The END returns

[radioprofessor]

Just was handed the latest few weekly numbers from Seattle and while KJR-FM and KPLZ continue to stay solid on top in the key demos, in my estimation the big winner in the PPM may be the END and MOVIN. The END was number 1 18-34 in the last couple of weeklies and ranks the highest 25-54 of the Entercom group in the latest weekly. I am not in the market, but listening on the stream the station seems to have gone back to its alternative roots with a good mix of currents and classic alternative cuts. The non-stop talk has dialed back, yet the station has a personality. MOVIN has given itself credability by soundly beating KUBE and now virtually tied with KBKS in the 25-54 numbers. THE END and MOVIN, were prime candidates for format flips in most people's opinions, now they have become players in the younger demos.
In my humble view with the arrival of the PPM numbers in July many clusters will be faced with more internal battles than external, as we saw in SF and LA. With KUBE going to more music in the morning without T-MAN the station that will be hurt is KBKS. With END gaining strength the stations most hurt are KISW and KMTT. With KZOK gaining strength, the station most hurt is JACK-FM. KWJZ is picking up some listeners and that hurts KRWM. Broadcasting in the PPM world will create a whole new parameter for these groups, in my humble view.

 

[TVradioguru]

Actually KNDD has been doing pretty well since PPM started. TU whatever and the others who have been bashing the station claiming it's on deaths door should be eating some serious crow about now.

 

[Rock 100.7]

Maybe Lazlo wasn't so bad after all? I'm just sayin.

 

[djdan]

The END does sound much better since February and is back on my favorite buttons for the first time in a long time. As a core thirtysomething that loved the original END in the 90's the station is more true to that sound. Adam Carolla, Lazlo and even Andy Savage were not good fits. The END is about music, with local DJ's that don't get in the way of the music but add to it. They seem to be back on that path. My comments as a fan.

From the sales side it will be tricky for Entercom. KNDD is their best rated station right now. KISW has been falling since the start of the PPM and it is way off from its number one finish in the diary days 25-54. KMTT does not do well in the PPM with KNDD beating it across the board. When the PPM becomes currency it won't be easy to get the dollars for KISW, KNDD and KKWF. KNDD is a tougher demo sell so it won't make up the dollars lost on the sales front.

18-34 is shaping up to be a battle between KBKS, KNDD, KQMV, KKWF and KUBE starting to gain a bit. 25-54 it is still KPLZ, KJR-FM and KJAQ with KZOK gaining in the last couple of weeks. Everyone else is quite a bit farther back.

On the spoken word front it is all KUOW. The station ranks 6th overall 25-54 and has the numbers of KIRO and KOMO combined. Maybe news and talk does work on the FM, it just happens to be NPR. Wonder what KIRO, KOMO, KVI, KTTH, KIRO-AM and KJR-AM will do?

Things seem to be settling out on the ratings side. Now it will be the sales side that will see the next wave of change when these numbers become currency in mid-July.

 

[TakeItFromMe]

Hey Cowboys! I almost gave up on this board after endless posts about Steve (loser) Ballmer and Tropo conditions blah blah blah You bet the END is back and better than ever ;D PPM for Entercom has two winners: THE END and THE WOLF 8) THE WOLF is tied with KMPS on the rolling average and kills em 18-34. The END is on a ROLL ;D Got to say MOVIN is surprising me. The mornings got no game, but the rest of the station is giving KISS a run for its money and is pounding KUBE :-* With T-MAN gone KUBE will get back to the music and make this a horse race betweeen a buncho stations for 18-34. WOLF or END may win it

One thang I don't see is format changes ??? The likely candidates were JACK, THE END, MOVIN, JAZZ and KJR-FM. JACK, END, MOVIN and KJR-FM got good numbers and ain't goin anywhere. Even Smooth JAZZ is picking up some numbers. The other thing is what do you change a station to? OLDIES. CLASSIC HITS, AC ??? Not much there cowboys. Oldies is missing, I guess, but there ain't a station to change, unless KIRO-FM wants to bring it back ;D Or maybe THE TRUTH goes Oldies since Am radio blows in the PPM

 

[IREALLYLOVERADIO1]

I never post on this board HOWEVER, Takeit, I think we have oldies stations, Id say its talk radio. The people who are that who remember Elvis et. al. are a dying breed, the new oldies are KZOK and KJR-FM sad to say. oh yeah and since this is a string on KNDD GO END!! Ive been a fan for years and heading out of the DEMO but I have returned, Im just interested to see how RED in the mornings fits in.

