The Future Of Commercial Talk Radio

[JustPastBuffalo]

A respected republican consultant offered some interesting analysis of the election results. His comments parallel Parks' observation. He said, "we (republicans) have lost the ability to understand the tone of the discussion. As a result, we're tone deaf to the needs of voters that should be welcome in our party. We need these voters." He went on to say (paraphrasing) that Republicans erred in attempting to take the Tea Party under the GOP wing, only to be bitten by it because the Tea Party and Republican Party should be considered two separate entities, which in the political sense, is a good thing.

If this analysis is applied to talk radio as well (in that there are distinctions to be made between appealing to Republicans, Libertarians and members of the Tea Party) does this then point to a fragmentation of conservative talk radio? This won't happen in a market like Buffalo where the three most powerful AM facilities are owned by the same company.

Also, there's been little mention made of 1520 WWKB. You'd think Buffalo's 50 thousand watt progressive talk station would get some ink here after the Democrats won, but KB wasn't even part of my radio scan which included WBEN, WGR, WBFO and CFRB to get the Canadian perspective on the US election. Did anybody spend any time listening to KB?

 

[benson86]

KB's Randi Rhodes is just as much of a nut job as anyone on WBEN, only from the other side. I try listening for a while, then she goes off the wall and it's bye-bye.

 

[SirRoxalot]

In WNY, one company owns all the really viable AM signals. If the boys on 'BEN modify their approach, there's no place for the extreme right-wingers to go. If anything, they'd be listening just so they could call in to disagree.

I don't expect WBEN to suddenly shift to left-wing talk (which can be equally appalling), but I don't think that they can afford to not get more inclusive, especially considering the community that they're in. This is big union territory, and dominated by Democratic politics. There's plenty to talk about that needs discussion. It also requires talent and producers who'd have to work a little harder instead of simply parroting the topics of national hosts and pundits.

 

[TheBigA]

In WNY, one company owns all the really viable AM signals. If the boys on 'BEN modify their approach, there's no place for the extreme right-wingers to go.

The media world is a whole lot bigger than AM radio. And the fans of conservative talk will actively seek the alternatives out. Even if it's a 1K daytimer in Jamestown.

WGST Atlanta recently dropped conservative talk, allowing Rush and the rest to go to WSB. That left a 50,000 watt heritage talk powerhouse with absolutely nothing. Sure they could have hired a whole new local staff at great expense, but who? Who do you hire that has a built in audience to compete against talkers with 25 years in the market? That's the problem facing WBEN. You want intelligent talk? Buffalo already has WBFO.

 

[Element9]

In WNY, one company owns all the really viable AM signals. If the boys on 'BEN modify their approach, there's no place for the extreme right-wingers to go.

The media world is a whole lot bigger than AM radio. And the fans of conservative talk will actively seek the alternatives out. Even if it's a 1K daytimer in Jamestown.

Jamestown?

 

[SirRoxalot]

Big A is spewing nonsense again because he hasn't got a clue about the market.

BTW, I said modify, not abandon their approach. If you heard their programming, you'd know that there's plenty of room to move away from the lunatic fringe, and just go conservative.

 

[TheBigA]

Big A is spewing nonsense again because he hasn't got a clue about the market.

It's not nonsense...my point was that this is a dedicated audience. A heroin addict will go to extremes for his fix. Same with fans of conservative talk.

If you heard their programming, you'd know that there's plenty of room to move away from the lunatic fringe, and just go conservative.

I don't expect they'll take a chance on alienating their core...not enough upside for that. The fact is that ratings will go down regardless of what they do on the programming side. I expect WBEN will do what WHAM has already been doing.

 

[SirRoxalot]

"Alienate their core"? You mean the ever-shrinking bunch of 65-to-deaths? They added an FM signal in order to broaden their audience, and it meant nothing. They've got two guys pushing 70 in drive times. Rush's light is dimming. But programming's not the problem?

As far as WHAM is concerned, WBEN's been way ahead of them in cutting bodies. WHAM is the one playing catch-up in the race to the bottom.

 

[TheBigA]

But programming's not the problem?

That's not what I said. I said the ratings will go down regardless of what they do on the programming side. That means if they "modify" their approach, it will go down. And if they stay with what they're doing, it will go down. As you said, their audience is aging, and so is their staff. The ratings will go down, which mean the revenues will go down, which means they'll have less money for staff. The same problem exists at lots of AM news/talkers around the country.

