All very interesting and at this point only opinons. Time will tell. That said; as far as the Daily Show is concerned, it is widely viewed by college students and people in their 20's. There are those such as myself who are in their 50's and watch but the majority of the audience are in their 20's. As to HD radio, small chips making portible HD a possibility are going to appear soon and that should give this technology a boost. yes, I see I-Pods when I'm out in the streets to and from my car each day. HD radio is brand new and we'll see what happens in a the next few years. Any possible response to this comment would be a guess or an opinion. At this point HD radio has won the day. What happens over the next five years is yet to be written. As the old adage goes, don't count your chickens.
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majicjim said:You done hit the nail on the head my freind!
Video DIDN'T kill the radio star as once thought..The corporate morons did...as they also cut their own throats as well.
Radio is no longer fun.
...bye bye Miss American Pie
(you know the rest of that song...thank you Mr. McLean)
Another 'Happy Camper' of the IBOC HD generation.... So goes the festivities... Soon we'll have an HD Madi Gras to support HD radio...
Radiopilot
radiopilot said:majicjim said:You done hit the nail on the head my freind!
Video DIDN'T kill the radio star as once thought..The corporate morons did...as they also cut their own throats as well.
Radio is no longer fun.
...bye bye Miss American Pie
(you know the rest of that song...thank you Mr. McLean)
Another 'Happy Camper' of the IBOC HD generation.... So goes the festivities... Soon we'll have an HD Madi Gras to support HD radio...
Radiopilot
Laissez les bon temps rouler!!
If everything goes DIGITAL IBOC @ night thats gonna be reather hard mate dont ya think??R.F. Burns said:Where did you read that everyone is FORCED to adopt IBOC. Where does this nonesense come from? You want to stay analog on AM go righ ahead.
You wont hear anything but crap along the stations your trying to hear...
I think Analog sounds BETTER than digital in alot of cases......
R
Radio-X
Guest
I'm not gonna get into the bigtime argument here, but I will say...
Why the investment on something that has been received so cooly by the American public that most still don't know about it? Not to mention the cost! I want an HD radio, but I'm not going to pay $200 for a mediocre one.
Radio-X
Why the investment on something that has been received so cooly by the American public that most still don't know about it? Not to mention the cost! I want an HD radio, but I'm not going to pay $200 for a mediocre one.
Radio-X
You know, I've always felt the arguments about IBOC, pro or con on this board, ring with the same overtones as any social politically correct issue. In that, even though we can plainly see what is going on around us, we must never proclaim publicly where the real problem lies for fear of offending the perpetrator. Therefore, we skirt, obfuscate and use epithets to discredit those who dare to confront the issues head on.
Not much difference here. Some of the anti-IBOC posters here seem to me to be genuine lovers of radio. You know, geeks, that spend time listening to radio because they love radio. Dedicated listeners to a medium that has been showing signs of apathy from more and more of the public; an audience that is shrinking rapidly. The very people who should not be disenfranchised have been tossed aside for the hope that someday, somehow, with the promise of this new technology, a new audience will emerge to listen to the same programming that has driven them away in the first place. But wait: there are stations between the stations! Yes! That will attract more listeners.....with formats that these corporations won't put on their main channels because they are not commercially viable. Not to mention we are being promised more choices on the dial when in reality we will end up with less. Those choosing to listen outside of their market when local content is dreadful or folks out in the boonies that must listen to out-of-town signals if they want to hear a radio broadcast are just plain ****-out-of-luck.....Simply because your listening does nothing for my bottom line. Because, as the FCC made perfectly clear today, big business dictates policy not our whims.
So how have these concerns and fears been treated by the pro-IBOC crowd on this board? As lovers of radio themselves one would assume a civil discussion of the issues would suffice.....but instead the attacks commenced. Picking posters apart about grammar, over use of punctuation, or other petty assaults that skirt the meat of the argument were employed regularly. Those who dared to speak about the downside of this exercise in futility were smeared and called names. In other words: Even though some could plainly see the drawbacks, speaking about them publicly meant scorn and ridicule from the P. C. crowd. When you don't have a good argument or you can't refute the facts resort to name-calling.....that'll shut 'em up!