 

[Mamaknowsbreast]

I don't hear that change people seem to talk about with the End. They dabbled tossing in more classic alt. tracks and have went back to shoving MGMT, Kings of Leon, and that one Airborne Toxic Event song down the listeners throat every hour.

Look I understand times are tough and companies are cutting back and watching their bottom line, but that doesn't mean I need to root for these stations that are fully automated or employ folks with little or no large market experience, while market vets that I grew up listening to here in Seattle remain on the beach. And please if anyone hops on here and tells me the End is in better shape than it was when they had a stellar airstaff in the late 90's early 2000's, may I recommend you put down the crack pipe. And while you're doing that I will continue to root against stations like Jack and the End, and lend my support to stations that will spend the money on quality air talent.

 

[djdan]

The change in the END has been pretty dramatic since Feb or March. It started with Adam Carolla going away and going back to music. I get to listen for thirty to fourty minutes in the morning and 20-30 minutes in the afternoon and I like Kings of Leon and that ATE song. The mix is much better.

Your comments reminded me of the original staff of the END. What made the station great was Noble Broadcasting's cadre of "non-major market talent" Just guys that liked music like Rick Lambert and Marco Collins. The END lost its way in the mid-nineties as they brought in "Major market talent." In the end, the END was all about regular sounding guys ( albiet one with an english accent) that were into the music and creating radio. Noble didn't spend much money and it worked.

Maybe the END is really getting back to its roots. The difference between the END today and the END in January is close to a complete transformation. The PPM agrees.

 

[TVradioguru]

I don't hear that change people seem to talk about with the End. They dabbled tossing in more classic alt. tracks and have went back to shoving MGMT, Kings of Leon, and that one Airborne Toxic Event song down the listeners throat every hour.

Look I understand times are tough and companies are cutting back and watching their bottom line, but that doesn't mean I need to root for these stations that are fully automated or employ folks with little or no large market experience, while market vets that I grew up listening to here in Seattle remain on the beach. And please if anyone hops on here and tells me the End is in better shape than it was when they had a stellar airstaff in the late 90's early 2000's, may I recommend you put down the crack pipe. And while you're doing that I will continue to root against stations like Jack and the End, and lend my support to stations that will spend the money on quality air talent.

So even with all the information counter to what you believe, you still stand by your guns that KNDD is broken? And no, I'm not on crack, quite the opposite; KNDD by pure ratings comparison is doing better now than it did in the late 90's. Sorry, but your perception is no where close to reality. PPM has proven that the VAST majority of people in that demo don't want yakky jocks talking about their past concert experiences or opinion on whatever; they just want music for free.

But please don't let me or the facts disturb your flailing at windmills...

 

[Mamaknowsbreast]

The facts? Early 2000's the End was constantly pulling a mid 3 share 12+ and even higher in key demos. It was by far recognized by radio folks as 1 of the top 5 alt. stations in the country. Can the same be said now?

And if their listeners don't want jocks that run their yapper, how do you explain Carolla pulling in much higher numbers than any of their other dayparts?

 

[ambandwidth]

Why does everybody suddenly put all this creedence in the PPM? Oh yeah, it's infallable , there's been no complaints in other markets (sic).

Re:"Maybe Lazlo wasn't so bad after all" - revisionist history my friend, holds as much water as, oh, say
"Maybe Keller,Rosetti,No Name,etc. weren't so bad after all"

 

[TVradioguru]

The facts? Early 2000's the End was constantly pulling a mid 3 share 12+ and even higher in key demos. It was by far recognized by radio folks as 1 of the top 5 alt. stations in the country. Can the same be said now?

