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The Delta
- Thread starter nuffsaid
- Start date
jboyd said:
I am going to do something dangerous and make an assumption. When you say "Delta" I am going to presume that means in the part of the Delta that is in Mississippi. I'm going to assume my time spent in the Arkansas part of the Delta does not count.
Technically, yes. If I had to make a sworn statement to the FBI, I can say yes with no fear of false testimony.
As a practical matter, no.
I have great respect for you and what you choose to write here. When I see your name attached to a thread or a response, I read.
Your question to me could indicate a feeling on your part that I am not properly experienced and qualified to get into this discussion of the conditions in the Mississippi Delta. And if you feel that way I shall trust your judgment and climb back up into the stands and watch the game play out.
Your question to me could indicate a feeling on your part that it is time that I be brought up to speed on the facts of life about how things are in The Delta. And if you feel that way, bring on the lessons.
Zach and I have conversed before, both in threads and through Personal Messages. Part of what I was doing was conveying some thoughts tailored for Zach.
Being someone who is your age, maybe just a bit older, I am prone to being a "story teller" and if it served any purpose (which it doesn't) I could bore you for a extended period of time with how far back my "connections" with Mississippi go.
You folks have a very good conversation going here. Carry on.
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
Now, I wasn't implying anything about the race or ethnicity of the listeners by referring to the Delta as a third world hell hole. I tried to not let that thought even cross my mind because I've been told time and time again, "it doesn't matter who it is, it only matters if they listen and support the advertisers."
In fact, I've brought up the idea of programming targeted towards the so-called "urban" demographics but have been shot down because those demos, while heavy on radio listening, don't have as much money to buy with. So I'm basing my beliefs off of what I've been told.
But the Delta is inarguably one of the poorest sections of the entire United States; parts of it are right up there with the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota for sheer poverty levels, credit defaults and depressed incomes. I know, I lived on the edge of the Delta for four long miserable years and spent more time there than just about any other part of the state.
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
The money demo: 18-54. Advertisers don't care as much about selling outside that sweet spot. Personally I think the older demos are neglected, after all this is where you have people nearing the end of their careers, with their lives in order and more disposable income to spend. Or the sizable amount of retirees who have a fixed income but money to burn. But that's just me and I'm a radio outsider so take it with a grain of salt. The point is, it doesn't matter what the income level is, that's the age range advertisers seem to covet the most.
Also…
What you have in the Delta is a spread out population and no one center of commerce to concentrate on. There's money in the Delta… one only need ride through the outskirts of Greenville or around Robert E Lee Drive in Greenwood to see the nicer homes… and the Delta as a whole has a decent popultion, but it's so spread out it doesn't do a whole lot of good to advertise a BBQ joint in Carrollton and expect people from Cleveland to go for a visit. And there are plenty of 18-54's in all walks of life, of multiple backgrounds with varying tastes in music. They're just really spread out.
The beauty of radio is it's beyond income levels. Everyone listens, whether they're dirt poor or living behind gates. But the poorer someone is, the less likely they are to spend their money on something they heard on the radio. So it's silly to chase low income listeners, who mostly shop at Dollar General and Wal-Mart, two companies which don't do local buys as far as I know.
My question to you, Mr Cowboy, is, "Is that racist or bigotry in action?" I say no. Part of running a successful ad campaign is getting the most bang for the buck, and advertising directly to those who are least able or willing to buy a product is not efficient. And targeting people in the upper echelon of earnings, in the Delta, is stupid too. There just aren't that many "rich" people (no matter how you define rich.)
So what are we left with? A wide "middle income" group comprised mostly of adults aged 18-54. Spread out over a hundred miles in any direction from the center, it means it's tough to make a living in any one small town. And yes, I consider Greenville, the largest Delta city, a "small town" by national standards. Break down the demographics of some towns, and it becomes an even harder sell. Half black, half white, half male, half female. There aren't a lot of format holes in the Delta now that play to all four subsets.
Finally… if I'm wrong, set me straight. Every thread is a learning experience.
18 to 54 is a population! This is where many stations seem to miss the programming objectives. It is very difficult to program to an 18 -24 year old and maintain at 45 - 54 not to mention males and females. A station that trys to be all things to all people is on the verge of self distruction. Larry Fuss has the right idea now he needs the horses to pull the wagon up the hill.
Those of us who have been "sidelined" from what had been careers in radio can identify with what happened in the history of the Delta. Agriculture was an industry which required the hands on labor of thousands of people. Along came machinery which made it possible for one person to do the work of forty, and all of a sudden folks who didn't make much to begin with were out of work altogether.
Similarly, as Dr. James Cobb, history professor, researcher and author of "The Most Southern Place On Earth: The Mississippi Delta And The Roots Of Regional Identity" notes, "All of the counties of Mississippi where at least 20 percent of the farms are 500 acres or more are in the Delta." So, as in radio, the ownership of most resources is concentrated in few hands.
Libraries of books already exist trying to explain, justify, or apologize for the Delta, so anything I could add would be chaff in the wind.
Similarly, as Dr. James Cobb, history professor, researcher and author of "The Most Southern Place On Earth: The Mississippi Delta And The Roots Of Regional Identity" notes, "All of the counties of Mississippi where at least 20 percent of the farms are 500 acres or more are in the Delta." So, as in radio, the ownership of most resources is concentrated in few hands.
Libraries of books already exist trying to explain, justify, or apologize for the Delta, so anything I could add would be chaff in the wind.
I spent two wonderful weeks in Clarksdale last February taking a documentary workshop. Clarksdale is indeed very poor financially, but exceptionally rich in history, music and arts. Our challenge was to find a story and make a documentary, and there was a story in every person we came across.
