The First Rap Song

[landtuna]

Music is in the age of the beholder...

With all due respect.....no, it isn't. Music appreciation may be in the age of the beholder but the definition of music certainly isn't.

Genuine music has certain esoteric qualities that define sound as music. Without these qualities it is just noise. Chuck Berry and Glenn Miller both had these qualities although their music was very different. Jazz is different than polka but both are music.

 

[billyg]

From what I read the first rap record was "King Tim III (Personality Jock)" by the Fatback Band which came out in 1979 several months before The Sugarhill Gang's "Rappers Delight". http://youtu.be/ig3313DhcB8

But I really think this is the first rap record ;D http://youtu.be/z4A2GBbz7RE

 

[hornet61]

From what I read the first rap record was "King Tim III (Personality Jock)" by the Fatback Band which came out in 1979 several months before The Sugarhill Gang's "Rappers Delight". http://youtu.be/ig3313DhcB8

But I really think this is the first rap record ;D http://youtu.be/z4A2GBbz7RE

correct-o-mundo..King Tim III charted (10/06/1979) actually one week ahead of Rapper's Delight on the R&B chart, but because It never charted on the hot 100 and "Rapper's Delight", did, on 11/09/1979, Rappers is the is the more well known.....curious to know which cut was recorded first, it's probably pretty close. The fatback band surpprisingly had no songs on the hot 100, but charted 31cuts on the R&B chart....I played "Gotta get Some Money" and "Backstrokin' alot at a club.

 

[GridLeakBias]

Music is in the age of the beholder...

With all due respect.....no, it isn't. Music appreciation may be in the age of the beholder but the definition of music certainly isn't.

Genuine music has certain esoteric qualities that define sound as music. Without these qualities it is just noise. Chuck Berry and Glenn Miller both had these qualities although their music was very different. Jazz is different than polka but both are music.

"The border between music and noise is always culturally defined—which implies that, even within a single society, this border does not always pass through the same place; in short, there is rarely a consensus.... By all accounts there is no single and intercultural universal concept defining what music might be." "My own position can be summarized in the following terms: just as music is whatever people choose to recognize as such, noise is whatever is recognized as disturbing, unpleasant, or both."
~Jean-Jacques Nattiez - Professor of Musicology, the Université de Montréal

 

[landtuna]

"The border between music and noise is always culturally defined—which implies that, even within a single society, this border does not always pass through the same place; in short, there is rarely a consensus.... By all accounts there is no single and intercultural universal concept defining what music might be." "My own position can be summarized in the following terms: just as music is whatever people choose to recognize as such, noise is whatever is recognized as disturbing, unpleasant, or both."
~Jean-Jacques Nattiez - Professor of Musicology, the Université de Montréal

With apologies to the good professor, noise is not always unpleasant or disturbing. The sound of wind through the forest trees is noise, not music, but is most pleasant to the majority of people. A baby's babble is definitely not music but is virtually universally appreciated.

I do agree that music is somewhat culturally defined. A digaree-do produces just two notes yet is considered a musical instrument by the aborigines of Australia. Most of us in North America would not consider the sound it makes 'music'. Likewise, percussion by itself is not music even though it contains some elements.

 

[firepoint525]

From what I read the first rap record was "King Tim III (Personality Jock)" by the Fatback Band which came out in 1979 several months before The Sugarhill Gang's "Rappers Delight". http://youtu.be/ig3313DhcB8

correct-o-mundo..King Tim III charted (10/06/1979) actually one week ahead of Rapper's Delight on the R&B chart, but because It never charted on the hot 100 and "Rapper's Delight", did, on 11/09/1979, Rappers is the is the more well known.....curious to know which cut was recorded first, it's probably pretty close. The fatback band surpprisingly had no songs on the hot 100, but charted 31cuts on the R&B chart....I played "Gotta get Some Money" and "Backstrokin' alot at a club.

"Rapper's Delight" sampled "Good Times" by Chic, which came out earlier in 1979, so I would think that that would limit how old "Rapper's Delight" could have been.