And if their listeners don't want jocks that run their yapper, how do you explain Carolla pulling in much higher numbers than any of their other dayparts?

Other than being interested in one particular Alternative Rock station, you don't know much about how radio works do you? The aforementioned being made clear by your last post, let me assure you that nobody sells buys or sells advertising based on 12+. To site your 12+ example is silly to say the least.

KNDD sells 18-34 demo, primarily males. That's the typical demo alternative format stations target. Unlike you, I have been receiving rating data for several years from Seattle. PPM has been very good to KNDD of late. But even under previous diary methodology and much to your dismay/statements, KNDD has been pretty solid in demo for quite a while. Adam Corolla did okay to be sure, his demos were spread out past the 18-34 target, which would be a tougher sell. If I were the GM knowing what I know now about who is actually listening, I would go lots of music in the morning with a slight bit of Daily Show kind of news and traffic. Forget trying to revolve a morning show around a single personality. That ship has sailed and sunk.

Look TU don't like the station? Super! Get out that wonder of technology, your IPod and make your own playlist. There is no need to be embarrassed further with your claims of knowing how a station is doing, when it's painfully obvious that you indeed have no clue.

 

[Dick Skinner]

Wow! Tough room.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

Wow! Tough room.

Unfortunately, "Guru" is really more of a "moghul." He chastizes everyone who challenges the notion that the sales and accounting departments get to dictate program content, since that's the only vision most of the pro-consolidation NAB-board-sitting I've got mine and you're fired crowd can offer. And look at what the public gets now when three GMs run 90% of the signals in a market, and they still whine they can't make it pay off and pay for an airstaff and news department.

Frankly I doubt he's ever held an airshift or worked at a function where you interact with the listeners face to face. I've asked him publicly in a civilized tone to engage this board as a place for open thinking, whether or not you agree with what someone says, without the sniping. However, his chastizing of certain posters gets really old, and usually only serves to stifle discussion (notice how often his is the last posting on a topic?). The "you don't know what it takes to run a business!" rants (oh, really?) have the same effect as leaving a turd on the dinner table. i.e. "everyone leaves the room with a bad taste in their mouth."

The posters of this message board (no matter how naive nor how well-connected they are) are being treated by some of these declarations the same way as to-may of our commercial radio brethren treat the listeners to any of the frequencies they control on the dial. "Take it or leave!" And I think we all deserve better.

 

[dtuba]

Exactly! Great post Goldilocks. This forum exists for all facets of the broadcasting chain, not just the GM/GSM/AE's of the local radio industry. Last time I checked it was radio-info.com not radiosalesinfo.com.

Let us dream, dammit.

 

[TVradioguru]

You can certainly dream all you want, however when you start making claims that from a factual perspective aren't true, whether because you don't work in the business or turn the discussion into a "radio is dying" because.. then count on actual radio professionals to jump in and call you on it.

If TU whatever were to give an opinion about how they would like to hear something or another on KNDD, that would be perfectly reasonable. But to go on an on about how a station is somehow on deaths door from a ratings or business perspective, like they are some authority on the matter with insider knowledge, that is when I (or others here) will call them on it. Opinion is free, deception is wrong.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

You can certainly dream all you want, however when you start making claims that from a factual perspective aren't true, whether because you don't work in the business or turn the discussion into a "radio is dying" because.. then count on actual radio professionals to jump in and call you on it.

If TU whatever were to give an opinion about how they would like to hear something or another on KNDD, that would be perfectly reasonable. But to go on an on about how a station is somehow on deaths door from a ratings or business perspective, like they are some authority on the matter with insider knowledge, that is when I (or others here) will call them on it. Opinion is free, deception is wrong.

Gu - I actually do agree with you on this. I think some postings reflect the same kind of hyperbole and over-reaction that seems to dominate the culture of commercial broadcasting -- and a lot of its programming. Some specifics on what a person does or doesn't like about a particular station's presentation will give us all something to discuss that gets us away from our own pre-conceptions, which are obviously personal and not an objective way of measuring things. And it ought to be more than just a couple of songs or artists one does or doesn't personally like.

