The Day The Music Died

[KeithE4]

In Phoenix, for instance, the first Oldies station calling itself that was probably KOOL-FM in the very late 70's or early 80's.

KOOL-FM became an oldies station absolutely no later than August 1973 (and I think it was 1971 or '72 when that format started). That's when I moved here for college, and it was oldies then.

There were one or two AM's that played some classic RnR but I don't remember them using the term Oldies (KOPA which was KOOL's AM side and another I can't recall at the moment).

KOPA was 1440 and 100.7 for many years. I don't think 960 was ever called KOPA. KOOL 960 had a satellite-delivered oldies format in the '90s that I think it originated, but was not a simulcast of 94.5.

 

[landtuna]

Hispaniola consists of the Dominican Republic and Haiti. No one would refer to a Haitian as Hispanic. Haiti was a French colony and its inhabitants today speak French and a local French-based dialect called Kreyol (Creole). Why would "Latin" be any more accurate? Latin, the language, originated in Italy and became today's Italian.

I'm not a linguist so I will not attempt to defend cultural definitions any further. What I gave you is my definition of having lived in the Southwest USA for the past 70 years or so.

I will say that more than one or two of my "Latino" friends get their dander up if you refer to them as "Hispanic" (although they understand the definition as used by our gubmint).

 

[davideduardo]

Ritchie Valens got his start in L.A. and it already had a substantial Spanish language heritage so I tend to doubt the primary reason was because he was Latino. Rather, it was just easier to shorten it.

The late 50's was when the Spanish language radio stations like KALI and shows on block programmed stations had to send non-"Spanish" sellers to advertisers because of prejudices. This was also the time when school kids would be whacked with a ruler for using Spanish on the school grounds.

I have friends and contemporaries who grew up in LA in those years and who have told me even more dreadful examples which point to why a recording artist would not want a "Spanish sounding" name. For a good idea on what attitudes were, look at how the Chávez Ravine area was cleared of residents to build the baseball stadium...[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[landtuna]

"Latino" includes Brazilians

I've never heard a person from Brazil being called "Latino". We have some close friends from Brazil....I'll have to ask.

 

[landtuna]

Funny, while I was in college in 1973 I interviewed at KOOL-FM and they were pretty definitely playing oldies then.

Wikipedia, with classic inaccuracy, says KOOL-FM was the nation's first "oldies" station having started in 1971. It was actually beaten by 3 to 4 years by others.

As I said, my memory is a bit hazy. I lived in Tucson during the mid-70's and didn't get to Phoenix much. When I finally moved up here in '77 everybody was listening to Bill Heywood on KOY 550.

 

[davideduardo]

I will say that more than one or two of my "Latino" friends get their dander up if you refer to them as "Hispanic" (although they understand the definition as used by our gubmint).

As I said, not everyone likes the term. It was created due to the political necessity of counting a specific group of people as a result of the equal rights and anti-discrimination legislation that went into effect in the 70's.

One of my daughters used to wear a t-shirt that said "I am not Latino. I am not Hispanic. I am Puerto Rican". I've seen many variants of that over the years.[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[davideduardo]

I've never heard a person from Brazil being called "Latino". We have some close friends from Brazil....I'll have to ask.

Gee, that is funny because Lucenzo had a big #1 hit song a couple of years ago which had "Latino" in the title. Lucenzo is Brazilian. Brazil is in Latinoamérica.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/01/brazilians-latino_n_3188606.html

 

[davideduardo]

KOOL-FM became an oldies station absolutely no later than August 1973 (and I think it was 1971 or '72 when that format started). That's when I moved here for college, and it was oldies then.

Where did you go to school (I was at ASU).

KOPA was 1440 and 100.7 for many years. I don't think 960 was ever called KOPA. KOOL 960 had a satellite-delivered oldies format in the '90s that I think it originated, but was not a simulcast of 94.5.

Good catch.

1440 and its FM were K-Dot and Beautiful Music in the early 70's.

KOOL-FM's sister station was KOOL on 960, and the format was traditional MOR. KOY was the big MOR station at the time, and was only a bit more contemporary but it had a great morning show. For 10 points, name it!

 

[landtuna]

The late 50's was when the Spanish language radio stations like KALI and shows on block programmed stations had to send non-"Spanish" sellers to advertisers because of prejudices. This was also the time when school kids woud be whacked with a ruler for using Spanish on the school grounds.

I have friends and contemporaries who grew up in LA in those years and who have told me even more dreadful examples which point to why a recording artist would not want a "Spanish sounding" name. For a good idea on what attitudes were, look at how the Chávez Ravine area was cleared of residents to build the baseball stadium...

I know of the cultural clashes between whites and Latinos going back to the Depression and WWII days (although a lot of those seemed to be Zoot Suit gangs and not the guy on the street). There were lots of political decisions based on the economic and cultural "shortcomings" of certain neighborhoods as L.A. grew.

We tended not to have the same sort of issues in Tucson but that was in large part because the Spanish speaking community tended to stay in South Tucson which was a separate city. Many of the households there were made up of parents and grandparents who spoke only Spanish. I knew their children who were bilingual and used to ask why they didn't learn English. The answers varied but it seemed most of the women could at least understand some English but the men seemed to be too proud to change languages. I remember telling one of my best friends that if they didn't learn English he would never be able to leave the barrio. Years later he told me his parents never did learn English and lived in their home built barrio adobe house until they died. The people who did speak English tended to assimilate into the general community without issues.

 

[landtuna]

One of my daughters used to wear a t-shirt that said "I am not Latino. I am not Hispanic. I am Puerto Rican". I've seen many variants of that over the years.

When I joined the Navy in '62 I apparently had quite a tan because all the guys from Back East thought I was a Puerto Rican too.