But hey, the pro-IBOC clan has chalked up a victory. The dillusional pseudo-business model for saving the broadcast bands has overcome common sense. But what else would you expect? Somehow, the notion that first destroying the AM band will lend itself to a financially succesful rebirth could only be considered a good idea to those far removed from reality......those that only see money as a motivating force.
So R F Burns, I'm sure I will now be the target of one of your smarmy, smug retorts. As far as I'm concerned, you are the poster child for the big brother thought police of HD radio. We are grateful that you are out there to guide us on not only how we should do our radio listening, but which stations you feel we must listen to.
I'm sure I speak for many on this board..........................
Not much difference here. Some of the anti-IBOC posters here seem to me to be genuine lovers of radio. You know, geeks, that spend time listening to radio because they love radio. Dedicated listeners to a medium that has been showing signs of apathy from more and more of the public; an audience that is shrinking rapidly. The very people who should not be disenfranchised have been tossed aside for the hope that someday, somehow, with the promise of this new technology, a new audience will emerge to listen to the same programming that has driven them away in the first place. But wait: there are stations between the stations! Yes! That will attract more listeners.....with formats that these corporations won't put on their main channels because they are not commercially viable. Not to mention we are being promised more choices on the dial when in reality we will end up with less. Those choosing to listen outside of their market when local content is dreadful or folks out in the boonies that must listen to out-of-town signals if they want to hear a radio broadcast are just plain ****-out-of-luck.....Simply because your listening does nothing for my bottom line. Because, as the FCC made perfectly clear today, big business dictates policy not our whims.
So how have these concerns and fears been treated by the pro-IBOC crowd on this board? As lovers of radio themselves one would assume a civil discussion of the issues would suffice.....but instead the attacks commenced. Picking posters apart about grammar, over use of punctuation, or other petty assaults that skirt the meat of the argument were employed regularly. Those who dared to speak about the downside of this exercise in futility were smeared and called names. In other words: Even though some could plainly see the drawbacks, speaking about them publicly meant scorn and ridicule from the P. C. crowd. When you don't have a good argument or you can't refute the facts resort to name-calling.....that'll shut 'em up!
But hey, the pro-IBOC clan has chalked up a victory. The dillusional pseudo-business model for saving the broadcast bands has overcome common sense. But what else would you expect? Somehow, the notion that first destroying the AM band will lend itself to a financially succesful rebirth could only be considered a good idea to those far removed from reality......those that only see money as a motivating force.
So R F Burns, I'm sure I will now be the target of one of your smarmy, smug retorts. As far as I'm concerned, you are the poster child for the big brother thought police of HD radio. We are grateful that you are out there to guide us on not only how we should do our radio listening, but which stations you feel we must listen to.
I'm sure I speak for many on this board..........................
radiodxrichmond asked:
Because it's all about the money. It's all about big business and not about the public. While I am very saddened by the FCC's decision yesterday I am not entirely surprised about it. The two most important market driving forces here that contributed to the FCC's decision yesterday are:
1. Payback to the speculative investors who have put an incredibly large amount of money into a company that has developed an ill-conceived and less-than-efficient technology and makes claims about that technology which are untrue,
2. Payback for the large amount of capital the large broadcast equipment manufacturers have invested in building this technology and selling it to radio stations, and,
2. Payback for the amount of capital that radio stations, most prevalently in the larger markets, have invested in purchasing this technology and putting it on the air.
The FCC now makes new rules based on what is good for business, not the public. It is no longer about protecting RF spectrum in the public interest but rather about seeing how much profit these companies can turn. When that becomes more important than the public trust, it is time for the voters in this country to think about how they can force public federal agencies that have been led down the path of "what is good for big business is good for you" in the battle of the public vs. big money to return their missions to the purposes that are stated in their original charters.
And jim8230 conceded:
Did you not know that it is the inherent right of anyone who is employed in large market radio engineering to determine what is the proper way for you to listen to radio and which stations are approved for listening? This, of course, is predicated on engineering facts which, upon being demonstrated for a particular scenario means that any other facts which can not be demonstrated for that same scenario can not possibly exist elsewhere. The principle is, if a tree falls in the deep woods and there is nobody around to hear it, then it cannot possibly have made a sound.