However, WBEN is only directly responsible for the content of their local hosts. They have no input in the syndicated ones. So if they "moderate" their local hosts (I'd love to be present at that meeting), it will have no effect on Rush or Hannity. On the other hand, if Clear Channel does as the OP suggests, and moderates Rush & Hannity (once again, I'd love to be there for that meeting), it might have an effect on the totality of the format. But I really don't expect that to happen because, as I said, the audience for moderate talk isn't as large or loyal as the other folks.

 

[SirRoxalot]

You either don't get it, or are just being obtuse. Nobody's advocating that they suddenly become moderates. Vile, hate-spewing nonsense is simply not getting the job done anymore.

Nobody said anything about moderating the national acts that play on WBEN. There's only one of consequence - Rush. There's plenty of room to pull the local boys a little way back from the brink without becoming "moderates".

 

[TheBigA]

Nobody's advocating that they suddenly become moderates.

I thought I used your word: modify. It won't matter because, as I said, news/talk as a format has peaked.

Nobody said anything about moderating the national acts that play on WBEN.

Go back five pages to the original post in this thread from the VP of talk at CC. He has some influence over Rush and Hannity.

 

[Element9]

Here's how you "modify" hosts (right or left) who don't get that their shtick ain't working beyond reaching an ever-shrinking core of listeners who are aging and will soon become unsalable. Don't renew their contracts. You don't try to bring 'em to the waterhole because they're never gonna take a drink. And in a city like Buffalo, where else are they going to go? Jamestown? WJJL? WLVL? WECK? Not likely. Although, if anything were to put WECK on the map, Beach or Bauerle might be able to do it for a few glorious months, until WBEN crushes them again. We've seen this happen in major markets where the talent leaves a big signal and goes to an inferior signal. They get the love for a month or two and then it's over.

BTW, although Parks oversees CC radio station news-talk stations, he may not have any influence on Hannity or Rush. Those loons are probably on their own islands, which means they'll become more extreme.

And about WGST. It's now ESPN Deportes. The signal on 640 is 50kw daytime, 1 kw night, DA-1. Even on the low end of the band, 1 kw doesn't cover and penetrate a city as diverse and geographically spread out as Atlanta.

 

[TheBigA]

Here's how you "modify" hosts (right or left) who don't get that their shtick ain't working beyond reaching an ever-shrinking core of listeners who are aging and will soon become unsalable. Don't renew their contracts.

OK, so you get rid of the guys who made you a talk powerhouse. No problem. That's what KGO did in San Francisco. No more aging, expensive talk hosts with their aging, dying demographic. They were replaced by younger, lower cost local news readers. But did that return KGO to the top of the ratings ladder? No. Why? Because the real problem is AM radio. Sure, there are a handful of powerhouse AMs that still attract the numbers. But they're all heritage talkers with those aging hosts and demos that you're getting rid of. Once the heritage hosts are gone, the station is toast. Look at WMAL in DC. It too has an FM simulcast, and no one listens.

My point is that if WBEN follows your suggestion and cleans house, they're just accelerating their own demise. This is not to say they won't do it simply to save money. Lower ratings mean less revenue, whick means less money for talent. The question you need to ask yourself is are you getting rid of certain talent because you want to get better ratings, or because you don't like their schtick? If it's the latter, don't use the ratings as an excuse, because getting rid of them won't solve the problem.

 

[TheBigA]

Although, if anything were to put WECK on the map, Beach or Bauerle might be able to do it for a few glorious months, until WBEN crushes them again.

Depends on what WBEN replaces them with. There's a lot of syndication that would love a Buffalo signal. Michael Reagan, Herman Caine, and Mike Huckabee. You think any of them would "crush" local talk on WECK?

 

[Element9]

Conundrum wrapped in a riddle. Either way, the clock is ticking, whether on AM talk radio as a whole or at least one of the WBEN local talkers who's long in the tooth. WBEN isn't going to replace either of these guys with Mr. 9-9-9 and similar syndicated talkers. The station has a commitment to local programming in AM drive, early midday and PM drive and continues to survive, although trending down.

Posters not in WNY may not realize that a considerable portion of WBEN's strength comes from its news heritage. But this too is suspect, given its news department is stretched thin. WBFO may someday wrest the local news image from WBEN, but it's going to take a more aggressive posture on the street for that to happen. And it isn't as if WBFO has the younger end of the 25-64 demo. Both stations have upper demo issues. WBFO just has more listeners who believe the earth is more than 7,000 years old.