 

[landtuna]

For 10 points, name it!

You talking about Bill Heywood and the Hiney Winery?

 

[KeithE4]

Where did you go to school (I was at ASU).

I went to Mesa CC as an Electronics Engineering Technology major. ASU didn't work out financially for me, so I moved to Chicago after graduation in '75 and went to work for a living.

Good catch.

1440 and its FM were K-Dot and Beautiful Music in the early 70's.

IIRC, they became Top 40 KOPA AM/FM starting around 1980. IIRC, the Lumberyard still used those call letters when I moved back here in '94.

KOOL-FM's sister station was KOOL on 960, and the format was traditional MOR. KOY was the big MOR station at the time, and was only a bit more contemporary but it had a great morning show. For 10 points, name it!

Wasn't that back in the '60s and '70s when they were co-owned with Channel 10 under Gene Autry's ownership? The oldies format I was talking about was circa 1994-96, before the station was sold to Salem.

 

[davideduardo]

Wasn't that back in the '60s and '70s when they were co-owned with Channel 10 under Gene Autry's ownership? The oldies format I was talking about was circa 1994-96, before the station was sold to Salem.

My bad. I was, of course, referring to the 70's. I just did not say it. Ouch.

 

[davideduardo]

You talking about Bill Heywood and the Hiney Winery?

Bill Haywood, yes. The Hiney Wine feature was syndicated (out of Dallas, IIRC)

 

[davideduardo]

[I don't know the specifics but would estimate that proceeds from that tour were not nearly as lucrative as current artists get when backed by large corporations.

Holly recorded for Decca / Coral (the Crickets were on subsidiary Brunswick, IIRC) which was one of the biggest "large corporations" in the music business.

Decca also released "Rock Around the Clock".[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[davideduardo]

The Mexican immigrants who lived in the Western states in the 50's would have likely as not immigrated years before and were living here for many years as part of the general community. Example: The Ronstadt family (remember a famous singer named Linda?) had members living on both sides of the border and had first settled in Mexico many years prior before some moved to Tucson and became one of Tucson's First Families. The Earnhardt's of car dealer fame were also another family who moved north but left part of their family in Mexico. There were many families like that.

The Ronstadt's heritage is that of a German immigrant to the border area of Sonora back when the border was quite fluid. He married a Mexican girl, and they eventually moved a bit to the north in the days when that border was basically open and there were no impediments.

Tex Earnhardt was from the Lower Rio Grand Valley of Texas, and his family, also a product of the tens of thousands of German immigrants to Mexico, was similarly a product of that open border era before immigration restrictions and laws went into effect in the 1920's.

 

[TheBigA]

I should forward you the emails I have received the past two days from a number of former high school friends. Without exception they echo my sentiments.

Of course they do. They're your friends. As I said (read my quote), there are lots of people your same age but from other parts of the country that had very different experiences. Understand? For you and your friends, this particular crash may have been the most traumatic thing ever. For lots of other people, it barely mattered. And for people who grew up in the 70s, losing Duane Allman, Ronnie Van Zant, and Tommy Caldwell of Marshall Tucker (in separate crashes) was far more traumatic than something that happened 20 years earlier. And none of those folks were from Muscle Shoals.

I didn't just dream up a connection between a band and a place that I had never been (and still haven't). The connection obviously came from somewhere and that was within the music/radio community.

Fine. Show me one, just ONE reference that proves your point. And BTW I HAVE been to Muscle Shoals and Memphis and Macon.

 

[davideduardo]

When I joined the Navy in '62 I apparently had quite a tan because all the guys from Back East thought I was a Puerto Rican too.

Another stereotype. Not all, not even most, Puerto Ricans are "tan". In fact, the population there is highly variated running from pure African heritage to pure Spanish and European.

 

[semoochie]

Bill Haywood, yes. The Hiney Wine feature was syndicated (out of Dallas, IIRC)

I believe Kent & Alan ran that feature, when they were briefly in Portland, before moving the show to Seattle, where it remains to this day! Just to get back on topic, after careful study,(like I'd really do that)I will have to say that Buddy Holly's career was winding down and was not that big to begin with. There were only a handful of hits BUT he was extremely successful in England so his influence of the Beatles and other British Invasion acts put him in the same category(influence-wise)as Fats Domino, Little Richard, Chuck Berry and Jerry Lee Lewis. His biggest success was in 1957, topping the chart with "That'll Be The Day", then "Peggy Sue/Everyday" #3, "Oh Boy/Not Fade Away" #10 and in 1958, "Maybe Baby #17. The next few songs stalled, then he died and his new record, "It Doesn't Matter Anymore/Raining In My Heart" peaked at #13! That's unbelievable! It actually didn't help the record that he had died! Now, compare this to the UK chart: "That'll Be The Day" #1, "Peggy Sue/Everyday" #6, "Oh Boy/Not Fade Away" #3, "Maybe Baby" #4, "Rave On" #5, "Think It Over" #11 and "Early In The Morning" #17. Then he died but wait; there's more. "It Doesn't Matter Anymore/Raining In My Heart" #1, "True Love Ways"(a year later)#25, "Reminiscing"(three years later) #17 and two more from four years later(Hold onto your hat!), "Bo Diddley" #4 and "Brown-eyed Handsome Man" #3. No wonder he was such an influence in Britain. He'd been dead for four years and was still a current act!

 

[landtuna]

Of course they do. They're your friends.

No, most are my peers. I attended three different high schools in four years so I had very few close "friends" and I can count the number that I am still in touch with on two fingers.

As I said (read my quote), there are lots of people your same age but from other parts of the country that had very different experiences.

That statement is true no matter the subject or time frame. It is identical to saying that the assassination of JFK affected everybody equally. It did not although it was traumatic enough that virtually every person alive then remembers the event.