The disgraceful Benny Goodman

[vchimpanzee]

I was changing channels in a motel room, since I don't get these channels at home and wanted to see which channel was which. The motel could probably have provided a list. But I found myself on a channel showing "The Waltons", and the sisters who make recipe were upset about this deplorable swing music. They liked Al Jolson.

I do remember the teenagers on that show liking Benny Goodman. Hard to believe!

Even Elvis seems so tame now.

 

[JeffM]

Just proves nothing's ever really new. Every generation feels obligated to proclaim the next's music as worthless dreck. Nobody took a bigger drubbing than Sinatra did; listen to radio comedians' jokes from the 40's, or watch some Warner Bros. cartoons from those years. It was rock 'n' roll in general and Elvis in particular that got clobbered in the 50's; recently read an old Billboard article in which a juke box operator complained about "that Mau-Mau music the kids listen to" (such subversive types as Ricky Nelson and David Seville...) And in the 60's, of course, it was the Beatles' turn. (By the way, you shoulda heard the things they said about the Waltz a couple hundred years ago...)

I refuse to ever become a musical "dad"...you know the type..."Music?! You kids call that $#!+ MUSIC?!! Now THIS HERE's music!!"...then plays a Jim Nabors record. I've already posted in another thread about the "Fargo" refugees and racist poots who haunt the local used-vinyl shop here; no point in beating that dead horse. Do I like all new music? No. Did I like everything 30 years ago? Also no. But at least I enjoy some, and believe that keeping up to date prevents "hardening of the eardrums."

 

[TheBigA]

I'll say this...the first time I heard "Sing, Sing, Sing," I thought it was pretty dirty. Those tribal tom toms, those nasty sounding trumpets in the open, and then the saxes come in. It definitely was a lot more urban than The Waltons. For people raised on Baptist hymns, this was very risqué, and the dances they did to this stuff were also pretty wild. Remember the movie "Footloose?" That took place many years after Benny. Combine Benny with Sinatra, and you were going to a show that way beyond what most white people had ever experienced at the time.

 

[FredLeonard]

Benny Goodman was an extremely talented and skilled musician. From all I've read, he was not a nice person (sort of Sheldon Cooper with a clarinet).
He is responsible (in a way) for first bringing the Tonight Show to California. Originally, the Tonight Show aired live from New York. The idea was that performers in Broadway shows and nightclubs would come on after they did their shows or other gigs in the evening. Then Steve Allen was cast as Benny in "The Benny Goodman Story" and while the movie was in production, the Tonight Show moved to LA to allow him to do the movie and the Tonight Show. It's not a bad bio pic and a good introduction to big band swing (same can be said for Jimmy Stewart in "The Glenn Miller Story").

 

[TheBigA]

Ironically, Benny himself lived in NYC.

 

[landtuna]

Interestingly, last night (The 4th of July) I attended a BBQ where the average age was high-20's, low 30's and would you guess what music was on all night long? Sirius/XM's "40's on 4". Nobody was dancing (it was probably still in the high 90's even after dark) but the music seemed popular.

 

[TheBigA]

Sirius/XM's "40's on 4".

If you watched the Macy's NBC TV special, while the live performances were all current stars, the music that accompanied the fireworks was all big band from something called the DIVA Jazz Orchestra.

 

[Atwater Kent]

When most people talk about degenerate songs, they're talking about lyrics more than anything else. As far as Sinatra, he was joked about because he was regarded as skinny. His music was mainly standards written by people like Irving Berlin. Rogers and Hammerstein, and Jerome Kern. Except for Bessie Smith, the music was not controversial. Lady GaGa and Miley Cyrus are a HELL of a lot worse than Benny Goodman and "Sing, Sing, Sing." The main problem with that song is it runs too long. One instrumental that is a little bit sleazy is the opening clarinet solo in the original recording of "Rhapsody in Blue." But that's still to innocuous to be of any consequence.

 

[FredLeonard]

Big band swing, like early rock n' roll later, was Black music by White musicians for White audiences in an era of Jim Crow and segregation. Black band leader Fletcher Henderson did the arrangement of Sing, Sing Sing for Goodman.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I'll say this...the first time I heard "Sing, Sing, Sing," I thought it was pretty dirty. Those tribal tom toms, those nasty sounding trumpets in the open, and then the saxes come in. It definitely was a lot more urban than The Waltons. For people raised on Baptist hymns, this was very risqué, and the dances they did to this stuff were also pretty wild. Remember the movie "Footloose?" That took place many years after Benny. Combine Benny with Sinatra, and you were going to a show that way beyond what most white people had ever experienced at the time.

WAVO Charlotte does play the long version. That is quite a contrast to the easygoing, innocent music that this station tends to play. I do like it, though.

 

[TheBigA]

Black band leader Fletcher Henderson did the arrangement of Sing, Sing Sing for Goodman.

But then Benny hired Teddy Wilson and Lionel Hampton. Made for interesting stays in southern hotels. Hamp often ended up sneaking in the service entrance. He couldn't walk in the front door.

 

[JeffM]

Big band swing, like early rock n' roll later, was Black music by White musicians for White audiences in an era of Jim Crow and segregation. Black band leader Fletcher Henderson did the arrangement of Sing, Sing Sing for Goodman.