Local posters have made good points about WBEN having the capability (should it desire) of morphing to a center-right approach should that be necessary. Is Ron Dobson still part of the station? Conservative listeners aren't going to listen to a daytimer in Jamestown in southern Chautauqua county. The AMs barely reach the Cattaraugus creek in the daytime. Google 'em, A.

Should Beach and/or Bauerle depart (not likely, although Bauerle was yapping about it like a caged Schnauzer a few months ago), they wouldn't attract anywhere near the number of listeners doing Internet radio versions of their shows or going to WECK, WJJL, WLVL, WDOE, WJTN or WKSN. It says here that all systems, hosts and station, remain status quo and in a few years, the whole sh*thouse goes up in one giant flame. Could be said for most of the AM band. In the end, does it really matter? Not to this poster.

 

[TheBigA]

It says here that all systems, hosts and station, remain status quo and in a few years, the whole sh*thouse goes up in one giant flame. Could be said for most of the AM band.

That's what it looks like to me. They're going to ride this train right over the Falls without a barrel. If you want intelligent talk, listen to Terry Gross.

 

[SirRoxalot]

According to "TheBigA", AM's the problem. Well, WBEN addressed that by adding an FM. Other talkers in other markets have done the same. It hasn't changed the ratings. So, if it's not AM, and FM doesn't make a difference, then it must be radio, huh?

Or, maybe, just maybe, it's the PROGRAMMING. Let me repeat a couple of things that I've already said:

"Talk radio is going to need to pull itself back from either lunatic fringe if it's going to remain dominant - a least in a market the size of Buffalo. People are getting sick of the act - whether they tune in to agree, or tune in to observe the train wreck. This past election cycle has certainly burned people out."

"Will they modify their schtick for the sake of ratings? If they don't, the demographics aren't in their favor."

"I don't expect WBEN to suddenly shift to left-wing talk (which can be equally appalling), but I don't think that they can afford to not get more inclusive, especially considering the community that they're in."

Note that none of those statements advocated blowing up a format. Entercom has enough leverage to move these guys away a notch closer to the majority of the audience. There's room to add another host if necessary to offer a less polemic point of view.

The "money at stake" is going to drop if they don't do something. Since the lunatic fringe isn't as entertaining as it once was, and since those listeners have nowhere else to go in WNY, why not step away from the ledge and embrace a viewpoint that a few more listeners - both on AM and FM - might find listenable? People tend to listen to radio that agrees with their viewpoint. Well, it's eminently reasonable that presenting a viewpoint that more people agree with would bring in more listeners.

BTW, I don't give a rat's patootie about what other markets do, particularly major markets. Buffalo ain't NYC, LA, Atlanta, SF, or Chicago. It also ain't Jamestown, Erie, or Binghamton. It's big enough to attract very good talent, and small enough that Entercom can lock down a virtual monopoly on talk. NPR is the wild card here, but the management at WNYPB has demonstrated such ineptitude that they're not likely to challenge WBEN's new presence. WNYPB's biggest hope is that WBEN allows the current lineup to continue paddling toward the brink of irrelevance.

 

[cee]

IMHO, Both A and Rox make valid arguments. The long and short of it - political talk radio is on the outs and so is AM radio.

Can talk radio make a comeback on FM. We'll see.

 

[TheBigA]

According to "TheBigA", AM's the problem.

It's PART of the problem. A big part of the problem. And I agree that adding the FM didn't help, and it hasn't helped in other markets.

The "money at stake" is going to drop if they don't do something.

In point of fact, the "money at stake" dropped back in February. As I've said many times, most recently with regards to WHAM, there is a major advertiser ban against "controversial" talk radio. It's not just one host, but the entire genre. And the reality is that taming certain hosts, pulling them back from the "lunatic fringe," or whatever you want to call it, isn't going to change the impressions these advertisers have about talk radio. The big money pulled out, and it hasn't been replaced.

Having said all that, I still have no reason to believe WBEN will "modify" or do anything to change the style of their talk talent. They've had a good reason to temper their hosts for a long time, and haven't done it. I see no reason for them to all of a sudden change now.

If I'm wrong, tell me when the change happens. But until then, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[mpolbeat]

Is billing down at WBEN? If not considerably down, I don't foresee change