The Evolution Of AOR

[Talk_Dude]

Your last comment sounds more like my argument than yours!

No doubt (not the band)....as for "oldies", their programming has changed drastically. Growing up, oldies meant Elvis, Chuck Berry, The Platters, etc...the "oldies" station in Boston now plays The Eagles, Journey, The Police, etc...mixed in with 60's R&B, an occassional 50's song, but most of their playlist is music of the 70's....but station like these are not even considered "oldies" anymore, they call them classic hits, not to be confused with classic rock.
Then there are the DJ less stations like Mike FM that play "everything"...not really everything...I have never heard Frank Zappa, King Crimson, or Velvet Underground, but you will hear Donna Summer, then Led Zeppelin, and then Johnny Cash. In the end, you are most likely to hear a bunch of crap, and one hit wonders (Billy Don't Be a Hero, The Night Chicago Died, etc...). Stations like these are hit based playlists...playing hits from various genres, be it rock, soul, rap, hip hop, etc...

You're also missing the point. "Oldies" didn't mean the artists of the 1950's. It meant songs that were X number of years old. Eventually, as the years went by, and everything got one year older, the songs got too old and were dropped. I wish I know what it would take to get radio people to use their brains for a change and recognize that "Oldies" means songs between 25 and 40 years old (more or less). Every year, the songs that turn 41 are dropped, and the songs that turn 25 are added. Is that such a difficult concept to understand? Yeah, a few exceptions might hang around a few years longer, or get added a few years early. It isn't an exact science.

You are right about the genres within the world of "Oldies" (aka "vintage songs"). When the charts split away from just Top 40 into into AOR, "urban", and the other genres, then the songs between 25 and 40 years old (more or less) from the genres are now the "classic" of their genres.

 

[mcamp]

Your last comment sounds more like my argument than yours!

No doubt (not the band)....as for "oldies", their programming has changed drastically. Growing up, oldies meant Elvis, Chuck Berry, The Platters, etc...the "oldies" station in Boston now plays The Eagles, Journey, The Police, etc...mixed in with 60's R&B, an occassional 50's song, but most of their playlist is music of the 70's....but station like these are not even considered "oldies" anymore, they call them classic hits, not to be confused with classic rock.
Then there are the DJ less stations like Mike FM that play "everything"...not really everything...I have never heard Frank Zappa, King Crimson, or Velvet Underground, but you will hear Donna Summer, then Led Zeppelin, and then Johnny Cash. In the end, you are most likely to hear a bunch of crap, and one hit wonders (Billy Don't Be a Hero, The Night Chicago Died, etc...). Stations like these are hit based playlists...playing hits from various genres, be it rock, soul, rap, hip hop, etc...

You're also missing the point. "Oldies" didn't mean the artists of the 1950's. It meant songs that were X number of years old. Eventually, as the years went by, and everything got one year older, the songs got too old and were dropped. I wish I know what it would take to get radio people to use their brains for a change and recognize that "Oldies" means songs between 25 and 40 years old (more or less). Every year, the songs that turn 41 are dropped, and the songs that turn 25 are added. Is that such a difficult concept to understand? Yeah, a few exceptions might hang around a few years longer, or get added a few years early. It isn't an exact science.

You are right about the genres within the world of "Oldies" (aka "vintage songs"). When the charts split away from just Top 40 into into AOR, "urban", and the other genres, then the songs between 25 and 40 years old (more or less) from the genres are now the "classic" of their genres.

Any which way you would like to spin it...The Eagles are not oldies.
The genre "oldies" doesn't really exist on the radio anymore, because radio does not service 50's rock and roll. As I said, they are called "classic hits", by the powers that be, because they will play The Temptations, The Beach Boys, Stevie Wonder...where classic rock doesn't touch any of these artists. And I do disagree....I think it is an exact science, or so they think it is.....they bring in focus groups, on-line surveys, to home in on certain age groups. No chances taken today! They'll narrow it down to what month you're born.

 

[Talk_Dude]

Any which way you would like to spin it...The Eagles are not oldies.

Have you seen them lately! Glenn Frey looks like a grandfather!

 

[2ndsout]

Your last comment sounds more like my argument than yours!

No doubt (not the band)....as for "oldies", their programming has changed drastically. Growing up, oldies meant Elvis, Chuck Berry, The Platters, etc...the "oldies" station in Boston now plays The Eagles, Journey, The Police, etc...mixed in with 60's R&B, an occassional 50's song, but most of their playlist is music of the 70's....but station like these are not even considered "oldies" anymore, they call them classic hits, not to be confused with classic rock.
Then there are the DJ less stations like Mike FM that play "everything"...not really everything...I have never heard Frank Zappa, King Crimson, or Velvet Underground, but you will hear Donna Summer, then Led Zeppelin, and then Johnny Cash. In the end, you are most likely to hear a bunch of crap, and one hit wonders (Billy Don't Be a Hero, The Night Chicago Died, etc...). Stations like these are hit based playlists...playing hits from various genres, be it rock, soul, rap, hip hop, etc...