Correct about Mr. Henderson, but Louis (Luigi) Prima wrote the song. What does either fact prove? Do they reinforce one another or cancel each other out? Regardless, "Sing, Sing, Sing" was probably the record that kicked off the swing era. (If I recall correctly, the original release covered both sides of a 78 rpm disc.)

 

[unitron]

When most people talk about degenerate songs, they're talking about lyrics more than anything else. As far as Sinatra, he was joked about because he was regarded as skinny. His music was mainly standards written by people like Irving Berlin. Rogers and Hammerstein, and Jerome Kern. Except for Bessie Smith, the music was not controversial. Lady GaGa and Miley Cyrus are a HELL of a lot worse than Benny Goodman and "Sing, Sing, Sing." The main problem with that song is it runs too long. One instrumental that is a little bit sleazy is the opening clarinet solo in the original recording of "Rhapsody in Blue." But that's still to innocuous to be of any consequence.

Sleazy?

I believe the word you're looking for there is "soulful".

 

[Avid Listener]

Interestingly, last night (The 4th of July) I attended a BBQ where the average age was high-20's, low 30's and would you guess what music was on all night long? Sirius/XM's "40's on 4". Nobody was dancing (it was probably still in the high 90's even after dark) but the music seemed popular.

We had a block party in my neighborhood recently. Ages ranged from teenagers to retirees. My neighborhood has about as diverse a collection of people as you're likely to find anywhere. Let me describe the neighborhood by the ethnic foods people brought. We had kimchi, sushi, halushky, pork BBQ, potato salad, chili, tacos, hamburgers, jambalaya, chitterlings, black beans & rice, gumbo, crawfish, pad thai, and more! I was in charge of background music, so I but together the biggest variety I could from my MP3s. The crowd favorites were Cab Calloway's "Minnie the Moocher", and almost everything I had by by Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, the Cherry Poppin' Daddies, and the Squirrel Nut Zippers.

I think I ended up giving half the people there SD cards with all the songs that they heard for the first time at that party, from almost every genre of music. That's not an uncommon experience for me. The Mexican family from two doors down had never heard "Eres Tu" by Mocedades or "Guantanamera", by the Sandpipers. The young Black family from across the cul-de-sac had never heard Ike Turner's "Rocket 88". Neither the Russian heavy metal fan nor the Japanese Sushi chef had ever heard anything by Japanese metal band Ancient Myth, but they liked the songs by them that I played. I think I turned several different people into Blues Project fans.

It's experiences like that which convince me that it's total BS when the suits claim people only want to hear songs they already know from when they were in high school. I've had too many real life experiences that say otherwise.

 

[TheBigA]

It's experiences like that which convince me that it's total BS when the suits claim people only want to hear songs they already know from when they were in high school. I've had too many real life experiences that say otherwise.

Only? No. Mostly? Probably. What we do is program stations so that people can make the decisions for themselves. They can either pick a station that plays music from their high school days, or pick music from their kids' high school days, or from their parent's high school days. All of that music is usually available along the radio dial. Just look for it, and it'll be there. But attempting to cover 60 or more years of music on one station is too confusing.

 

[FredLeonard]

> Avid Listener: Rules have exceptions. You will occasionally find teen-agers who like big bands and who hate CHR. But they are a typical. And maybe you find the occasional senior citizen who likes RAP. But advertisers don't by a RAP station to reach them. And you won't hear Clearasil ads on a standards station. We are talking about statistics, not individuals.

 

[Avid Listener]

I would add an explanatory disclaimer to my post above. I am not suggesting a return to the goulash style programming of yesteryear where multiple genres of music were all mixed together. I'm not suggesting that Soft-AC-EZ-Listening-Adult-Standards stations should also program polkas. I'm only suggesting that the ultra-tight playlists that the suits inflict on audiences are far tighter than they need to be or than they should be. It never fails that when I suggest increasing a playlist from 300 songs to 400 songs, the negative responses I get from suits all imply that I suggested stretching to 3000 song playlists.

 

[TheBigA]

It never fails that when I suggest increasing a playlist from 300 songs to 400 songs, the negative responses I get from suits all imply that I suggested stretching to 3000 song playlists.

It's all a function of the format, the goals of the specific station, and the competition in the format. There is no general number of songs that works in all formats and markets.

 

[FredLeonard]

Correct about Mr. Henderson, but Louis (Luigi) Prima wrote the song. What does either fact prove? Do they reinforce one another or cancel each other out? Regardless, "Sing, Sing, Sing" was probably the record that kicked off the swing era. (If I recall correctly, the original release covered both sides of a 78 rpm disc.)

Prima was from New Orleans and was heavily influenced by the Black musicians playing in clubs there. Early in his career, he was sometimes mistaken as Black. But what made Sing, Sing, Sing a hit, was the arrangement.

 

[CTListener]

The Mexican family from two doors down had never heard "Eres Tu" by Mocedades or "Guantanamera", by the Sandpipers.

Why would they have? Mocedades were from Spain. The Sandpipers were American and "Guantanamera" is a Cuban song. Spain isn't Mexico. Neither is Cuba. Would that Mexican family expect you, as an American, to know every popular English-language song regardless of nation of origination?