The difference between WSB and GST

[Clark2]

> And yes, WGST has a very good daytime signal;
> the problem is at night.

If that's true, why doesn't WGST have "very good" daytime numbers, to match that "very good" daytime signal? The problem is at night AND during the day AND during all parts in-between.

>
> The Atlanta radio landscape has changed dramatically since
> 1992. Numerous stations have signed on since then.


Maybe so, but numbers don't tell the whole story. I remember the days (mid 80S, maybe?) when WGST was THE news station in town. I'm not sure what WSB's exact format was then, but it didn't really matter. WGST put out a quality product and they were well-respected. Maybe WSB did "steal away" WGST's best talkers, but that only proves that the key issue wasn't signal...it was programming. To WGST's credit, Neil Boortz and Clark Howard were both home-grown talent. And although Sean Hannity didn't start his radio career in Atlanta, he did come from a much smaller market...proving that SOMEONE at WGST had an eye (or ear) for talent, in those days. And THAT'S the key...finding and nurturing the NEXT Neil Boortz and the NEXT Clark Howard and the NEXT Sean Hannity. I'm not one of those who constantly harps about the evils of consolidation, but I'm afraid it's just about wiped out that kind of thinking.

 

[jjjohnson]

You hit the nail on the head Clark2. By the way, it was Eric Seidel who should get the credit for bringing Sean Hannity to Atlanta.


> > The Atlanta radio landscape has changed dramatically since
>
> > 1992. Numerous stations have signed on since then.
>
>
> Maybe so, but numbers don't tell the whole story. I
> remember the days (mid 80S, maybe?) when WGST was THE news
> station in town. I'm not sure what WSB's exact format was
> then, but it didn't really matter. WGST put out a quality
> product and they were well-respected. Maybe WSB did "steal
> away" WGST's best talkers, but that only proves that the key
> issue wasn't signal...it was programming. To WGST's
> credit, Neil Boortz and Clark Howard were both home-grown
> talent. And although Sean Hannity didn't start his radio
> career in Atlanta, he did come from a much smaller
> market...proving that SOMEONE at WGST had an eye (or ear)
> for talent, in those days. And THAT'S the key...finding
> and nurturing the NEXT Neil Boortz and the NEXT Clark Howard
> and the NEXT Sean Hannity. I'm not one of those who
> constantly harps about the evils of consolidation, but I'm
> afraid it's just about wiped out that kind of thinking.
>

 

[RoddyFreeman]

> > And yes, WGST has a very good daytime signal;
> > the problem is at night.
>
> If that's true, why doesn't WGST have "very good" daytime
> numbers, to match that "very good" daytime signal? The
> problem is at night AND during the day AND during all parts
> in-between.
>
The reason no daytime AM stations in major markets have good numbers is because people tend to leave their radios on the station they were listening to the night before. This is most pronounced in the winter where daytime stations miss a lot of their drivetime. Of course if something really compelling was on during the daytime, people might seek it out. But in market after market, I can't find any daytime station at all with decent ratings. And to most of Atlanta, WGST is a daytime station. If you can find an exception, please let me know. Of course, maybe every daytime station has poor programming.

> Maybe so, but numbers don't tell the whole story. I
> remember the days (mid 80S, maybe?) when WGST was THE news
> station in town. I'm not sure what WSB's exact format was
> then, but it didn't really matter. WGST put out a quality
> product and they were well-respected. Maybe WSB did "steal
> away" WGST's best talkers, but that only proves that the key
> issue wasn't signal...it was programming.

It's true that Eric Seidel was a genius at spotting talent. One thing he got wrong though was the success of Clark Howard. According to someone I know who was working there at the time, when Clark left, WGST management said, "Nobody is going to listen to him on a daily basis."

 

[Clark2]

> The reason no daytime AM stations in major markets have good
> numbers is because people tend to leave their radios on the
> station they were listening to the night before.

That's the BIGGEST bunch of crap I've heard in a long time. You're telling me that it's SO difficult and SO cumbersome to push the button in your car, that the average listener just can't muster up the energy to do it? That once I get in the car, I'm stuck listening to whatever station was on because I'm just NOT going to bother to change it? I would ask where you picked up this nugget of wisdom, but I've been in the business long enough to know when I hear someone parroting back some crap they heard from a Consultant.


> >And to most of Atlanta, WGST is a daytime station.


To most of Atlanta, WGST is a no-time station. That's not meant to be a personal attack on anyone at that station, but it's an obvious fact to most of us. A poor signal is the LEAST of their problems. Good programming will overcome that.

