The continued failure of HDRadio in San Diego

[SDRadio]

As an owner of three HDRadios, I am amazed on the lack of promotion by the stations. Sure, you'll hear those nifty, neat, and nice promos about HDRadio and how price has come down ... but I'm surprised on the lack of promotion by the web sites. If it is there, it is hidden or buried in the promotion for money making revenue for the station.

HDRadio is the 'loss leader' for the station. It takes a lot of $$$ to have two transmitters let alone the music fees on running two or three additional signals. Outside of the station's core transmitting area around the stick (in this case most likely around Mt Soledad, and San Miguel), HDRadio in a car -- in San Diego -- is a joke. Groove Salad on KPBS' HD3 signal is great -- but listen in the car and loose the signal you'll revert to the analog signal. Sound collusion, and consumers are not warned about that ear wreck. They think the radio is broken.

The only place I've heard sustained HDRadio reception is the LA Basin. The El Toro norte on the 5, reception is great. The 5 in San Diego county, it's hit and miss north of the 56 -- non existent in Poway -- and a crap shoot on the 78 corridor. The flat terrain is better suited there -- and most of the sticks on Mount Wilson supports the "view" or reception.

Highway 76 towards the ocean -- LA signals rule even in HD.

So, I'm still not convinced that the In Band On Channel (IBOC) standard by one company is the best way. Reminds me of AM stereo. Much to do about nothing.

 

[nocoradio]

I think streaming has quickly passed HD radio. Operators have decided if they have to promote an "alternative" way of listening" there are a lot more fish in the streaming barrel. And there are. Every phone nowadays can stream. More and more stations are developing their own streaming apps and the like. HD radio requires special hardware, and here in SD, reception is crap. I think HD radio is a has-been before it even got off the ground...(and I own one!). Of course, reception is so poor, it's useless.

 

[RadeoEngineer]

And another pair of eyes opens up. Lemme see can I 'splain a few things for ya' there Chris.

It was about a dozen or so years ago, don't remember the exact time frame, that the question of digital broadcasting for radio began to emerge. The Eureka 147 system had been proposed and to a limited degree implemented in Europe. It appeared to work and work well. Coverage limitations weren't a problem as you could have actual boosters filling in gaps that didn't cause interference. At the same time, there were several companies working to come up with various schemes of digital broadcasting for the U.S. Why didn't we just go with the Eureka system? The shadow argument was that we didn't have the spectrum. Eureka doesn't work in the FM band and the military didn't want to give up L band which is where they do things like control missiles and other things that fly and make things go boom. So about this same time, we were beginning to get demonstrations of Hybrid Digital technology at the NAB show in Las Vegas that used existing FM, and then later AM spectrum to transmit in the digital domain. So here's how the thought process went.

Me: If you're interested in digital transmission of radio signals there's going to be a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. The right way already exists and it's call Eureka 147. The wrong way is being developed right now and is going to be very complex and expensive to install and operate, and it will never work well beyond the controlled environment of a Las Vegas NAB show.

Suits: So we understand there's a spectrum issue. Where would we put Eureka?

Me: I don't really know, but there are solutions. The solution to that problem won't be found until the NAB and the major broadcasters start demanding it.

Suits: So how would Eureka work?

Me: Every AM and FM licensee would be granted a channel, placing them on an equal playing field for audio quality and to some degree coverage, although coverage could probably be worked out to hold that element somewhat equal to what it is now, or coverage could also be equalized. You guys will have to figure that one out as owners. Be aware though, that Eureka channels come in blocks. Let's say it takes one extra block of channels to get everyone covered but it leaves open 15 or 20 channels in that one block. You can bet they'll become occupied, so not only will all the AM's and FM's in a given market be on an equal playing field in terms of audio quality, you'll probably end up with a few more channels as well.

Suits: What happens to our AM and FM properties?

Me: Eventually you turn them off once there's sufficient Eureka receivers.

Suits: Hmmm. This sounds like there will be more competition for our piece of the advertising dollar and devaluation of our multi million dollar properties down to zero. We don't think we like that idea.

Me: Can't say I blame you, but I'll take the stand right now that this HD thing they're trying to feed you won't work. It's not going to be as robust as they're saying and it's going to sound like crap. I wouldn't waste the money.

