The Fall Of Rome?

[DToTheJ]

Some may argue that "The Jungle" is not as visible as it once was many years ago. Recent years have seen his show being pared by an hour, or dropped altogether by some affiliates.

Last week, WKNR in Cleveland, one of the show's most dedicated stations, having hosted many a "tour stop", announced that one of the local hosts' programs would be expanding by an hour, which meant a shortened Van Smack program. This in spite of some on R-I's own Cleveland board predicting that the latest in a string of "major announcements" from WKNR would not impact Rome's show, as it was one of the better things going for the station.

Also, the longtime Rome station in Nashville purged "The Jungle" in favor of local fare. Take into consideration that some major cities like New York and Chicago don't carry the show, after it was carried there for a period of time many years ago.

And some may believe that the departure of longtime producer Travis Rodgers to Houston may have an impact on the show.

So, as Romey would ask his listeners... What's your "take"? (And make sure it doesn't suck. ) Can anyone explain the decreasing amount of "jungle love" in sports radio?

 

[quadraphonic]

There are more options, even on regional/local levels, than there was when Rome started out, or even when The Jungle was "big."
That's probably been the biggest impact.
Then there's the fact (okay, opinion) that the show hasn't changed for the better in a while (the loss of TRog was a change, but not for the better), and Rome didn't seem to want to change anything when I used to listen, so that kind of keeps the show from being "fresh" and it gets kind of stale after a while.

 

[stod]

Major markets should be local all day, IMO.

 

[Upper90]

I prefer national during the day and then local during drive time. I am a long time listener to Rome. It is a very difficult task indeed to come up with 15 hours of entertainment each week while trying to be different than locals i.e. no "so what do you think about this trade..." type calls. The day that Henry Winkler showed up to confirm the whole "I told Potsie I would do this" charade I got nothing done in the office, absolutely nothing. Those days don't happen every day that is for sure, some of the interviews are just painful and there is definitely repetition. But compared to some other drivel out there (hello Loose Cannons!) I rate it second behind DP for sports talk on the radio but as he says often it is an acquired taste.

 

[UpstateNYBill]

Major markets should be local all day, IMO.

Just listen to NYC local sports radio and you may change your opinion. Nothing but fangirls and armchair GMs all day saying the Yankees should trade a single A benchwarmer for an All Star player. No thanks to local talk all day.

 

[stod]

I listen to The Ticket out of Dallas all day. Local from 6AM to 7PM.

 

[quadraphonic]

Yeah sometimes Rome comes up with a gem, but they are fewer and farther between lately.
I still remember like four years back, might've even been six now, some caller glossed over a whole interview with some athlete, blew up how great a guy was, how he talked about this and that and was all kinds of a good guy, but the athlete had not called in for the interview all day. It's times like that where Rome gets to rip someone who patently deserves it that are the best.

OT but related: like tonight, some caller on Hannity (rarely listen) called in 2:45 into the show, 15 minutes before the end, and asked his opinion on the Egyptian Mubarek protests and curfews. He said "I've been talking about that all day."

 

[lifeguardofradio]

Colin obviously has his own opinions, like them or not. Jim gets his writers to write his show.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Some may argue that "The Jungle" is not as visible as it once was many years ago. Recent years have seen his show being pared by an hour, or dropped altogether by some affiliates.

Last week, WKNR in Cleveland, one of the show's most dedicated stations, having hosted many a "tour stop", announced that one of the local hosts' programs would be expanding by an hour, which meant a shortened Van Smack program. This in spite of some on R-I's own Cleveland board predicting that the latest in a string of "major announcements" from WKNR would not impact Rome's show, as it was one of the better things going for the station.

DToTheJ, this is far more attributed to bad programming on WKNR's own end - starting at the top with owner Craig Karmizan, Mel's son. The move has been heavily criticized and attacked among the station's entire listening base. For God sakes, it was the top rated program on the station for how many years? 13?

What makes it worse is that WKNR scooted the first hour to their puny sister station, daytime-only "KNR2" WWGK/1540, which sports 1,000 watts but is primarily an East Side-only signal (unavailable anywhere to the south, west, or east of the main city). In fact, KNR2 is an internet radio station with a small transmitter attached to it. The signal will not be upgraded at any time, because of NIMBYs in the city where the proposed upgrade was to take place. (Craig has also cited the proliferation of smart phones and internet streaming as another reason; those likely attest for 90-95% of KNR2's imperceptible listener base.)

WKNR has always been a target for their midday show that expanded to four hours. It's not because of the host, Tony Rizzo, a veteran sportscaster and morning show sidekick who recently left his night job as TV sports anchor for Fox affiliate WJW/8 (and now has a minimum ownership stake in WKNR). Rather, Rizzo's show suffers greatly, mainly because of the putrid supporting cast, which includes sidekick/once-and-former-APD/station-owner's-very-very-very-close-buddy (and unapologetic Denver native/OSU hater) Aaron Goldhammer and one-note board-op Chris "Jake DelHomme Sucks" Fedor.