>
> It's true that Eric Seidel was a genius at spotting talent.
> One thing he got wrong though was the success of Clark
> Howard. According to someone I know who was working there
> at the time, when Clark left, WGST management said, "Nobody
> is going to listen to him on a daily basis."
>

Don't know if he ever said that, or not. Don't care if he ever said that or not. The fact remains that here are three nationally-recognized talk show hosts, who all came out of the same Atlanta station. It's been done before...it could be done again.


BTW, Roddy, I'm honestly disappointed in you for that bit about people not changing stations. That's the king of all cop-outs. You know better.

 

[MikeRose]

But you have give Eric Seidel credit for putting Clark on a daily basis. I believe Eric said something like no one would want to listen to Clark for three hours a days. Clark was on WGST for an hour per day. At the the time it was GST's highest rated hour.

WSB had done the research to show Clark would would do well.

But the bottom line is that WSB had the money to lure GST's talent away in the days that days that WGST's parent company Jacor was struggling.

> > > And yes, WGST has a very good daytime signal;
> > > the problem is at night.
> >
> > If that's true, why doesn't WGST have "very good" daytime
> > numbers, to match that "very good" daytime signal? The
> > problem is at night AND during the day AND during all
> parts
> > in-between.
> >
> The reason no daytime AM stations in major markets have good
> numbers is because people tend to leave their radios on the
> station they were listening to the night before. This is
> most pronounced in the winter where daytime stations miss a
> lot of their drivetime. Of course if something really
> compelling was on during the daytime, people might seek it
> out. But in market after market, I can't find any daytime
> station at all with decent ratings. And to most of Atlanta,
> WGST is a daytime station. If you can find an exception,
> please let me know. Of course, maybe every daytime station
> has poor programming.
>
> > Maybe so, but numbers don't tell the whole story. I
> > remember the days (mid 80S, maybe?) when WGST was THE news
>
> > station in town. I'm not sure what WSB's exact format
> was
> > then, but it didn't really matter. WGST put out a
> quality
> > product and they were well-respected. Maybe WSB did
> "steal
> > away" WGST's best talkers, but that only proves that the
> key
> > issue wasn't signal...it was programming.
>
> It's true that Eric Seidel was a genius at spotting talent.
> One thing he got wrong though was the success of Clark
> Howard. According to someone I know who was working there
> at the time, when Clark left, WGST management said, "Nobody
> is going to listen to him on a daily basis."
>

 

[al_atl]

Re: I'm listening to 920 more and more

Amen on the audio quality! WGST sounds like listening to the radio over the telephone. Sounds like WGST has some very old, outdated, poorly maintained equipment. Switch between 640 and 750 during the day when both signals are strong, it is like switching from AM to FM. I've started to listen to Rush on 550 in Gainesville. The signal has some noise and static, but the audio is still much better than WGST. Plus, I've found that WDUN is a better station than WGST...WDUN is pretty good! WGST sounds like, as someone once described bad audio, flattulance through an old Victorola horn. I called them about it a few times a year or two ago when the audio quality first got really bad. They claimed there was no problem, that it sounded fine to them. If Clear Channel is really as cheap as everyone says, they probably fired the engineers and buy their equipment from Radio Shack. Nothing against Radio Shack...but broadcast quality, they ain't! I've heard some bad sounding AM radio stations...mostly small stations in small markets. But I've never heard what is supposedly one of the better stations in a market as large as Atlanta with a technical sound that is so bad. I find them unlistenable.


> > WGKA has not showed up in a full ratings books for almost
> a
> > year. WGST hovers around #.# to #.#. GST is not close to
>
> > its glory days but WGKA is not really that much of threat.
>
> >
>
> Actually WGKA showed up in a couple of ratings books earlier
> this year with either #.# or #.# shares. Then again, it's
> quite easy to overlook this since it has been rare for them
> to show up at all.
>
> As far as WGST, they will NEVER, NEVER compete, unless they
> get some competent people running that outfit over there
> (instead of Cheap Channel) and upgrade their porous audio
> quality and their 1-285 nighttime signal.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Consolidated Corporate Radio S U C K S !!!!!!</P>

 

[JR2005AB]

Re: I'm listening to 920 more and more

Yes, like you, when I tune into Rush, I prefer 550 WDUN vice WGST, especially since I live up here in Gwinnett County, where 550 comes in quite well. Maybe
WGST would be much better off being a daytime-only station and sign off at night so we can get KFI 640 late at night like you could back in the good ol'
days until GST went to 640 in the late 80's.




