the good ol' days were not that great

[aquamaniac2]

It seems lately that there has been a lot of reminiscing about the good ol' days of radio. Specifically, about WIBC back in the day. I'll be the first to admit that radio today, specifically in Indianapolis is sub par. Let's be realistic though, 30 years ago, stations could go off the air for hours or even days, records skipped on the air, and countless other examples of why things are better now. I too wish that personality and creativity would reemerge at some point in radio, but I am growing weary of those that choose to put down stations today in order to build up the radio era of 30 years ago. I'm only in my early 20's but I'm smart enough to know that there was bad radio in the 50's, 60's and 70's just as there is now. The way to fix radio is make strong suggestions as to how to fix the problems facing the industry, living in the past does not accomplish anything.

 

[xmtrucker]

> It seems lately that there has been a lot of reminiscing
> about the good ol' days of radio. Specifically, about WIBC
> back in the day. I'll be the first to admit that radio
> today, specifically in Indianapolis is sub par. Let's be
> realistic though, 30 years ago, stations could go off the
> air for hours or even days, records skipped on the air, and
> countless other examples of why things are better now. I
> too wish that personality and creativity would reemerge at
> some point in radio, but I am growing weary of those that
> choose to put down stations today in order to build up the
> radio era of 30 years ago. I'm only in my early 20's but
> I'm smart enough to know that there was bad radio in the
> 50's, 60's and 70's just as there is now. The way to fix
> radio is make strong suggestions as to how to fix the
> problems facing the industry, living in the past does not
> accomplish anything.

Point well taken, grasshopper. It was that; records did not skip that often, and when it did, lets face it, depending on where the skip was, it was darn funny (of course, after the fact)!

Listen to airchecks (www.mp3airchecks.com) and the like. The jocks had knowledge (the area and the music), AND had to be entertaining. I once worked with a jock who turned down a job at WLW, was extremely personable on and off the air. His opinoin was the day Drake-Chanult started carded everything you said and when you said it was the day radio died.(Tom Petty's "Last DJ" right on the money).

Technology has improved the the sound of stations, yes. But with that, are stations listenable to the public?? That is the billion dollar question. Only time will tell
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by xmtrucker on 02/20/06 06:05 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[radioguy80]

I tend to agree with aqua on this. Maybe the reason Indy is subpar is because the same talent keeps getting recycled on 'new' formats. It's time to start passing the torch from the people who were good to the people who are good. Otherwise, radio will just lose us (30 and under in the business) to satalite, podcasting & TV.

 

[skipspence]

> To the under 30 guys and gals.... Yes...I do agree that Indy Radio is in a blue funk..... Nothing original these days, but all markets go through that... Indy did in the late sixties and again in the early eighties... Cycles happen.. But, Indy will always have some rich history of talent and shakers on the radio history blog.... The ups and downs of Burden's WIFE AM/FM and the scandle that cost them their FM license and the forcing of selling (then) the top CHR/Top-40 of that era.... The surprising success of WNDE from about 1974 through the late seventies, even with a hyper-directional signal that cut 23% of the metro population out of the nighttime signal....WNAP's original AOR then Hybrid Rock/Top-40 format of the mid to late seventies and eighties...The retirement of the automation on WFBQ and the creation of an AOR legend (when 'NAP abandoned the format)and along with that a team evolved named "Bob & Tom".... One of the longest running Country radio successes in the US with WFMS.... The early country legend of the WIRE, prior to 95.5's entry..... From the suburban local yokal 98.3/WART to metro Adult Contemporary Christian Love 98 for many years....The success of Gold-104.5 for years and the abrupt change to the "Jack" format... The downward spiral of WENS to a series of formats that couldn't make that Class "B" FM near the top.... Many other stories from all the way back when 1310 was WISH-AM and the such.... WTLC's first frequency and major urban success (now an gold A/C and calls moved to 106.7)....I could write chapters on the "Shirk" factor.... Oh, well....Just a dry time for Nap-Town...