Often, I've gotten into fights about whether Rizzo & Co. is worse that "SuperStation KLAC"/FSR's Petros Papadakis and Matt Smith. Quite honestly, they are equally bad, but IMO, PMS get the "worst sports show" by default because they are syndicated. But PMS doesn't play girly-pop songs as bumper music (at Goldhammer's insistence since day one of the Rizzo show in 2007). In a "state of the station" program on WKNR this past Tuesday, Craig himself insisted that he wanted to expand the show to four hours, but couldn't move it to 8am-noon due to terms of the ESPN Radio contract (the must-carry rule for Mike & Mike comes into play; the fourth hour of M&M was banished to KNR2 back in September 2009, and the Bristol suits obviously warned him against an 8am start time).

Plus, you made the inference that WKNR was the only Rome affiliate in the entire region. This is hardly accurate. The show is also carried on WARF/1350 Akron (which is easily receivable in Cleveland and some surrounding regions, and has been airing ads saying "hear the whole program here!") and on WNIO/1390 Youngstown. And there are distant affiliates like WDFN/1130 Detroit, WCWA/1230 Toledo and WGR/550 Buffalo.

This move is as bad as the infamous replacing of Glenn Beck for Jerry Springer on Cleveland's main talk station (and the top-rated AM station in the market) WTAM/1100, back in 2005. Engineered by Kevin Methany, WTAM's ratings cratered by 66% in that timeslot while the entire listening base tuned to stations in Elyria, Akron and Ashtabula to listen to Glenn. Eventually, Jerry was canned for a local host, and eventually brought Glenn back. (Check the archives on the Cleveland board for more...)

I give WKNR three months before they restore the first hour of Rome. That, or Premiere Radio will shred the contract and designate WARF the de-facto Rome affiliate for Cleveland (or somehow, move it to another station). Either way, Craig Karmizan will have egg on his face.

Also, the longtime Rome station in Nashville purged "The Jungle" in favor of local fare. Take into consideration that some major cities like New York and Chicago don't carry the show, after it was carried there for a period of time many years ago.

Didn't the ESPN O&Os in NY and Chicago drop Rome several years back? That's not news. Plus his show never fared well in Washington, DC or in Baltimore (WTEM/DC infamously cut off the first hour so as to air Tony Kornheiser live, which they fed to ESPN Radio... a distinction that Rome often used in slams against what was then "Sports Talk 980."

WGFX/Nashville dropped the show over a year ago. I don't know the situation - but it could be the same exact factor coming into play there (show just doesn't connect with the local audience). That, or it may have been more due to Citadel owning the station.

And some may believe that the departure of longtime producer Travis Rodgers to Houston may have an impact on the show.

I won't deny that. There's a more gimmicky aspect to it now. But it, again, has done tremendously well in Cleveland. WKNR's botch-up was unnecessary and akin to a Phyrric victory (where they won the battle for more local programming, but lost dearly to attain it).

So, as Romey would ask his listeners... What's your "take"? (And make sure it doesn't suck. ) Can anyone explain the decreasing amount of "jungle love" in sports radio?

Again, I seriously have to differ. There's plenty more years of jungle love left in the tank for Rome. The dumb dumb dumb move by WKNR is the textbook example of a "Triple U."

 

[Leebo65]

Nathan that was a little hard to follow. Why did the local Cleveland show deem it necessary to expand to 4 hours..? 3 hours is a significant time slot.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Nathan that was a little hard to follow. Why did the local Cleveland show deem it necessary to expand to 4 hours..? 3 hours is a significant time slot.

You're telling me. Even Tony Rizzo - the host - went on the air to say he DIDN'T even want a four-hour show!

Part of it seems to be rooted in giving Rizzo's show a promotion. Even in spite of the putrid supporting cast, it is the highest rated local program on the station (Rome's was the highest rated show overall.)

Rumors surfaced throughout the whole week prior to the announcement that Rizzo & Co. were going to take the afternoon slot on WKNR to compete against the market's long-time top-ranked talker, WTAM/1100's Mike Trivisonno. On his part, "Triv" posted on his FB profile that Rizzo's move to afternoons was a 'done deal.' And after the fourth hour at noon was announced instead, Triv ripped Rizzo and insinuated that Rizzo backed out.

(And for those who listen to "Triv" know, he doesn't post stuff like that without a reason to do so. He wanted to start a radio war. But since WTAM is the central hub for CC's news and traffic departments - and has play-by-play rights to every major sports franchise in town, it wasn't going to be a fair fight.)

Craig Karmizan has gone on the record saying that the locally-produced programs do better in the ratings than national sports shows, which necessitated a four hour for Rizzo. What Craig fails to take into account was 1) the summer months were dominated with talk about the destruction of the Cleveland Cavaliers (an anomaly that will never occur in this market again), and 2) the highest amount of sports attention in the market is when the Cleveland Browns take the field... a season that is over.

