The Edge has a new PD & APD

[davideduardo]

You simply don't know what you're talking about. That may have been the case under the Dickey regime, where everything was top down. It's no longer the case at Cumulus stations. Check the playlists at different stations in the same region programming the same format and you'll find significant differences.

Just for kicks I looked at BDS for a couple of the same-format-different-market Cumulus stations. While the biggest songs are now fairly uniform nationally, each station rotated the library differently.

The rotations of recurrents not only was different, it appears some stations have several recurrent categories and others have just one.

Similarly, the gold rotates as much as twice to three times as often on some as on others, with different markets thus having a slightly different blend, reflecting the fragmentation of formats like alternative in the last two decades.

 

[tbolt909]

You simply don't know what you're talking about. That may have been the case under the Dickey regime, where everything was top down. It's no longer the case at Cumulus stations. Check the playlists at different stations in the same region programming the same format and you'll find significant differences.

As I recall, you didn't even know that The Edge switched from Active Rock to Alternative long ago. Compare the Edge playlist to ALT Buffalo. They are pretty much the same and similar to other markets.

I don't know what Cumulus stations you are referring to. Pick any format anywhere and it will be about the same. You defend your precious 97 Rock as some unique playlist, but the facts prove you wrong. Classic Rock is almost identical nationwide with very minor differences. Alternative was Rock oriented in the 90s and actually featured bands that AOR or Classic Rock stations wouldn't play. The name "Alternative" really means nothing anymore...

 

[Rusty Bridges]

Good PDs, I've read and been told, review logs before pressing F9. They also check Linker to review jingles, sweepers and bumpers. Some companies may have a group PD do multiple logs, backed up by a local PD who reviews them and fine tunes them. The days of set-it-and-forget-it, if ever there were such days, are gone... at least for stations that perform well. Siragusa is a good fit for the Edge. No doubt he'll be very busy.

 

[TheBigA]

Pick any format anywhere and it will be about the same.

Yes they play popular songs. That's what radio does. What's your point? You want them to play unknown local singers?

 

[davideduardo]

As I recall, you didn't even know that The Edge switched from Active Rock to Alternative long ago. Compare the Edge playlist to ALT Buffalo. They are pretty much the same and similar to other markets.

It's always been that way. In any specific format, particularly today with the influence of the WORLD-wide-web, the principal hits are the same not just in any US market but in any part of the world where English language music is popular. It's just that the synchronization is faster today.

I've mentioned it before, but when I owned a Top 40 station in Ecuador in the 60's, I used the WIXY and WQAM lists to guide my selections, and had a one-stop in the US send me all the ads each week. Billboard took four to six weeks to arrive, so I used the airmailed station lists as guidance. I'd eliminate music that was too country, too folk or too novelty, but otherwise we mirrored the average Top 40 in the USA.

My point is that a hit is a hit is a hit. Always has been. So stations that play the hits (and gold is only played if it is still a hit and has not stiffed out over time) are going to be amazingly similar whether in Syracuse or Salinas.

I don't know what Cumulus stations you are referring to. Pick any format anywhere and it will be about the same. You defend your precious 97 Rock as some unique playlist, but the facts prove you wrong. Classic Rock is almost identical nationwide with very minor differences. Alternative was Rock oriented in the 90s and actually featured bands that AOR or Classic Rock stations wouldn't play. The name "Alternative" really means nothing anymore...

Hint: it's always been that way, back to when stations all over the US started copying KOWH and KLIF.

So, of course music stations will play the same songs in the same format. Back before the Internet and BDS we used to subscribe to Gavin and FMQB and R&R and all the rest to see what others in our format were adding and dropping. We did not want to miss a good song and did not want to play a song others were dropping.