Likewise I'd like to suggest that a lot of the content and presentation styles of many radio stations can be up for discussion -- and what they broadcast can be modified -- without upsetting the tenets of the business model practiced by most commercial broadcasters. A sales department whose income lives and dies by a half point change in the latest Arbitron ratings is also not very wise or capable of creative ways of making a living. Options for making a living while operating a radio station that listeners will go out of their way to listen to -- now there's a thread I'd like to see someone start. Of course, if a conglomorate is having to pay off heavy debt in an unreasonably short amount of time for a shareholders meeting, and it costs air staff their jobs as a way of showing a leaner "bottom line" for next quarter's figures -- well, maybe that corporation needs to diversify into running casinos, brothels, and other highly profitable short term rackets that the mafia so aptly control - 'cuz reality means you have to give something a chance to work, and be in it for the long haul, or else your business model has failure built into its very foundation.

Just my over-arching opinion on some of the root causes of why so many professional broadcasters, among others, are uneasy with the current state of the industry.

 

[radioprofessor]

This thread was merely observation about the PPM parameter regarding THE END. The station has seen the greatest percentage increase in the PPM compared to the diary. Male numbers, whether PPM or diary tend to move around a bit. It is my view THE END got lucky since I do not believe Adam C. would have performed well in a PPM environment. By playing more music and going back to what made the station work 15 years ago, THE END has become a ratings factor in my humble opinion. Alternative radio, whether it be Houston, LA or Seattle is a solid performer in the PPM, when done correctly. Was just reviewing pre-currency data out of San Diego and the Alternative station there is looking very strong as well.

 

[TVradioguru]

You can certainly dream all you want, however when you start making claims that from a factual perspective aren't true, whether because you don't work in the business or turn the discussion into a "radio is dying" because.. then count on actual radio professionals to jump in and call you on it.

If TU whatever were to give an opinion about how they would like to hear something or another on KNDD, that would be perfectly reasonable. But to go on an on about how a station is somehow on deaths door from a ratings or business perspective, like they are some authority on the matter with insider knowledge, that is when I (or others here) will call them on it. Opinion is free, deception is wrong.

Gu - I actually do agree with you on this. I think some postings reflect the same kind of hyperbole and over-reaction that seems to dominate the culture of commercial broadcasting -- and a lot of its programming. Some specifics on what a person does or doesn't like about a particular station's presentation will give us all something to discuss that gets us away from our own pre-conceptions, which are obviously personal and not an objective way of measuring things. And it ought to be more than just a couple of songs or artists one does or doesn't personally like.

Likewise I'd like to suggest that a lot of the content and presentation styles of many radio stations can be up for discussion -- and what they broadcast can be modified -- without upsetting the tenets of the business model practiced by most commercial broadcasters. A sales department whose income lives and dies by a half point change in the latest Arbitron ratings is also not very wise or capable of creative ways of making a living. Options for making a living while operating a radio station that listeners will go out of their way to listen to -- now there's a thread I'd like to see someone start. Of course, if a conglomorate is having to pay off heavy debt in an unreasonably short amount of time for a shareholders meeting, and it costs air staff their jobs as a way of showing a leaner "bottom line" for next quarter's figures -- well, maybe that corporation needs to diversify into running casinos, brothels, and other highly profitable short term rackets that the mafia so aptly control - 'cuz reality means you have to give something a chance to work, and be in it for the long haul, or else your business model has failure built into its very foundation.

Just my over-arching opinion on some of the root causes of why so many professional broadcasters, among others, are uneasy with the current state of the industry.

And I agree with you Goldi (is the world ending?)

Debate and discussion is always healthy. And even though I for one believe in the broadcasting model, I'm always up for listening, discussing or answering questions where I am able. In our particular company, we do a lot of research even in a down economy. We ask for opinions all the time. But not to pat myself on the back for being a good listener or anything of the sort, as long as the discussion is honest and based on personal opinion, I'm open to pretty much any suggestions.