What would you say if I told you that I know of a Show that currently airs, that plays cuts from Frank Zappa and King Crimson...?

 

[Talk_Dude]

Your last comment sounds more like my argument than yours!

No doubt (not the band)....as for "oldies", their programming has changed drastically. Growing up, oldies meant Elvis, Chuck Berry, The Platters, etc...the "oldies" station in Boston now plays The Eagles, Journey, The Police, etc...mixed in with 60's R&B, an occassional 50's song, but most of their playlist is music of the 70's....but station like these are not even considered "oldies" anymore, they call them classic hits, not to be confused with classic rock.
Then there are the DJ less stations like Mike FM that play "everything"...not really everything...I have never heard Frank Zappa, King Crimson, or Velvet Underground, but you will hear Donna Summer, then Led Zeppelin, and then Johnny Cash. In the end, you are most likely to hear a bunch of crap, and one hit wonders (Billy Don't Be a Hero, The Night Chicago Died, etc...). Stations like these are hit based playlists...playing hits from various genres, be it rock, soul, rap, hip hop, etc...

What would you say if I told you that I know of a Show that currently airs, that plays cuts from Frank Zappa and King Crimson...?

I'd say that teasing by asking "What would you say" (twice, in two separate threads) instead of just giving the information sucks.

 

[2ndsout]

Your last comment sounds more like my argument than yours!

No doubt (not the band)....as for "oldies", their programming has changed drastically. Growing up, oldies meant Elvis, Chuck Berry, The Platters, etc...the "oldies" station in Boston now plays The Eagles, Journey, The Police, etc...mixed in with 60's R&B, an occassional 50's song, but most of their playlist is music of the 70's....but station like these are not even considered "oldies" anymore, they call them classic hits, not to be confused with classic rock.
Then there are the DJ less stations like Mike FM that play "everything"...not really everything...I have never heard Frank Zappa, King Crimson, or Velvet Underground, but you will hear Donna Summer, then Led Zeppelin, and then Johnny Cash. In the end, you are most likely to hear a bunch of crap, and one hit wonders (Billy Don't Be a Hero, The Night Chicago Died, etc...). Stations like these are hit based playlists...playing hits from various genres, be it rock, soul, rap, hip hop, etc...

What would you say if I told you that I know of a Show that currently airs, that plays cuts from Frank Zappa and King Crimson...?

I'd say that teasing by asking "What would you say" (twice, in two separate threads) instead of just giving the information sucks.

Didn't mean to post in two threads. Got a bit carried away. Wow. A bit touchy are we?

 

[upstate29651]

I'm just guessing that most 20 year olds don't want to hear their music mixed with something that's 43 years old.

Bingo! As I stated on another board, your typical Linkin Park listener does not wish to hear Van Halen or Aerosmith thrown in the mix.

The idea that active rock MUST have classics (not 90's gold or more recent currents & re-currents) is laughable & illogical, based upon P1 preferences (M 18-34). The upper end may...MAY be ok with some old Ozzy, but when you introduce crap hair bands, you're really pushing it.

Rock is dying & the only viable way to save it is to drawn a line between the hair bands & the grunge era.

G

 

[JimmyJames]

Are there any real AORs left that aren't "active" rock or morphed into Triple A or classic rock?

 

[Talk_Dude]

I'm just guessing that most 20 year olds don't want to hear their music mixed with something that's 43 years old.

Bingo! As I stated on another board, your typical Linkin Park listener does not wish to hear Van Halen or Aerosmith thrown in the mix.

The idea that active rock MUST have classics (not 90's gold or more recent currents & re-currents) is laughable & illogical, based upon P1 preferences (M 18-34). The upper end may...MAY be ok with some old Ozzy, but when you introduce crap hair bands, you're really pushing it.

Rock is dying & the only viable way to save it is to drawn a line between the hair bands & the grunge era.

G

The problem is that not everyone of a certain age is automatically "your typical Linkin Park listener". There are younger people today who prefer the newer stuff, and there are younger people today who've sampled the new stuff on one station and the vintage stuff on another station, and decided that they like the vintage stuff better. The days of "generation gaps" and being able to predict what kind of music someone will gravitate towards based only on their birthday are long gone.

Are there any real AORs left that aren't "active" rock or morphed into Triple A or classic rock?

I doubt if there are any stations that simply ask two questions about a song before they play it. Those questions are: (1) Does it sound good? and (2) Will our audience like it? Maybe if the suits running radio could stop wasting their time worrying about whether or not their playlist is AAA, or AOR, or CHR and just play music that's "PDG" (Pretty Darn Good) more stations would get better ratings.