Heck, even back in the 30's if one orchestra started playing a song regularly, the other orchestras would pick up on it. People like to hear hits, and it turns out it is pretty easy to figure out which are and which are not. Even in the 50's, national television knew a hit when it heard one, and that was why "Your Hit Parade" with Snooky Lanson and Giselle MacKenzie and the others sang the same few songs on the national network over and over until they dropped off.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't know what Cumulus stations you are referring to. Pick any format anywhere and it will be about the same. You defend your precious 97 Rock as some unique playlist, but the facts prove you wrong. Classic Rock is almost identical nationwide with very minor differences. Alternative was Rock oriented in the 90s and actually featured bands that AOR or Classic Rock stations wouldn't play. The name "Alternative" really means nothing anymore...

Yes, most of the songs will be the same. But each station will have its own set of categories, rotational patterns and the like. Much of this has to do with the competitive array in each market, which slightly influences the way the tested library is balanced and played.

For example, the major market Jack stations will have considerable overlap, but in different markets they may lean more rock or a bit less depending on local factors. But what they play will still be significantly similar in feel.

 

[tbolt909]

The better question might be - Why does a market like Buffalo have 2 Alternative formats? Not much demand for that product in an older Rust Belt area...

 

[davideduardo]

The better question might be - Why does a market like Buffalo have 2 Alternative formats? Not much demand for that product in an older Rust Belt area...

Then one or both will change formats.

For seven decades, radio market format arrays have been self-adjusting based on available audiences and advertiser demands for specific audience groups.

No matter how many stations there are in a market, 50% will be in the bottom half, all wanting to do better.

 

[SirRoxalot]

The better question might be - Why does a market like Buffalo have 2 Alternative formats? Not much demand for that product in an older Rust Belt area...

Here we go again. tbolt wants "The Lake" back...

BTW, thanks for your deep dive into playlists for The Edge and similar stations before you responded to the last post. The citations were enlightening.

 

[davideduardo]

I doubt that any PD is spending more than an hour a day generating a playlist anymore...

I wanted to answer this separately.

An hour for each day's log is about right. Some formats that depend on "feel" based segues may take more, some CHRs that "play the hits" don't.

Where the real work takes place is implementing music tests or even regional / format based group tests or callout (which is generally really on-liine now). Verifying that scores are input, including demos and gender data, deciding what songs get different rotations, coding songs for tempo, texture and other qualities are just some of the work involved. Doing test logs, making further adjustments and tweaks is also part of this. So is determining artist protection and determining if category rotation needs changing.

Once that is done, most log work is filling unscheduled positions and looking for train wrecks... and doing any specials that the station might offer. A well set up scheduling software won't require much daily time for most formats. Think of it as automobile models... there are styling, feature and mechanical changes each year. That means testing, adjusting the production line, and a bunch of other steps. But once that is done, the company whips out cars one after another. That is sort of how setting up MusicMaster or GSelector works too: a good structure and lots of planning and testing, and then the system outputs pretty good logs that need minimal editing every day.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

The better question might be - Why does a market like Buffalo have 2 Alternative formats? Not much demand for that product in an older Rust Belt area...

The market has one and a half Alt formats. 107.7 is essentially insignificant. 103.3 is the go-to. Alt 107.7's lone strong suit of summer promotion, the Kerfuffle outdoor concert, has been neutered by Covid-19. The 107.7 format seems like a place holder on a perpetually challenged frequency whose merits or lack of such have been beaten to death here. That said, don't expect The Lake to make a reappearance. That ship has sailed. Entercom is up to its eyebrows in turmoil and there are far bigger fish to fry. The entire business has been turned upside down according to BIA estimates for this year and next. As to the Edge, Shredd & Ragan are the station. A well-respected market professional says the station loses half of its 25-54 Male shares (#2 in AM drive behind WGR) when S&R walk out of the studio each day at 10.

 

[TheBigA]

The better question might be - Why does a market like Buffalo have 2 Alternative formats? Not much demand for that product in an older Rust Belt area...

It depends on who is asking this question.

 

[tbolt909]

Here we go again. tbolt wants "The Lake" back...

BTW, thanks for your deep dive into playlists for The Edge and similar stations before you responded to the last post. The citations were enlightening.