Also, there is a widely held principle of broadcasting sociology that the lower the market number, the higher in the pecking order you go, so an individual who is gainfully employed in say, the #2 broadcast market has superior knowledge and therefore more authority over an individual who is employed in say, the #3 broadcast market. This pecking order is a basic sociological law which establishes the entire field of broadcasting physics. You should learn it!
Why the investment on something that has been received so cooly by the American public that most still don't know about it?
Because it's all about the money. It's all about big business and not about the public. While I am very saddened by the FCC's decision yesterday I am not entirely surprised about it. The two most important market driving forces here that contributed to the FCC's decision yesterday are:
1. Payback to the speculative investors who have put an incredibly large amount of money into a company that has developed an ill-conceived and less-than-efficient technology and makes claims about that technology which are untrue,
2. Payback for the large amount of capital the large broadcast equipment manufacturers have invested in building this technology and selling it to radio stations, and,
2. Payback for the amount of capital that radio stations, most prevalently in the larger markets, have invested in purchasing this technology and putting it on the air.
The FCC now makes new rules based on what is good for business, not the public. It is no longer about protecting RF spectrum in the public interest but rather about seeing how much profit these companies can turn. When that becomes more important than the public trust, it is time for the voters in this country to think about how they can force public federal agencies that have been led down the path of "what is good for big business is good for you" in the battle of the public vs. big money to return their missions to the purposes that are stated in their original charters.
And jim8230 conceded:
I'm sure I will now be the target of one of your smarmy, smug retorts. As far as I'm concerned, you are the poster child for the big brother thought police of HD radio. We are grateful that you are out there to guide us on not only how we should do our radio listening, but which stations you feel we must listen to.
Did you not know that it is the inherent right of anyone who is employed in large market radio engineering to determine what is the proper way for you to listen to radio and which stations are approved for listening? This, of course, is predicated on engineering facts which, upon being demonstrated for a particular scenario means that any other facts which can not be demonstrated for that same scenario can not possibly exist elsewhere. The principle is, if a tree falls in the deep woods and there is nobody around to hear it, then it cannot possibly have made a sound.
Also, there is a widely held principle of broadcasting sociology that the lower the market number, the higher in the pecking order you go, so an individual who is gainfully employed in say, the #2 broadcast market has superior knowledge and therefore more authority over an individual who is employed in say, the #3 broadcast market. This pecking order is a basic sociological law which establishes the entire field of broadcasting physics. You should learn it!
jim 8230 said:You know, I've always felt the arguments about IBOC, pro or con on this board, ring with the same overtones as any social politically correct issue. In that, even though we can plainly see what is going on around us, we must never proclaim publicly where the real problem lies for fear of offending the perpetrator. Therefore, we skirt, obfuscate and use epithets to discredit those who dare to confront the issues head on.
Not much difference here. Some of the anti-IBOC posters here seem to me to be genuine lovers of radio. You know, geeks, that spend time listening to radio because they love radio. Dedicated listeners to a medium that has been showing signs of apathy from more and more of the public; an audience that is shrinking rapidly. The very people who should not be disenfranchised have been tossed aside for the hope that someday, somehow, with the promise of this new technology, a new audience will emerge to listen to the same programming that has driven them away in the first place. But wait: there are stations between the stations! Yes! That will attract more listeners.....with formats that these corporations won't put on their main channels because they are not commercially viable. Not to mention we are being promised more choices on the dial when in reality we will end up with less. Those choosing to listen outside of their market when local content is dreadful or folks out in the boonies that must listen to out-of-town signals if they want to hear a radio broadcast are just plain ****-out-of-luck.....Simply because your listening does nothing for my bottom line. Because, as the FCC made perfectly clear today, big business dictates policy not our whims.