> Amen on the audio quality! WGST sounds like listening to
> the radio over the telephone. Sounds like WGST has some
> very old, outdated, poorly maintained equipment. Switch
> between 640 and 750 during the day when both signals are
> strong, it is like switching from AM to FM. I've started to
> listen to Rush on 550 in Gainesville. The signal has some
> noise and static, but the audio is still much better than
> WGST. Plus, I've found that WDUN is a better station than
> WGST...WDUN is pretty good! WGST sounds like, as someone
> once described bad audio, flattulance through an old
> Victorola horn. I called them about it a few times a year
> or two ago when the audio quality first got really bad.
> They claimed there was no problem, that it sounded fine to
> them. If Clear Channel is really as cheap as everyone says,
> they probably fired the engineers and buy their equipment
> from Radio Shack. Nothing against Radio Shack...but
> broadcast quality, they ain't! I've heard some bad sounding
> AM radio stations...mostly small stations in small markets.
> But I've never heard what is supposedly one of the better
> stations in a market as large as Atlanta with a technical
> sound that is so bad. I find them unlistenable.
>
>

 

[radionut987]

Re: I'm listening to 920 more and more

Same here. I listen to WDUN on the internet occasionally, and while the station may be in a much smaller market, the management is a lot more professional than Clear Channel, has a true, 24-hour news department, and actually carries high school sports, as well as even minor league hockey (Gwinnett Gladiators) to boot. Oh, and WDUN has basically been under the same management since signing on in 1949. WDUN is a true example of radio the way it should be.


> Yes, like you, when I tune into Rush, I prefer 550 WDUN vice
> WGST, especially since I live up here in Gwinnett County,
> where 550 comes in quite well. Maybe
> WGST would be much better off being a daytime-only station
> and sign off at night so we can get KFI 640 late at night
> like you could back in the good ol'
> days until GST went to 640 in the late 80's.
>
>
>
>
> > Amen on the audio quality! WGST sounds like listening to
> > the radio over the telephone. Sounds like WGST has some
> > very old, outdated, poorly maintained equipment. Switch
> > between 640 and 750 during the day when both signals are
> > strong, it is like switching from AM to FM. I've started
> to
> > listen to Rush on 550 in Gainesville. The signal has some
>
> > noise and static, but the audio is still much better than
> > WGST. Plus, I've found that WDUN is a better station than
>
> > WGST...WDUN is pretty good! WGST sounds like, as someone
> > once described bad audio, flattulance through an old
> > Victorola horn. I called them about it a few times a year
>
> > or two ago when the audio quality first got really bad.
> > They claimed there was no problem, that it sounded fine to
>
> > them. If Clear Channel is really as cheap as everyone
> says,
> > they probably fired the engineers and buy their equipment
> > from Radio Shack. Nothing against Radio Shack...but
> > broadcast quality, they ain't! I've heard some bad
> sounding
> > AM radio stations...mostly small stations in small
> markets.
> > But I've never heard what is supposedly one of the better
> > stations in a market as large as Atlanta with a technical
> > sound that is so bad. I find them unlistenable.
> >
> >
>

 

[artsutton]

Re: Why doesn't CCU try for a power increase?

> > The dominant Class A station on 640 is KFI, Los Angeles.
> >
> > CCU OWNS KFI.
> >
> > Nothing to stop them from taking KFI directional with a
> null
> > toward Atlanta.
> > Sure they'd lose a little coverage in the desert at night.
>
> > So what if Phoenix can't hear them any more? Phoenix has
> its
> > own CC talker with all the same shows.
> >
> > CCU then has enough bucks to buy up most or all of the
> > little Class B's licensed by the FCC in the early 80's on
> > 640, in places like Fayetteville NC,
> > Wildwood FL, and Royal Palm Beach, FL. It already owns
> WHLO
> > in Akron.
> >
> > Then put GST on six towers west of Atlanta and send 50 kW
> > blasting toward the metro at night. Problem solved.
> >
> > Or an even simpler solution. Buy 650 in Nashville. Move it
>
> > to Atlanta. Let the Opry fans scream. They have their own
> > channel on Sirius now. Let them get the Opry there.
> >
> > Here's another idea. Buy 550 in Gainesville. Move it BACK
> > (it was originally WCON) to Atlanta. Six towers in Cobb
> > County someplace. 50 kW directional down I-75. CCU owns
> 540
> > in Columbus. Move that to the 640 frequency. Buy out 550
> in
> > Jacksonville fl if necessary. That would also allow CCU's
> > talker in Orlando to open its day pattern just a bit.
> >
> > The question is, if GST were 50 kW fulltime, would their
> > programming be good enough to compete with WSB? Braves and
>
> > CTC versus reruns? Would it help GST garner more audience
> in
> > morning drive?
> >
> I agree. For a Metro this huge--you have to have a 50kw full
> time.
> Atlanta always gets screwed by the podunk towns hundreds of
> miles away.
>
The bigger issue for WGST is their lower power in the mornings til sunrise when they are 1KW directional.

