couple more (one that I really like) when this happens. On the plus side, I hopefully won't have to fuss with the antenna quite as much to get the 40-mile-distant Chicago HD Radio signals.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

The more power and interference HD radio adds, the sooner it will disappear.
HD, please "up your power" to multi-megawatts NOW! I dare ya. The sooner the better.
Let's get this totally unnecessary, undesirable, useless, unproductive HD noise over with quickly.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

The reason I ask if the power increase includes AM is that I'm now getting partial HD locks on a AM station that I couldn't even get to lock in it's city of license before! Either they 'fixed' something, or increased their digital component?

Hint, Radio Disney, 50KW directional days, < 30KW nights, 910KHz.

 

[jras20]

Wow that would be nice! Right now I can pull in Houston analog great with a dipole antenna. I wonder if that is what KKBQ is doing? They seem to be the best and strongest signal I can get.

BTW: What Interference HD are you talking about? I'm not hearing it. In fact, I am about 12 miles from a C1 (KBPA) class HD radio signal here at my home place, and I can still DX to Jack FM In Houston, and KOUL in Corpus. My analog radios work great as well as far as DX'n.

 

[w9wi]

Well, since it seems to be a foregone conclusion in this forum that "corporate radio" can get whatever it wants at the FCC, I think it's pretty safe to say the 10dB IBOC power increase being secretly tested on a few FM HD stations now will eventually be for everyone.

I wonder how many stations won't be able to implement this...

I already know of one (FM) station whose IBOC implementation has been delayed by transmitter site cooling issues, and that's with 1% IBOC power. (high-level combiner)

If I'm understanding the technology properly, going to 10% IBOC power with high-level combining will require the IBOC transmitter have the same power output as the analog transmitter - doubling the cooling (and utility power) requirements.

(maybe more than doubling it? Doesn't IBOC require linear amplification, which is less efficient than the Class C operation practical for analog FM?)

 

[rbrucecarter5]

WHEN will the regulatory body charged with maintaining the “public interest” STAND-UP to the narrow self-interest of corporate radio and JUST SAY NO?

Do we need a witch in the White House to arrive at this common sense?

Well, I doubt the Hilary Clinton supporters would appreciate you describing her as a "witch" - but perhaps the democrats will be more concerned with the interests of rural, fringe area listeners than the republicans. But I doubt it - both parties are about money and you can bet the democrats will take the bribes from Ibiquity, too. And the FCC will rubber stamp any ridiculous proposal they suggest. As long as minority ownership is correct, which seems to be their only function these days.

An IBOC power increase is an un-called for increase in interference. IBOC FM stations are bloated spectrum hogs as it is - eliminating first adjacent reception for suburban listeners who prefered an out of market station. Less choice is never a good thing. As for AM - the sidebands are so pervasive and robust, I am surprised every nation on earth is not complaining about interference from the US. There seems to be no limit on how far these sidebands go - increasing the power on them is ridiculous! I can hear sidebands from stations I have NEVER received the analog portion of. Even dyatime, I can hear some sideband pairs 1000 miles away. If they can't get information to lock 20 to 30 miles away, its not the fault of the power levels - it is the fault of the algorithms they are using. With that level of robustness - you could theoretically decode IBOC from 1000 miles - as long as the sideband pairs are present, there should be no need for the analog portion or even the carrier.

 

[clouseau]

... both parties are about money and you can bet the democrats will take the bribes from Ibiquity, too.

Please provide credible evidence of said bribes.

We've all heard this ridiculous assertion many time from Nutballs, Cuckoos and Idiots. I'll assume you are not among them.

Please provide documentation, evidence or some type of indication this actually happened.

Thanks

Clouseau

 

[hipporadio]

Well, I doubt the Hilary Clinton supporters would appreciate you describing her as a "witch" - but perhaps the democrats will be more concerned with the interests of rural, fringe area listeners than the republicans...

rbruce... I’m a white-collar-in jeans & tee [former] Republican-turned-Libertarian—or “Loser-tarian” according to a certain whaked-out Salem network talk show host I have yet to cast a vote for the G.O.P. in a Presidential election in this century. BTW—I owned radio stations during all eight-years of “Bill”—‘n business WASN’T that bad! Here’s my “political parallax”—I generally despise government regulation, but the de-regulated corporate radio biz is BEGGING for RE-REGULATION! ...And “Baby” – are they goin’ to get it!!! Mark Fowler needs to cover his eyes when this wave hits Washington! Corporate radio has completely worn-out its deregulatory “welcome mat”! The Bush FCC has CLEARly [pardon the pun]—been “up for sale”. The only thing they seem to get excited about is a televised “costume malfunction”.

When you enjoy that “warm ‘n fuzzy place” known as a “near-monopoly”—you get treated like the power utility!

 

[Link]

You know its great some people can hear rimshots with rooftop antennas. How about inside apartment buildings located in the central city area? That would be a better report about the increased power testing.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Please provide documentation, evidence or some type of indication this actually happened.

Oh - I am sure such bribes are a matter of public record. The people involved would be so unafraid of legal ramifications that they will be shouting the dates and amounts from the top of rooftops.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

You know its great some people can hear rimshots with rooftop antennas. How about inside apartment buildings located in the central city area? That would be a better report about the increased power testing.

Msst downtown areas are business districts. A few tens of thousands, maybe a hundred thousand people at most live in the downtown areas of most cities. For the most part, people have abandoned the high crime downtown areas for suburbs. If HD radio is aimed at central city dwellers, fine, but don't pretend that audiences stop when the zip code changes. Prime pickings for advertisers are out in those affluent suburbs.

 

[clouseau]

Please provide documentation, evidence or some type of indication this actually happened.

Oh - I am sure such bribes are a matter of public record. The people involved would be so unafraid of legal ramifications that they will be shouting the dates and amounts from the top of rooftops.

Is this from the 700 WLW school of documentation? Just admit it. There is nothing even CLOSE to documentation, credible reports or , dare I say "Proof".

To just casually throw around serious accusations like this and then laugh it off is just wrong. Morally and legally.

You assert Hillary Supporters wouldn't appreciate her being called a witch. I agree. But THAT is probably far less offensive then you calling people involved in the IBOC decision CRIMINALS.

Clouseau

 

[ve3jf]

Nothing much surprises me these days, but I find this talk of a 10X increase in digital power being inevitable pretty hard to swallow. The tradeoffs involved in setting the analog/digital power ratio were studied quite extensively during IBOC development back in the 90's. IIRC, the digital power in the late-model USADR system, upon which the current system is largely based, was set at -22 dBc. They pushed that up to -20 dBc when USADR and Lucent morphed into iBiquity, but going further than that would clearly be very iffy, in terms of both self-interference and interference to other stations. Recent Canadian studies came to the conclusion that the current FM IBOC system is already very marginal as far as interference to analog reception is concerned. You might get away with higher digital power levels in isolated cases, but in general, it would be a mess.

The very fact that such an extreme measure would be contemplated tells me that there must be widespread disappointment with the coverage achieved by the HD2/HD3 services that aren't backed up by analog.

Barry