So how have these concerns and fears been treated by the pro-IBOC crowd on this board? As lovers of radio themselves one would assume a civil discussion of the issues would suffice.....but instead the attacks commenced. Picking posters apart about grammar, over use of punctuation, or other petty assaults that skirt the meat of the argument were employed regularly. Those who dared to speak about the downside of this exercise in futility were smeared and called names. In other words: Even though some could plainly see the drawbacks, speaking about them publicly meant scorn and ridicule from the P. C. crowd. When you don't have a good argument or you can't refute the facts resort to name-calling.....that'll shut 'em up!
But hey, the pro-IBOC clan has chalked up a victory. The dillusional pseudo-business model for saving the broadcast bands has overcome common sense. But what else would you expect? Somehow, the notion that first destroying the AM band will lend itself to a financially succesful rebirth could only be considered a good idea to those far removed from reality......those that only see money as a motivating force.
So R F Burns, I'm sure I will now be the target of one of your smarmy, smug retorts. As far as I'm concerned, you are the poster child for the big brother thought police of HD radio. We are grateful that you are out there to guide us on not only how we should do our radio listening, but which stations you feel we must listen to.
I'm sure I speak for many on this board..........................
Seems I hit a nerve. Well enjoy your rant. As for large broadcasters determining what is good for everyone, I never made any such implication. I only demonstrated my own experiences with IBOC. I don't live in a rural area. I live in a suburb and what I recorded I believe, proved my point. All I read from those who oppose my point of view are accusations and insults. The name calling didn't start with me. I responded in kind to the tone brought to this board by those who, for whatever reason, don't like the fact that Ibiquitie's digital system is the defacto winner with their IBOC system. Like it or not, those in charge of governing the broadcast bands (and other RF spectrum) have decided in favor of Ibiquity. No insults hurled or threats made, just facts stated. To repeat; as I have so many times before, You have a valid suit to bring against Ibiquity or a radio station, or the FCC, have at it. Prove your point in a court of law. It will be interesting to see just how many of these filings take place within the next month or so. Good luck.
R.F. Burns mused:
Since it will probably be at least 30 days before the rule making goes into effect, I postulate that it will take a bit longer than a month for these filings to take place.
But interesting it will be, for sure!
It will be interesting to see just how many of these filings take place within the next month or so.
Since it will probably be at least 30 days before the rule making goes into effect, I postulate that it will take a bit longer than a month for these filings to take place.
But interesting it will be, for sure!
StevenNOLA said:radiopilot said:majicjim said:You done hit the nail on the head my freind!
Video DIDN'T kill the radio star as once thought..The corporate morons did...as they also cut their own throats as well.
Radio is no longer fun.
...bye bye Miss American Pie
(you know the rest of that song...thank you Mr. McLean)
Another 'Happy Camper' of the IBOC HD generation.... So goes the festivities... Soon we'll have an HD Madi Gras to support HD radio...
Radiopilot
Laissez les bon temps rouler!!
Roulement au bastian de l'échec... Hoohray
Radiopilot
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
R.F. Burns said:Where did you read that everyone is FORCED to adopt IBOC. Where does this nonesense come from? You want to stay analog on AM go righ ahead. IBOC hasn't been mandated as law for every AM & FM facility. It has however been declared the defacto standard for digital broadcasting in the United States.
Isn't the overall plan to end analog broadcasting eventually, and make radio transmission all digital, just like they are doing with TV?
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
radiodxrichmond said:Why the investment on something that has been received so cooly by the American public that most still don't know about it? Not to mention the cost! I want an HD radio, but I'm not going to pay $200 for a mediocre one.
Exactly - the pro IBOC folks are sounding EXACTLY like the Creationist nuts, who say "buy our literature, it will explain everything". No thanks - I'm not going to pay for their literature hawking their view of Genesis, it just lines their pockets. Similarly, the pro IBOC folks say "buy a $200 radio and listen for yourself". No thanks, I've heard AM IBOC, it sounds like medium or low bandwidth streaming, it gives me a headache, I'm not paying $200 to line Ibiquity's pocket.
Creationist nuts feed me a line of Bull___, IBOC proponents feed me a line of Bull___. No difference between the two in my way of thinking. Both groups are selling snake oil.
rbrucecarter5 said:R.F. Burns said:Where did you read that everyone is FORCED to adopt IBOC. Where does this nonesense come from? You want to stay analog on AM go righ ahead. IBOC hasn't been mandated as law for every AM & FM facility. It has however been declared the defacto standard for digital broadcasting in the United States.
