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The Fan a Flop?

R

RadioInsider23

Guest
Hard to believe 92.3 The Fan has been in existence almost two years already. I think most sports talk fans were understandably excited that there was finally some competition to WKNR. It hasn't been all bad (get to that in a second), but so far I think it's safe to say, it's been far from a radio-dynamo people were hoping for. I'll leave my comments and hope to hear some genuine discussion

6-10 Kiley and Booms. Obviously the show isn't for everyone, but this was a semi-successful national show years ago and I was excited for its return. Unfortunately, this is more of a national show. They've done some pretty important segments that no other sports talk radio would touch, but is that what local people want? Recent ratings have taken a dip, but I feel this show is being wasted on a local format. Their topics and hosts seem much more ambitious than a morning zoo format. My guess is that they have peaked in this market. Both are consummate radio pros. I get that people hate Chuck, or Kevin's persistent negativity, but if you step out of that, they strive (and many times succeed) at being pretty entertaining. Not your run-of-the-mill boring sports show.

10-2 Baskin and Phelps. Hard to believe this show made it past 6 months considering their horrible ratings and bland personalities. This show reminds me of the old WKNR shows (think Bill Needle). It's one topic, throw out the numbers, take a call, rinse and repeat. Both are nice enough guys (and much stronger on the TV), but don't radio people have strong have opinions? Neither sound too much like they even care about sports. Neither really come off as identifiable on the air as fans of the teams. I can't imagine this show coming back for a third year. They need radio guys in this slot to offer an alternative to Rizzo

2-7 Bull and Fox. I thought this show had plenty of potential but kind of feel that Bull is going through the motions in this market (he sounds like he's got one foot out the door towards New York), while Dustin needs a co-host with better chemistry. Bull is a baseball guy in a football market. Also, five hours is probably 2 hours too long for this show. I get saving money, but by 5:30 they are pretty stale everyday - which is when people get in their car. They probably get the best guests on the station, which saves them. I do think Bull is a talented guy but he just comes off too serious and his rants seem forced. Dustin needs much more polish but I think he's come a long way.

7-12 Ken Carman. All and all, I gotta give it to Ken for being able to talk for as long as he can by himself. No easy task in a town like this (we aren't NY or Philly). It just seems like most nights he's talking in circles to fill time waiting for phone calls. Ken is well on his way to having a nice career in this town but needs to slow down, gather thoughts, breathe and form an opinion. He sounds like an auctioneer who doesn't know where his sentences are going. Still a very young guy who shows potential. Just not sure his act fits into other timeslots at this point. He sounded miscast to me when paired up with Chuck Booms.

Now, I've seen the ratings recently for the station and they've taken a step back in the last 3 months, which is not a good sign. Perhaps football will help them, although it will be interesting to see the ratings bounce the station probably assumes it will be getting. The real question, who is the station grooming for down the line? Or will it take from outside? There's a lot of weekend programming that is rather forgettable. I've heard Carman and Lima do the brunt of the fill-in work, there's potential there no doubt.

Anyone else's thoughts?
 
RadioInsider23...sad to say, by and large I agree with you.

My thoughts about Cleveland's sports talk show hosts haven't changed much since 923TheFan launched.

On 923, of the fulltimers I like Jeff Phelps (rarely hear Carmen because I'm watching Tribe or Cavs at night).
On WKNR...have always liked Brinda, Roda, and Reghi...of the regular "fulltimers". The rest are whiners or screamers. And, since I'm not 16 any more....that stuff bores me to tears.

923 has that ridiculous coverage area for a multi-county larger market. Surely WNCX must be billing a lot more than 923...and maybe CBS was wise not to have flipped frequencies based on the rather timid ratings. Guess I was way wrong there.

All in all, you've gotta give it to WKNR. Up against seemingly insurmountable odds against them (an FM competitor and an international media company-CBS)...they've held up pretty well with poor night coverage and marginal day coverage to the eastern counties....all this in a down economy in a declining rust-belt market.
 
Ken Carman is the best thing going on the fan today. I don't mind Baskin/Phelps I just believe they each need a stronger partner. Phelps possibly paired with Bull and Baskin with Les Levine or Dennis Manoloff. Dustin Fox is awful, I have made no secret about my dislike of him as a radio personality. Has not improved over the past 2 years at all, should be relegated to being an analyst on a pre or post game show about football only. Kiley and Booms are decent no issues there.
 
With the games on two other and better signals I don't see WKRK getting much of a ratings pike from being the third banana. They don't even get any credible bragging rights out of this deal. Their regular P1s will stay tuned to 92.3, as will the P1s from WKNR and WNCX stay with their respective signals. Destination listeners will probably first go to WTAM or WMMS and when they realize the games aren't there, they'll hit the scan button. AM listeners will probably find the game at 850 and FM listeners will most likely gravitate to 98.5.
 
I see.

What about when the signal for 850 switches from daytime to nighttime, especially with daylight savings changes in the fall. Where would listeners go to after that? Likely in Cleveland either 92.3 or 98.5 'NCX might get a lot of listeners as you said, though I think CBS is going to push more for listeners to hear the games and the postgame show on The Fan because it's a 'Sports' station.
 