Suits: But we have to be digital. TV is going digital, records and tapes have gone digital, phones are digital. How will we survive if we don't also go digital?

Me: Concentrate on quality live and local programming, do good promotions and provide a value to the listener. Nobody is demanding digital radio and no one will care when they're told they have to go out and buy an expensive non-field upgradable radio to receive the same programming they're already getting for free that also sounds just fine.

Suits: (Down the road 15 years) Well, we spent a boatload of money putting on this HD crap and nobody listens. We're running swell extra programming like "The Comedy Channel" and "The Blues Channel" and dance music and some other neato stuff but no one seems to care.

Me: Yeah, I was listening to that swell comedy channel the other day when I was driving around but it kept dropping out and going silent right at the punch line. Of course since I'm one of three people that have an HD radio it doesn't really matter much to you does it?

Suits: Yeah but at least we didn't devalue all of our properties with that evil Eureka system you were talking about 15 years ago geezer.

Me: No. You took care of that yourself by eliminating live and local, running crap cookie cutter formats, and boring your listeners to the point they're willing to pay for satellite radio or just plugging in their iPods. And even when all three of us with radios try to listen to your HD it switches between HD and analog, which is really annoying, doesn't really sound any better than the analog flavor, and sounds awful when you cut the bit rate to add comedy channels and blues channels and dance channels and whatever the rest of the poop you can throw at it to make you think it's eventually gonna work.

Suits: Did not! Uh, what's a bit rate?

Me: Exactly.

So this is why you get the wonderful experience of iBiquity Hbrid Digital Chris. Now if you want to turn off all of the analog and just run pure digital, even with the lousy iBiquity codec, it will work pretty well and sound about as good as a good MP3, which is all anyone even cares about these days, but you won't believe the outcry from the unwashed masses that have to immediately replace some billion existing radios, and I really don't want to see a government voucher for this, since the government is beyond broke. By the way, Eureka is doing well and gaining acceptance in numerous countries, and works.

And this is the truth as I mostly remember it, all of course in my always very humble opinion.

 

[radiode]

Eureka's follow-on systems are working sort-of-ok in Europe, but haven't taken over. Yet... The Canadians recently announced they are turning their Eureka digital systems off...

 

[davideduardo]

And another pair of eyes opens up. Lemme see can I 'splain a few things for ya' there Chris.

The issue today is not solved by instituting Eureka, or ceasing HD broadcasting. The issue is that listeners do not want to buy any kind of "radio" but will buy multifunction devices that consolidate audio, video, messaging, photos, conversations and gaming onto one portable, dockable device.

How many smart phones have FM? Well, even less would have Eureka in them.

Radio stations have to eventually forget about AM and FM transmitters and look to adapting their distribution to new channels, like WiMax, streaming, etc. It's no insignificant fact that on a recent battery stop at a Radio Shack there were no radios to be purchased except for a crankable emergency device that included a flashlight, cell phone charger and other functions.

And Eureka has not worked in Canada and Britain and is being phased out in a number of places it has been tried. Of course, the whole idea of an HD radio band is frightening, particularly since I live where I can make out the actual antenna structures on Mt Wilson yet I get pixellation when viewing off-air signals with not even a tree in the path.

 

[SDRadio]

Radio stations have to eventually forget about AM and FM transmitters and look to adapting their distribution to new channels, like WiMax, streaming, etc. It's no insignificant fact that on a recent battery stop at a Radio Shack there were no radios to be purchased except for a crankable emergency device that included a flashlight, cell phone charger and other functions.

Rat Shack may be going the way of Blockbuster soon. I agree with your prognostication that radio, as it exists today, will be changed in ten years -- if not sooner. Many AM stations in Canada have migrated to FM. I would think from a financial aspect that FM is less expensive in the long run to operate than AM (towers, copper, and land area).

Here, as you have pointed out, KABC cannot compete in LA because 5,000 watts today has more background noise than it did 25-years ago.

And Eureka has not worked in Canada and Britain and is being phased out in a number of places it has been tried. Of course, the whole idea of an HD radio band is frightening, particularly since I live where I can make out the actual antenna structures on Mt Wilson yet I get pixellation when viewing off-air signals with not even a tree in the path.

I don't think, David, that TV and FM HDTV and HDRadio are similar. (re: pixellation).