Isn't the overall plan to end analog broadcasting eventually, and make radio transmission all digital, just like they are doing with TV?
The answer to this question is NO. Someday if this technolohgy succeeds, analog might go away but it won't occur for many years at best. Hope this calms your fears. NO ONE has to convert to IBOC and your protected contour still must be protected from interference. If however you run a 250 watt station on 1590 and have been selling that .001 Mv signal to retailers 30 miles away and outside of your protected contour with the promise that your signal can be heard at that location, nothing is guaranteed. If an IBOC station pops up on your first adjacent and that area 30 miles away is within his (or her) protected contour, or in no mans land, then you are out of luck. The only protection you receive is within the geographical area which affords you interference free reception, from other neighboring radio stations. There's a daytimer in my area on 1500 Khz which shares a frequency with WTOP which operates on the same frequency. In the winter, as the sun starts its decent you can hear WTOP mixing with this local station. Is WTOP a 50 KW station breaking the law here or is WTOP the primary licensee for the frequency and these smaller stations operate with full knowledge that they are for intense and purposes secondary users on the frequency?
It's over. Time to toss the Hammarlund HQ180A, the Collins R-390 and even the Sony in the dumpster. Looks like I'll be in the market for a good table saw, top chop, drill press and some hand tools. At least with woodworking, some empty suits aren't going to destroy my hobby, or day job...
Hey, it was fun while it lasted.....
Best to all..........
Hey, it was fun while it lasted.....
Best to all..........
Douglas B. said:It's over. Time to toss the Hammarlund HQ180A, the Collins R-390 and even the Sony in the dumpster. Looks like I'll be in the market for a good table saw, top chop, drill press and some hand tools. At least with woodworking, some empty suits aren't going to destroy my hobby, or day job...
Hey, it was fun while it lasted.....
Best to all..........
So you are a DXer and you only DX the medium wave BCB? How about LW or the tropical bands. There's all sorts of DX out there and you are really limiting yourself if you limit yourself to that small amount of spectrum.
G
Groove1670
Guest
It is time for the big boys to power down. The 50kw stations were useful before the days of internet and cable, but now it is a waste. Throw out the dinosaur rules... let small daytime stations power up at night at least to serve their COL. 100W at night would sure be a blessing to the AM station in my town. The noise is so bad anyway you can really listen to WSB or WLAC OR WSM for long periods of time. They started with reducing power for WOWO.. lets continue. Note to the corporate guys: if you lobby for this to happen, you'll cut costs on the power bill 8)
A
awj223
Guest
musiconradio.com said:It is time for the big boys to power down. The 50kw stations were useful before the days of internet and cable, but now it is a waste. Throw out the dinosaur rules... let small daytime stations power up at night at least to serve their COL. 100W at night would sure be a blessing to the AM station in my town. The noise is so bad anyway you can really listen to WSB or WLAC OR WSM for long periods of time. They started with reducing power for WOWO.. lets continue. Note to the corporate guys: if you lobby for this to happen, you'll cut costs on the power bill 8)
I disagree. Until the day I can get streaming internet radio in my car without hauling along a laptop, 3G cellular device, and audio cables, being able to hear out of town broadcasts serves its purpose.
Also, the big boys are not going to do this because they'd have to reduce power. Not only does power give them skywave coverage, but it also helps keep the signal over what has become a very noisy urban environment (computers, leaky power lines, etc).
I
ILoveQMix
Guest
rbrucecarter5 said:--- my apologies. For being a weak spokesperson for your right to hear skywave radio.
A "right to hear skywave?" Sorry Brother. It's a privilege. Not a right.
ILoveQMix said:rbrucecarter5 said:--- my apologies. For being a weak spokesperson for your right to hear skywave radio.
A "right to hear skywave?" Sorry Brother. It's a privilege. Not a right.
If you were running a business and you had to decide what was important to cover areas where you can sell commercial time to advertisers or areas where your signal returns nothing on your investment, which would you choose? Broadcasting is a business, not a hobby. Sorry to disappoint you.
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