SonoSational18 said:
With the games on two other and better signals I don't see WKRK getting much of a ratings pike from being the third banana. They don't even get any credible bragging rights out of this deal. Their regular P1s will stay tuned to 92.3, as will the P1s from WKNR and WNCX stay with their respective signals. Destination listeners will probably first go to WTAM or WMMS and when they realize the games aren't there, they'll hit the scan button. AM listeners will probably find the game at 850 and FM listeners will most likely gravitate to 98.5.

WKNR, WKRK and WNCX are going to have to have a BIG advertising campaign to let listeners know the games are on those stations instead of WMMS and WTAM. Habits can be hard to change after years of familiarity.

Speaking of 'TAM and 'MMS, how have they been doing since they started teaming up on Indians games?
 
RadioInsider23 said:
Hard to believe 92.3 The Fan has been in existence almost two years already. I think most sports talk fans were understandably excited that there was finally some competition to WKNR. It hasn't been all bad (get to that in a second), but so far I think it's safe to say, it's been far from a radio-dynamo people were hoping for. I'll leave my comments and hope to hear some genuine discussion

6-10 Kiley and Booms. Obviously the show isn't for everyone, but this was a semi-successful national show years ago and I was excited for its return. Unfortunately, this is more of a national show. They've done some pretty important segments that no other sports talk radio would touch, but is that what local people want? Recent ratings have taken a dip, but I feel this show is being wasted on a local format. Their topics and hosts seem much more ambitious than a morning zoo format. My guess is that they have peaked in this market. Both are consummate radio pros. I get that people hate Chuck, or Kevin's persistent negativity, but if you step out of that, they strive (and many times succeed) at being pretty entertaining. Not your run-of-the-mill boring sports show.

10-2 Baskin and Phelps. Hard to believe this show made it past 6 months considering their horrible ratings and bland personalities. This show reminds me of the old WKNR shows (think Bill Needle). It's one topic, throw out the numbers, take a call, rinse and repeat. Both are nice enough guys (and much stronger on the TV), but don't radio people have strong have opinions? Neither sound too much like they even care about sports. Neither really come off as identifiable on the air as fans of the teams. I can't imagine this show coming back for a third year. They need radio guys in this slot to offer an alternative to Rizzo

2-7 Bull and Fox. I thought this show had plenty of potential but kind of feel that Bull is going through the motions in this market (he sounds like he's got one foot out the door towards New York), while Dustin needs a co-host with better chemistry. Bull is a baseball guy in a football market. Also, five hours is probably 2 hours too long for this show. I get saving money, but by 5:30 they are pretty stale everyday - which is when people get in their car. They probably get the best guests on the station, which saves them. I do think Bull is a talented guy but he just comes off too serious and his rants seem forced. Dustin needs much more polish but I think he's come a long way.

7-12 Ken Carman. All and all, I gotta give it to Ken for being able to talk for as long as he can by himself. No easy task in a town like this (we aren't NY or Philly). It just seems like most nights he's talking in circles to fill time waiting for phone calls. Ken is well on his way to having a nice career in this town but needs to slow down, gather thoughts, breathe and form an opinion. He sounds like an auctioneer who doesn't know where his sentences are going. Still a very young guy who shows potential. Just not sure his act fits into other timeslots at this point. He sounded miscast to me when paired up with Chuck Booms.

Now, I've seen the ratings recently for the station and they've taken a step back in the last 3 months, which is not a good sign. Perhaps football will help them, although it will be interesting to see the ratings bounce the station probably assumes it will be getting. The real question, who is the station grooming for down the line? Or will it take from outside? There's a lot of weekend programming that is rather forgettable. I've heard Carman and Lima do the brunt of the fill-in work, there's potential there no doubt.

Anyone else's thoughts?

At least the weekday lineup has remained stable for two years. Weekends have always changed. So much that you would have to check the Fan online schedule to see who's on there.
 
"BIG ad campaign? I wouldn't bet on it. Indians numbers this year are up somewhat overall but they are canabalizing WTAM somewhat. WKRK will have the official post game show so I assume that will be promoted in game on the CBS stations. Guessing tht WKNR will not be running the same promos. They'll probably figure things out eventually but I suspect the first year is going to be a CF.
 

At least the weekday lineup has remained stable for two years. Weekends have always changed. So much that you would have to check the Fan online schedule to see who's on there.
[/quote]

Can't believe they stuck with the same lineup for two years given their ratings struggles. I've seen sports stations blow up programming in as little as six months
 
I must admit 2 years ago I thought I would be done with KNR-92.3 for me just has not had a "breakout" star or show like Really Big Show-I think they thought Adam the Bull would be it-I just can't get into Bull and Fox at all-during football season, on Mondays and Fridays I'm tuning into KNR to hear Grossi. I think 92.3 needs a major shakeup-and I'm praing the don't give Chris Fedor a full time slot.
 
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