HDRadio isn't true digital broadcasting either (and I know you realize that too). I find it troubling that the FCC is in bed with one company on IBOC. The AM stereo was a disaster as well to let the market place decide. Well they did; practically no AM stereo stations left. While the L Band solutions that Europe is using; folks here in the U.S. only want to turn a radio on and hear their station; not go on some digital search to find something.

In all, the FCC let us down (surprised?), and the company that has HDRadio just sits back and collects a yearly fee. It's a waste of programming dollars to have a yearly 'tax' on something the consumers don't understand. It will be frustration when this HDRadio thing in cars fails too -- as consumers will tell the dealers about the 'revert back to the main signal' when the multicast broadcast fails.

In all, despite the assurances from Ibiquity, it goes into the s-can when expectations are high and the results are crap.

Meanwhile, next time at Best Buy, ask the clear clerk about HDRadio. If you don't get the glaze in their eyes, they will most likely, point you to satellite radio.

 

[barman]

Radio Shack actually has quite a variety of AM-FM radios for sale.

http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=am-fm radios&origkw=AM-FM radios&sr=1

 

[TheBigA]

I find it troubling that the FCC is in bed with one company on IBOC.

I wouldn't use the terms "in bed with" to describe their relationship with iBiquity.

If it had been that close, they would have made its use mandatory. Instead they've basically left it hanging out to dry. The system is approved, but gets no support. And it really doesn't get a lot of support from radio stations either. It all seems very ad hoc. But I don't see them as being "in bed with iBiquity." It's more like they tolerate them. They put up with them, like an annoying brother-in-law.

But yes, the FCC has made a lot of terrible decisions in the last 40 years. Every decision they make seems to be a bad one. But also making no decision also has its negative side.

 

[davideduardo]

Radio Shack actually has quite a variety of AM-FM radios for sale.

But they don't seem to stock them at retail...

 

[RadeoEngineer]

And another pair of eyes opens up. Lemme see can I 'splain a few things for ya' there Chris.

The issue today is not solved by instituting Eureka, or ceasing HD broadcasting. The issue is that listeners do not want to buy any kind of "radio" but will buy multifunction devices that consolidate audio, video, messaging, photos, conversations and gaming onto one portable, dockable device.

I'm not advocating either, although if I were an iBiquity licensee I'd sure be looking for a way out of that disaster. Other than that, I agree with what you've written.

How many smart phones have FM? Well, even less would have Eureka in them.

I don't know because I have the dumbest of dumb phones. All I want it to do is ring and I answer. I look forward to the day when it's not even something I continue to pay for and is no longer on my belt. It's a pain in my tush to remember to turn it off when I'm playing golf, just in case I get my one call a week while I'm standing over a four foot birdie putt.

Radio stations have to eventually forget about AM and FM transmitters and look to adapting their distribution to new channels, like WiMax, streaming, etc. It's no insignificant fact that on a recent battery stop at a Radio Shack there were no radios to be purchased except for a crankable emergency device that included a flashlight, cell phone charger and other functions.

Here's the problem with your argument (I suppose you mean this as an argument, or even just a statement, or a stream of consciousness, or whatever). Radio stations will never be able to turn off their transmitters in our lifetime. As you should well know, there are still lots of people that listen to bland old AM and FM radio. I do it myself sometimes. I don't doubt that streaming and wi-max is going to be a serious play that needs attention, but right now the cost of a single spigot for a single listener is pretty high. I agree that's the direction, but it also presents a serious problem to the floundering station that can't afford several thousand connections for a streaming audience.

Radio Shack hasn't sold anything but phones and batteries for a few years. That's what they do. I don't even know where you go anymore for "parts."

And Eureka has not worked in Canada and Britain and is being phased out in a number of places it has been tried. Of course, the whole idea of an HD radio band is frightening, particularly since I live where I can make out the actual antenna structures on Mt Wilson yet I get pixellation when viewing off-air signals with not even a tree in the path.

You need a better antenna. I get excellent, non-pixellating OTA reception in Melmfus, and I'm a good distance from most of the antennas. I would recommend a good two bay bow tie up about 40 feet.

In terms of where Eureka is working or not, I don't really know and I consider it irrelevant, as I stated earlier digital radio seems to be a solution to no known problem.