Y
yeabutt
Guest
A week in Clarksdale or a month in Greenville does not give you any insight into the Mississippi Delta. I do agree that these communities die not get into the shape they are in now over night and I am sure the demise of agriculltur in the area was a huge blow. There have been a number of companies that have come to Greenville and in a few short years have moved on. Can anybody shed any light on that?
yeabutt said:
That is not a problem that only Mississippi faces. What you are describing is happening all over the South. Somewhere back in the 1960s a lot of manufacturers wanted to escape the high cost of doing business up in the industrial Midwest and Northeast. (We could have a big political discussion of what made their costs high but that does not really add anything to what we are focused on.) Communities for Industrial Development Commissions and gave them the authority to sell Tax Sheltered Municipal Bonds to buy land, build buildings and lease them to companies that would bring production jobs to the community.
The view of people in the North was: Those southerners BRIBED our manufacturers to move South. And there is some truth to that. And when the 20 year property-tax forgiveness ran out, some of the souther plants were no longer that much cheaper to operate.
When I decided it was time to return to the South in the 90s, we searched far and wide for a community where we wanted to live, and a community where I could make a living for a few more years. It was interesting to review Chamber of Commerce materials and observe what kind of "industry" was in each community.
Then 15 or 20 years ago, many of these same companies realized they could move again... this time to Mexico and escape the high cost of doing business in the newly industrialized South. (Think NAFTA while you ponder this.)
And what has happened in the last 10 years? Plants still here bypass the stop-over in Mexico and move production directly to China.
Mexico now has the same problem. One of the economic pressure making the immigrant and illegal immigrant problem we have at the Mexican border is that Mexico is also seeing plants leave and go to China.
It's not that Greenville or any other Mississippi town has done something really stupid and lost their plant. Writer Thomas Friedman wrote a rather provocative (translate that controversial if you like) book called "The World is Flat" or something like that. It is part of a world-wide trend.
The silver lining on the big black cloud is that manufacturers have now figured out that some types of production work well for them in China, but some do not. I read reports of some plants returning from China and setting up shop in the U.S. Not enough to create a national holiday yet. ;D
nuffsaid said:
I thought I was slinging mud by calling it “3 parts third world hell hole” but the lack of anger over that sentiment should tell you what people really think of the area.
I keep saying this over and over, and I'll say it again: the Delta will forever hold a special place in my heart because it's so unique and I've met some interesting people there. But it is not now and will likely never again be a place people want to move to or raise children. It would take an awfully lucrative job offer to get me to go live anywhere in that region again.
I have to keep saying that because a lot of what I say about the Delta is not positive, but it's life as I came to understand it there, my own experience.
Dunno how it is in the radio world, but I worked off and on (mostly off) in some industrial settings and if I can extrapolate the attitude of the area's workforce from the people I dealt with, it is not a good work attitude. My first hire in Grenada, I was asking everyone I met their name. The most common reply? “It ain't important, ain't nothing important you need to know but your job, because you won't be here long.” And that was the truth. None of the jobs seemed to come with any permanency and lots of the people I worked with didn't seem to care or strive for anything better. “It's just the way it is,” some said. That attitude seems to work it's way through life in the Delta, too. There are some pretty awful restaurants but people love 'em because they're cheap and plentiful. The ones that go the extra mile and have really good, fresh cooking (and not turnip greens from a can) are few and far between, and don't do as much business. Or worse, cut corners while charging premium prices because the uneducated ones don't know any better.
It's a world where Wal-Mart is the best place to go to buy anything; not that downtown is completely eradicated, it's just populated with a few insular money-hungry businesspeople who either sell overpriced junk or try to compete with Wal-Mart by selling the same junk at only slightly higher prices. Neither Wal-Mart nor the uneducated businessperson is going to want to advertise on a local station. It's no wonder then that the Delta didn't even get its own NBC TV affiliate until 2010, and it's just a closet operation of WABG, like the Fox subchannel.
It's an uphill battle to try to do better in the Delta, that's for sure. People like Mr Fuss should be admired for their tenacity, for giving the Delta something better than it thinks it needs. There are others in the Delta that work hard to make each town a better place, they just seem few and far between. And the few who know what “the outside world” is like seem to be resigned to weekly trips to Memphis to really do anything out of the ordinary.
Good post Zack! Larry Fuss is a good broadcaster and has some great ideas and hopefully he will be successful in The Delta. I would think he desperately needs street fighters to try and milk what little money there may be on the streets. Not just some of the old line sellers who are out there to make a deal or seel the package of the week. Larry needs some local sellers who understand the area, grew up in the area, or have some kind of ties to the area. He also needs them to be willing to learn how to sell by asking questions and making proposals for clients needs. Larry is a good guy and I hope this time that Good Guys Finish First!
Well, it looks like Larry is trying to sell the place. It's a shame the apathy of the area is like it is. Even with a translator, if the local businesses won't support a station, it's hard to keep going. Sad....
I really love Clarksdale and if I was a rich guy I'd consider living there. Clarksdale has a ton of unique people and stories, but the poverty is staggering. There are some good folks trying to do positive things there, and hopefully that little community will find a way to survive and thrive.
Having owned and operated two stations in the market, I can attest it is a tough place to survive. It goes back to this...You cannot do business where business is not being done...refer to the tax collections and the city government and draw your own conclusions. JBI
( The stations were WJBI, 1974-80 and WKDJ 1987-1992). Thanks JBI
( The stations were WJBI, 1974-80 and WKDJ 1987-1992). Thanks JBI
God bless him for trying. I agree. If there's no money to be had, there's no way to do much even with lots of personal talent in the business and personal resources to try to jump-start it.
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