WKNR is the default sports station in Cleveland. Their play-by-play is limited to the Ohio State Buckeyes, the Lake Erie Monsters (AHL) and the Cleveland Gladiators (AFL). Annnnd... that's it. They could operate with terrible programming (and they did for several years when Salem Communications owned it) and still be the only option to turn to outside of WTAM. Sad.

 

[smileyjew]

You can't listen to Rome for a few minutes without his soundboard going crazy. I don't want to hear that crap. It's really annoying and his show keeps incorporating more of it.

 

[Rusty Muck]

You can't listen to Rome for a few minutes without his soundboard going crazy. I don't want to hear that crap. It's really annoying and his show keeps incorporating more of it.

Listen to Aaron Goldhammer simply ruin Tony Rizzo's WKNR show on a daily basis and you will change your tune, believe me.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Nathan has covered most of the basics re: the WKNR move, but just some of my own thoughts:

* Rome, as far as I know, is still strong for 'KNR. It has always had a "special place" in the Jungle, and Romey has been brought to town about four times, last I heard. Last he was here, a year or two back, he went on for nearly a half-hour about how great "C-Town" was, as a sports town and a Jungle mainstay.

* If he's faded in his time here, I don't think it's to the point that one hour of the show should have been pushed to a station almost no one in the market can hear clearly. (As I quipped at the time, WWGK/1540 can be heard "on parts of Euclid Avenue" without static.)

And as Nathan pointed out, Rome can be heard loud and clear in a decent chunk of the Cleveland market on Clear Channel sports WARF/1350 "Fox Sports 1350", which has been relentlessly promoting the fact that you can "hear the whole show here". WARF shoots a nice little lobe up north straight into downtown Cleveland.

While it's not a Cleveland market station, last week I drove up 77 into downtown Cleveland and it was strong and quite listenable, and static free, all the way to Progressive Field. There are many parts of the Cleveland market where WARF is the more listenable option at noon vs. WWGK. Many. (Many folks on the far west side have trouble with both, but a lot of the core suburbs immediately south of the city get WARF in their teeth.)

So, why extend Rizzo to 1 PM?

It's all about the money.

Simply put, Rizzo admitted on the air that he got a "substantial" raise from WKNR after ending his run at "Fox 8", and the station needs to make more money off him. So, another hour of Joebees, and Smart Shingles, and other local sponsors pays for Rizzo's bigger take (and he plows some of that money back into Good Karma as a low-end minority owner).

It's a "win win" for everyone except the Jungle faithful, forced to choose between a puny local signal, an out of town signal or three, or smartphone apps/streaming for their hero.

Prediction? 1350 gets a small bump in the Cleveland ratings - much like sister talk WHLO/640 did when it carried Glenn Beck after Oak Tree lost its mind and put Jerry Springer on WTAM/1100.

And it gets a slightly larger bump in Akron, where many still tune to Rome on 850 out of habit.

We're not talking insane bumps here...syndicated sports talk, even at the level of Jim Rome, is still more about the targeting of men vs. 12-plus or 6-plus ratings. But, a bump nonetheless.

 

[GenXRadio]

I listen to Rome on KHHO from 9-12 then go to listen to Bob & Groz on 710 but sometimes find myself turning Rome off and coming back hoping there won't be yet ANOTHER scripted call.
I just can't stand the scripted call, i understand it's better than the guy who stammers and can't get his thoughts together but when you let someone read a scripted rant for 3+ minutes it gets lame, no matter how many funny references sports or non sports they throw in.
JT the Brick is another one who lets in the scripted calls and revels in them, the minute I hear one in the works I flip the dial and just hope when I come back the "caller" is done.
For the most part Rome's show is fun & engaging, you always know he's going to have A list guests, I do get a chuckle when an interviewee asks him about "Larry Brown's crank" not knowing what that is all about and that the guy "Toby from Houston" or someone who gets a laugh out of it has set the interviewee up with the question to ask Rome which of course he hates and you can hear his exasperation at getting "got" again.
I do agree though that in major markets most of the day should be live and local, maybe after 7 PM at night if you don't have PxP then you go to network but in a major market you should be live all the rest of the time.

 

[Leebo65]

Jim Rome's A List.... hahahahahahahaha Yeah inarticulate Athletes and self-promoting Coaches. Colin Cowherd has it figured out for guests. Bring people on who have something to say.

 

[DToTheJ]

GenX above talks about how JT the Brick and Jim Rome both take "scripted" calls... hello, JT is a direct descendant of Rome!

 

[JeeperOne]

Major markets should be local all day, IMO.

Just listen to NYC local sports radio and you may change your opinion. Nothing but fangirls and armchair GMs all day saying the Yankees should trade a single A benchwarmer for an All Star player. No thanks to local talk all day.

Well that's because it's stuff which guys can identify with. An example of this was just today as Denver's (Still) newest sports station 102.3 The Ticket (Which used to be on 87.7) had an interview with a couple of beaut.....err.....contestants for the 2011 Colorado Hooters Pageant. Why? Because it's stuff guys can identify with.

You wouldn't hear that in an office.

Cheers