 

[flytrap]

someone mentioned Commanders Cody's 70's hit "Hot Rod Lincoln". That song was actually a remake of a 1955 record by Charlie Ryan. (there was also a 1959 version) It was later remade by Johnny Bond in 1960. This type of "rap" record goes back further that that. "Hot Rod Lincoln" was actually a sequel or "answer" record to an earlier song by Arkie Shipley called "Hot Rod Race". That particular song had also been recorded by several people, including Red Foley, Jimmy Dolan Tiny Hill, and Charlie Ryan (who also recorded Hot Rod Lincoln)

 

[GridLeakBias]

"The border between music and noise is always culturally defined—which implies that, even within a single society, this border does not always pass through the same place; in short, there is rarely a consensus.... By all accounts there is no single and intercultural universal concept defining what music might be." "My own position can be summarized in the following terms: just as music is whatever people choose to recognize as such, noise is whatever is recognized as disturbing, unpleasant, or both."
~Jean-Jacques Nattiez - Professor of Musicology, the Université de Montréal

With apologies to the good professor, noise is not always unpleasant or disturbing. The sound of wind through the forest trees is noise, not music, but is most pleasant to the majority of people. A baby's babble is definitely not music but is virtually universally appreciated.

I do agree that music is somewhat culturally defined. A digaree-do produces just two notes yet is considered a musical instrument by the aborigines of Australia. Most of us in North America would not consider the sound it makes 'music'. Likewise, percussion by itself is not music even though it contains some elements.

I believe, upon close reading of the statement by Mssr Nattiez, his point was this: Sounds which one finds disturbing and/or unpleasant can be classified as "noise." Noise can also be pleasant sounding, as you so stated.

 

[Silkie]

Old "rap", that was not called rap was okay.

Madison Time, by The Ray Bryant Combo is another one of those early "rap" songs.

 

[cd637299]

Old "rap", that was not called rap was okay.

Madison Time, by The Ray Bryant Combo is another one of those early "rap" songs.

"Two points!!"

cd

 

[landtuna]

I believe, upon close reading of the statement by Mssr Nattiez, his point was this: Sounds which one finds disturbing and/or unpleasant can be classified as "noise."

I agree and have found all rap falls into the noise category. ;D

 

[hornet61]

From what I read the first rap record was "King Tim III (Personality Jock)" by the Fatback Band which came out in 1979 several months before The Sugarhill Gang's "Rappers Delight". http://youtu.be/ig3313DhcB8

correct-o-mundo..King Tim III charted (10/06/1979) actually one week ahead of Rapper's Delight on the R&B chart, but because It never charted on the hot 100 and "Rapper's Delight", did, on 11/09/1979, Rappers is the is the more well known.....curious to know which cut was recorded first, it's probably pretty close. The fatback band surpprisingly had no songs on the hot 100, but charted 31cuts on the R&B chart....I played "Gotta get Some Money" and "Backstrokin' alot at a club.

"Rapper's Delight" sampled "Good Times" by Chic, which came out earlier in 1979, so I would think that that would limit how old "Rapper's Delight" could have been.

Yes, this might makes Rapper's older than King Tim by 4 months..(Good Times debuted on 6/16/1979)...

 

[hornet61]

In reality we are all wet, the very first Rap song was..

are you ready for this.....

Drumroll please...

Hey girl, I betcha, there's someone out to get ya,
You'll find him anywhere, on a bus, in a bar, in a grocery store.
He'll say "excuse me, haven't I seen you somewhere before?"

[Chorus:]
Rap-a-rap-a-rap, they call him the Rapper.
Rap, rap, rap, know what he's after.

So he starts his rappin, hoping something will happen,
He'll say he needs you, a companion, a girl he can talk to,
He's made up his mind, he wants someone to sock it to.

[Chorus]

He's made an impression, so he makes a suggestion,
Come up to my place, for some coffee, or tea, or me.
He's got you where he wants you, girl you gotta face reality.

Yes, The Rapper by The Jaggerz ....how can we not agree on this.....

 

[firepoint525]

[Chorus:]
Rap-a-rap-a-rap, they call him the Rapper.
Rap, rap, rap, know what he's after.

That was the second-most cringeworthy attempt at a rhyme that I could ever recall. Second only to "taxes" and "facts is" ??? by Steve Miller in "Take the Money and Run."