You live in the market, right? I said nothing about The Lake. You claim that Cumulus is unique in their programming. I don't see any evidence of that. It's not that hard to check playlists. Most stations post them on their websites.

The Alternative format is not doing very well nationwide. Many have given up on it...

 

[davideduardo]

You live in the market, right? I said nothing about The Lake. You claim that Cumulus is unique in their programming. I don't see any evidence of that. It's not that hard to check playlists. Most stations post them on their websites.

The Alternative format is not doing very well nationwide. Many have given up on it...

Name a few that have given it up that are not stations sold to "dedicated format" owners like K-Love's parent company.

Stations in specific formats are changing or morphing all the time. In many cases, it is due to indirect competitors fragmenting the fringes, which is very hard to compete against.

The very simple problem with alternative is that the music is fragmented, with sub-groups who like some music, tolerate some and hate another group... and each group dislikes the songs the other groups love. If you see an alternative music test, very few songs get high scores among every participant... many get as many very low "hate" scores as high "love" scores. That makes it very hard to program as there are not that many "everyone at least tolerates it" songs. And production in the last year or two, as has been mentioned, is not astoundingly good or popular.

Still, the format is a decent part of a cluster for many groups since it helps to give a good male option to clients.

 

[davideduardo]

You live in the market, right? I said nothing about The Lake. You claim that Cumulus is unique in their programming. I don't see any evidence of that. It's not that hard to check playlists. Most stations post them on their websites.
.

Website and easy access playlists don't give you weekly total spins and things like daypart breakouts. What is of most interest is the depth of the library, the spins on currents (if any) and other categories... as well as obvious dayparting (lower ranked songs may not play in AM drive, for example).

And those with paid access to MediaBase or BDS can go back many years an compare playlists on a variety of criteria.

 

[tbolt909]

Website and easy access playlists don't give you weekly total spins and things like daypart breakouts. What is of most interest is the depth of the library, the spins on currents (if any) and other categories... as well as obvious dayparting (lower ranked songs may not play in AM drive, for example).

And those with paid access to MediaBase or BDS can go back many years an compare playlists on a variety of criteria.

Many websites use Tune Genie or other similar services. Many stations allow you to search by day/hour. You can see what was played. If someone wants to do an in depth research project, they can add it all up. That was not the point. Unless stations are listing songs that didn't actually air, the information is right there...

 

[DN14224]

I wanted to answer this separately.

An hour for each day's log is about right. Some formats that depend on "feel" based segues may take more, some CHRs that "play the hits" don't.

30 years ago, maybe...but with a properly-coded library along with accurate rotations and today's technology you can do an entire week in about an hour,.

 

[TheBigA]

That was not the point.

What WAS the point? Why are you dragging this on?

 

[davideduardo]

30 years ago, maybe...but with a properly-coded library along with accurate rotations and today's technology you can do an entire week in about an hour,.

And very badly.

If you don't have strict enough rules, you will not get unscheduled positions. But you will get bad segues, inconsistent sound, horrible hour rotations (vertical and horizontal) and just not an optimized schedule. You get a personal playlist on automatic shuffle, not a format.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

Some formats that depend on "feel" based segues may take more, some CHRs that "play the hits" don't.

And what formats would those be? In Buffalo, there's not one station that relies on cold segues. Sure, 97 Rock and Jack FM may roll one per hour (maybe intentionally, maybe because somebody missed a voice rack slot) but that's it. If and when these stations do roll a cold seg, it's not one of those "Oh wow" segues (Pink Floyd's "Money" to the Beatles' "Tax Man") that might have impressed a few listeners back in the day (and these days are inconsequential), but two hits that most listeners recognize. Most often played between the hits is a bumper/sweeper/jingle/voice tracked rollover, in every format, from WYRK to WBLK. Yesterday while listening to Kiss, I heard a power recurrent ballad, female roll into an uptempo current, male. Between the two was an imaging bumper. No big deal. They were hits. It worked.