 

[Garrett]

I agree with Chris on this one. IBOC - A total waste.
Not to mention, if you live in cattle country (ahem), your HD radio is a total waste of money, because there are no outlets (except "NPR").

A nice idea, but a total waste.
The tap not even heard next door, or even next to your couch.

Total waste of time.

 

[johndavis]

Radio stations have to eventually forget about AM and FM transmitters and look to adapting their distribution to new channels, like WiMax, streaming, etc.

People don't listen to the radio because it's a radio. They listen to the radio to get something. There's no incentive to buy a new radio to get the same old programming.

If the radio doesn't deliver what they're looking for, they'll try to get it somewhere else.

Our job remains the same: entertain and inform, no matter how we get it to the audience.

 

[hipman2]

IBOC = It's Bound for ObsolenCe

 

[davideduardo]

If the radio doesn't deliver what they're looking for, they'll try to get it somewhere else.

Our job remains the same: entertain and inform, no matter how we get it to the audience.

Agreed on both points. But if we only deliver product via AM and FM, and the audience wants it via a different and preferred device, we are SOL.

 

[Big 121]

The numbers tell it all- Calif FM stations= 666 . Calif FMs with HD=219 (33%) ?
AM stations= 247 . Calif AMs with HD= 28 (11.3%) ?
A large % of these are in the major metro areas, with big broadcasters backing/invested in Ibiquity. Locals can't afford/won't spend for the upgrades and high yearly Ibiquity license fees.
Also, the mandatory "confidentiality agreement" required of the engineers; the sealed black box;
and when the "box" crashes, you've got NO HD....

?=Counting FMs to be upgraded. Not counting AMs that have recently dropped HD.

Big 121

 

[Big 121]

Back when the FCC was allowing nighttime "testing" of AM HD, my late night DXing came upon this trio: KLAA 830, KXNT 840, and KOA 850,
all with their HD signals on. A real mess from 817khz to 867 khz, impacting TJ's 860. This was the worst "jamming" I had heard since the U.S.S.R
was jamming the VOA broadcasts. 840 was almost obliterated, audio-wise. What were they testing for? I'm sure the engineers(including Tracey
@ KXNT) were real thrilled.
Some sanity prevailed at KLAA. The then previous owner , who was programming in SP*, sold the station, whose present owner killed HD as
soon as escrow closed.
And I haven't heard nighttime HD on 840 for a few years.

(* For you who "No Habla" , check out Rosetta Stone.)

Big 121

 

[SDRadio]

I appreciate everyone chiming in. I used to get WOAI 1200, San Antonio, and KVRN 880, Lexington, 1520 KOMA (now KOKC) no problems and even WWL 870 from New Orleans.

The continued hash on the AM only serves the stockholders of the IBOC company. Face it, Roger Hedgecock and Chip Franklin on HDRadio on KOGO ... are still the same on the analog side.

Right?

 

[RadeoEngineer]

I appreciate everyone chiming in. I used to get WOAI 1200, San Antonio, and KVRN 880, Lexington, 1520 KOMA (now KOKC) no problems and even WWL 870 from New Orleans.

The continued hash on the AM only serves the stockholders of the IBOC company. Face it, Roger Hedgecock and Chip Franklin on HDRadio on KOGO ... are still the same on the analog side.

Right?

In those cases, I'd be happy to have the interference.

 

[Garrett]

I appreciate everyone chiming in. I used to get WOAI 1200, San Antonio, and KVRN 880, Lexington, 1520 KOMA (now KOKC) no problems and even WWL 870 from New Orleans.

The continued hash on the AM only serves the stockholders of the IBOC company. Face it, Roger Hedgecock and Chip Franklin on HDRadio on KOGO ... are still the same on the analog side.

Right?

RIGHT!
FM is clear enough already. Why do we need IBOC in a world where we still have AM? If they want those talk hosts to be in clear reception, just move them to FM.

IBOC, I really don't get it. It doesn't work, and nobdy uses it.

 

[johndavis]

If the radio doesn't deliver what they're looking for, they'll try to get it somewhere else.

Our job remains the same: entertain and inform, no matter how we get it to the audience.

Agreed on both points. But if we only deliver product via AM and FM, and the audience wants it via a different and preferred device, we are SOL.

And we agree on that point, too. We can either take what we know about keeping an audience and apply it to new media, or wave our buggy whips at the cars whizzing by.