The biggest issue for WGST getting a power increase is they have to protect the Cuban station on 640. Back in the early 1980s, Reagan's FCC told broadcasters to ignore Cuba. Fidel, still getting Russian money on those days, fired up a bunch of big AM transmitters on American clear channels and all kinds of interference occured. The FCC then went back to making American stations protect Cuban stations under the restrictive pre-Castro radio treaty which Fidel ignores but America still follows.

During that interim some smart operators took advantage of the lax attitdue toward Cuba and raised power. WDUN in Gainesville went from 500 watts to 2500 watts at night only because they didn't have to protect Cuba. About the same time, the FCC also brown down the American Clear Channels such as 640. Prior to this no one could operate in the US on 640 except KFI even if they were thousands of miles away. When the FCC relaxed this rule and the Cubans were ignored, it allowed several 640 stations to pop up east of the Mississippi River...far enough away from Los Angeles to protect KFI. Atlanta got one because in those days minority applicants got favored status and an African American applied for 640 and won the channel over several other applications. A 640 went on in Central Florida, one in Fayetteville, NC..another in Memphis, another in the Tri-Cities of NE TN. The rule was also written so that these new AMs didn't have to protect each other, just the dominant KFI for a period of years.

Now, WGST would have to protect not only Cuba and KFI, but all the other 640s which went on the air when they did.

Furthermore, finding enough land to build a big directional array like WCNN has on 680...any where near enough to cover Atlanta at night is not only impossible but so expensive I'm not sure you could ever make it pay financially.

 

[herbied28205]

Since WGST 640 has a horrible inside the beltway signal, then flip it to Progressive Talk and let Rush go elsewhere. Most liberals in the metro are inside of I-285, so it makes sense.

6-9am Local Liberal Talk
9am-12pm Stephanie Miller or Jerry Springer (CC has ownership interest in Springer)
12-3pm Al Franken
3-6pm Ed Schultz or 3-7pm Randi Rhodes
6-10pm Tape Delay of Randi Rhodes or 7-10pm Tape Delay of Ed Schultz
Overnight Fox Sports Radio from 790 The Zone<P ID="signature">______________
I am not an employee of Jefferson-Pilot, Clear Channel, Infinity, Radio One, TimeWarner, Cox, Belo, Bahakel Communications, Capital Broadcasting, or Knight-Ridder</P>

 

[newsmonster]

> > This May be true, but you must admit, the lack of signal
> on
> > 640 is one other thing that kills this station, why would
> > you want to listen to news on a station full of static,
> and
> > a weak signal, when you can hit a strong powerful signal
> > like 750? There are numerous things to count, but signal
> is
> > a strong point.
> >
> If it's the signal that's really hurting WGST, wouldn't it
> be better for them to approach news/talk (if they stick with
> that as a format) in a way that appeals better toward
> listeners inside the perimeter?
>

GST is a station in search of an audience. Going head-to-head with WSB, of course, is pure folly. SB owns all the service elements (news, traffic, weather) and the talk image. It IS the local radio voice of Atlanta. Add 'em up. There are at least six talkers in town right now: WSB, WGST, WGKA, Air Atlanta, two sportstalkers. There's only so much revenue in that pot. Plus, GST is carrying a huge (might we call it) debt service with the Braves. Word is, they paid much more than they can recover. And, 96 Rock wins that battle anyway because of signal. Unlike last time, when GST was an AM/FM simulcast and Peach was the "loser" carrying the Braves at night, 96 Rock's guy-targeted format is a natural.

But, there is a way for GST to attack and, while not winning in the overall numbers game, being extremely competitive in desirable demos. Yes, the early morning drive/nighttime signal still is a handicap. Clear Channel might consider looking at 1690, which is for sale and which has a much better nighttime (read: EARLY MORNING DRIVE) signal than 640, reaching well into Cobb County and North Fulton. Either way, there remains a void in this market that could be filled very neatly and there would only be room for one. And, it is not Progressive Talk.

I'll leave it at that, for now.