Another "rap" song: "Smokin' in the Boys' Room" by Brownsville Station: "Listenin' to the teacher rap just ain't my bag." Listening to the teacher "rap" might actually be more interesting than listening to him/her "teach." ;D

 

[johnbasalla]

Early in this thread, it was mentioned that Billboard considers "Rapture" as the first chart-topping Rap hit. It really is a hybrid Rock-Funk song with a Rap segment. I wouldn't call it a "Rap" record myself. We could agree that the mass popularization of the form began with "Rapper's Delight" by The Sugarhill Gang as it did crack the mainstream Top 40. I think we should be careful not to label every spoken word-rhyming song/performance as "Rap". The early development of Rap as we know it can be traced at least to African-American poet GIL SCOTT HERON. His poetry set to music encompasses some of the key elements of today's Rap music. That's not just me sayin' either. Impactful people in the Rap industry also credit him with being a "godfather" of Rap. Listen to his "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" - particularly the studio version - released as a single on Flying Dutchman Records (Manufactured and Distributed by Atlantic) in 1969-1970. In 1993 Gil Scott Heron cut a CD/LP called "Spirits". The first track is "Message To The Messenger". Here, backed by some low-key funky music, he talks to contemporary Rappers. He asks them to stop the bad stuff going on in Hip-Hop/Rap and also thanks them for respecting him and giving him credit for being an early influence on the genre of Hip Hop and Rap music.
Sadly, Gil Scott Heron passed away in 2011 at the age of 62.

 

[cd637299]

[Chorus:]
Rap-a-rap-a-rap, they call him the Rapper.
Rap, rap, rap, know what he's after.

That was the second-most cringeworthy attempt at a rhyme that I could ever recall. Second only to "taxes" and "facts is" ??? by Steve Miller in "Take the Money and Run."

But even *that* corny rhyme by Miller doesn't top his use of the word "pompitous" (in "The Joker"), which was a totally made-up word by Miller:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pompitous

Was thinking of starting a thread about totally bogus words used in hit songs.....starting with that one, but I think the thread would be short.

[According to Wikipedia - which I believe in this instance - the lyrics to "As I Lay Me Down" by Sophie B. Hawkins include the background singing "ooh la kah koh", which is something she just wrote down. "After initially explaining this meant 'wash your feet before you sleep' in an African language, Hawkins admitted that she actually made up the phrase while recording, and it has no particular meaning."---This was explained in Oct 2011, 16 years after the song came out!!]

Okay back to the rap thread....had to get that off my chest

cd

 

[DJKraze]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

"King Tim III (Personality Jock)" is a 1979 song by the Fatback Band from the disco album XII. Released on July 25, 1979,[1] several weeks before "Rapper's Delight" (which is widely regarded as the first commercially released hip hop song), this song is often cited[2] as the beginning of recorded hip hop. The title refers to vocalist Tim Washington.

The song was originally the B-Side of the 7-inch single, with the A-Side "You're My Candy Sweet" a mid-tempo disco song. However the song stalled at #67 after 4-weeks on the R&B chart and was replaced the following week with "King Tim III (Personality Jock)" on the chart. It peaked at #26 on the R&B chart and stayed on for 11 weeks.

1.^ Publication date of "King Tim III" as given in the copyright registration of the 7-inch single. Its copyright was registered on August 29, 1979. The publication date of "Rapper's Delight" as given in its copyright registration was August 25, 1979, and its copyright was registered on September 24, 1979.
/end wiki quote

I'd say this makes the first actual Rap record without morphing the definition to include the various other spoken word or rhythmicly spoken forms mention here (it could be said that Skat singing is a form of rap, but that wouldn't make it be accepted by the tyical street DJ, I used to tease a few lesser DJ's and say Devil Went Down To Georgia is a Country rap, but again, those things could get you shot at in certain places at certain parties)

 

[jhimbo]

About the Steve Miller made up word, I may be wrong, but it is also used by Wolfman Jack in his rap on the Guess Who's "Clap for the Wolfman". Doesn't this predate Steve Miller?

 

[jhimbo]

I was wrong. Steve was first in'73. Guess Who :'74.

 

[firepoint525]

[Chorus:]Rap-a-rap-a-rap, they call him the Rapper.
Rap, rap, rap, know what he's after.

That was the second-most cringeworthy attempt at a rhyme that I could ever recall. Second only to "taxes" and "facts is" ??? by Steve Miller in "Take the Money and Run."

But even *that* corny rhyme by Miller doesn't top his use of the word "pompitous" (in "The Joker"), which was a totally made-up word by Miller:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pompitous

Spelling it that way (ending in -ous) gives the impression that the word should have been used as an adjective (say, "you pompitous jerk!" or something like that), but in the book He's Got the Whole World in His Pants (and more misheard lyrics), author Gavin Edwards spells that word as "pompitus" in his reference to "The Joker" on page 91 of that book. (One of the misheard lyrics of that line is probably not printable here! ;D)