 

[mcamp]

A few comments here.....yes, I do think that the generation gap has become a grey area.
In the movies, advertising, etc...classic rock is still a dominate fixture. There is still a pop scene that attracts a young audience, but many of the fringe bands are left with a select group of fans.
I think that the "metal scene" tends to attract a hardcore bunch, and more or less, not likely to drift too far from the genre, where as, the Counting Crows, Pearl Jam, Vampire Weekend crowd has a more broad taste in music.
Obviously, I'm taking a few liberty's with my generalizations, but isn't that what a program director does? They are trying to figure out their audience, and not everything is a hit.
As time goes on, and more lines are drawn in the sand, programming is most likely to become more compartmentalized: music of the 60's, music of the 70's, music of 2020's, etc...

 

[AM FM listener]

Interesting thread. I see similar discussions regarding CHR, AC, Urban and Oldies, all of which have fragmented into various sub-categories in the same way as AOR has. I think Rock (AOR) formats have fragmented the most though, followed closely by Oldies formats. So much so that there are few old fashioned AORs or Oldies stations left. Each has less than a 2% share, nationally, according to Arbitron's Radio Today 2010. The good news though is that collectively, all the rock and quazi-rock formats are still doing well.

 

[upstate29651]

I'm just guessing that most 20 year olds don't want to hear their music mixed with something that's 43 years old.

Bingo! As I stated on another board, your typical Linkin Park listener does not wish to hear Van Halen or Aerosmith thrown in the mix.

The idea that active rock MUST have classics (not 90's gold or more recent currents & re-currents) is laughable & illogical, based upon P1 preferences (M 18-34). The upper end may...MAY be ok with some old Ozzy, but when you introduce crap hair bands, you're really pushing it.

Rock is dying & the only viable way to save it is to drawn a line between the hair bands & the grunge era.

G

The problem is that not everyone of a certain age is automatically "your typical Linkin Park listener". There are younger people today who prefer the newer stuff, and there are younger people today who've sampled the new stuff on one station and the vintage stuff on another station, and decided that they like the vintage stuff better. The days of "generation gaps" and being able to predict what kind of music someone will gravitate towards based only on their birthday are long gone.

Not doubting what you're saying, but how about tossing out some links that lend creedence to your position?

My thought is....the younger people, on whole, will gravitate towards the NEW stuff, because it's A: New, and B: something they can make their own (as their parents have made VH, Aerosmith, Ozzy, etc their own).

G

 

[atlantaboy]

Most of the AOR stations from the 1980's through the 90's either evolved into Active Rock (KRZR-103.7) or Classic Rock (KLOS-95.5).

Pretty sure a lot of AOR's ended up as Alternatives also

AOR splintered into Active Rock, Classic Rock, and Alternative, just like many CHRs from the 80s/early 90s splintered into Rhythmics and Hot ACs

 

[WBIMDJ]

I'm just guessing that most 20 year olds don't want to hear their music mixed with something that's 43 years old.

Bingo! As I stated on another board, your typical Linkin Park listener does not wish to hear Van Halen or Aerosmith thrown in the mix.

The idea that active rock MUST have classics (not 90's gold or more recent currents & re-currents) is laughable & illogical, based upon P1 preferences (M 18-34). The upper end may...MAY be ok with some old Ozzy, but when you introduce crap hair bands, you're really pushing it.

Rock is dying & the only viable way to save it is to drawn a line between the hair bands & the grunge era.

G

The problem is that not everyone of a certain age is automatically "your typical Linkin Park listener". There are younger people today who prefer the newer stuff, and there are younger people today who've sampled the new stuff on one station and the vintage stuff on another station, and decided that they like the vintage stuff better. The days of "generation gaps" and being able to predict what kind of music someone will gravitate towards based only on their birthday are long gone.

Are there any real AORs left that aren't "active" rock or morphed into Triple A or classic rock?

I doubt if there are any stations that simply ask two questions about a song before they play it. Those questions are: (1) Does it sound good? and (2) Will our audience like it? Maybe if the suits running radio could stop wasting their time worrying about whether or not their playlist is AAA, or AOR, or CHR and just play music that's "PDG" (Pretty Darn Good) more stations would get better ratings.

Exactly. Just go on youtube and find an older song, and you'll find PLENTY of people who say the same thing: "I'm (insert teen year here, usually 14 or 15), and I love this song! I dislike most of today's music, wish it were as good as (insert song decade here)."

 

[Neanderpaul]

Are there any real AORs left that aren't "active" rock or morphed into Triple A or classic rock?

Far be it from me to actually plug...but http://kdkb.com

We're neither Active, nor Classic.

We're a Rock Station. That's it.

 

[radiobum]

if lee abrams was still hitchhiking today, he might be robbed or shot. he supposedly came up with AOR..or his version..based on people listening to the radio when he got into the car.