 

[Kent]

Much of what you're saying is quite true. There are many people who post on these boards bashing the state of radio today who are definitely longing for a past that never was. Many of them also forget that, if the operators in the 60's and 70's who they adore so much had remained in radio, they, too, would almost certainly be at the forefront of many of these changes they complain about. Keep in mind that no matter what, the driving principle in radio hasn't changed one bit. That principle is that you get what you put into it. If you're a bitter person displeased with the changes in the industry, you're not going to get a thing out of the business. However, if you look at what you can learn and how you can do your job better and entertain your audience better, you will get much more out of the business. I hear much the same complaints about radio today that I've always heard and heard stories about from before my time. The only difference is that the villains have changed. Anytime there are changes, people have to change, too, and it's not easy. However, to refuse to embrace, or at least accept and roll with, the changes means a luddite approach that will not benefit you or those around you. One of my former PD's tells me the story about when he worked in Colorado Springs at KVUU. After the automation system arrived at KVUU and KSPZ, one of the PD's decided to learn everything he could about the system so he could make a better station. The other did everything he could to sabotage the system. You can guess which one survived and which got the axe in a hurry!

However, we have to keep things realistic. There have been some negative changes in radio, too. While I absolutely agree with those who say keeping the ownership caps at 7-7-7 would be impractical and a disaster, it's definitely easier to work for a company where your boss and his bean counters know your name. That doesn't happen when companies own hundreds of stations. Local news has also suffered a great deal. Once again, I agree with letting the market rather than the government dictate news requirements. However, even on stations that are trying to satisfy the news niches of their communities, you don't have nearly as many of the great newsrooms you had years ago. Much of it is outsourced through companies like Metro and Shadow, which means you'll hear the exact same news no matter where you turn the dial. Also, public service is now often stashing programs no one would want to listen to in hours in which no one is listening. Work hours have also increased as radio people now have to wear more hats at more stations than before. In this respect, it's just like most corporate business. However, the pay is substantially less than if you were working the same hours in a Fortune 500 company. That's definitely a major reason you really have to love radio to do it!

The bottom line is that the glass is either half full or half empty. It also has about the same amount of fluid in it that it had years ago. It's just that it was Coke but now it's Pepsi, or maybe it was regular but now it's diet. However, you get my point. Radio is what it is. It's not perfect, and many of the good things from the past have gone by the wayside while the technology has, at the same time, gotten rid of a lot of past irritations. You get what you want to get out of it.

 

[gr8oldies]

It's a bit sterile everywhere, but, unlike those of us in the biz maybe the listeners don't see it that way. As for the above comment about Drake, can anyone imagine people actually listening to a cowbell ringing early 60s jock talking incessantly in 2006? Or even an early 70s screamer?

 

[jimwalsh2001]

Some good points here. I'm fifty and old enough to remember how radio *really* was back in the day, and every time I hear or read some washed-up boss jock b****ing about how much better things were before Telecom '96, I just laugh...


> It seems lately that there has been a lot of reminiscing
> about the good ol' days of radio. Specifically, about WIBC
> back in the day. I'll be the first to admit that radio
> today, specifically in Indianapolis is sub par. Let's be
> realistic though, 30 years ago, stations could go off the
> air for hours or even days, records skipped on the air, and
> countless other examples of why things are better now. I
> too wish that personality and creativity would reemerge at
> some point in radio, but I am growing weary of those that
> choose to put down stations today in order to build up the
> radio era of 30 years ago. I'm only in my early 20's but
> I'm smart enough to know that there was bad radio in the
> 50's, 60's and 70's just as there is now. The way to fix
> radio is make strong suggestions as to how to fix the
> problems facing the industry, living in the past does not
> accomplish anything.
>

 

[Wazzie]

Personally, I can't name any air talent right now that excites me. The over researched, tight playlists and the liner card reading "jocks" just doesn't exude FUN. The technology today is outstanding (anyone really want to go back to splicing tape?) but the stations that are live and local and give their air talent some slack on the leash will be the winners. I don't hear that in my market.

BTW... in the 7 years that I DJed with vinyl, I never had a song skip or get stuck. With the computer, I've had dead air because of crashes & glitches. Prior to that, I had several carts jam or run out of phase.<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>

 

[RadioRob]

I could write chapters on
> the "Shirk" factor.... Oh, well....Just a dry time for
> Nap-Town...
>

Indiana radio needs a new minimum Bill Shirk, Vernon Nolte, or somebody of the like. Imagine the possibilities.
<P ID="signature">______________
The radio business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.</P>

 

[jcurtis]

> It seems lately that there has been a lot of reminiscing
> about the good ol' days of radio. Specifically, about WIBC
> back in the day. I'll be the first to admit that radio
> today, specifically in Indianapolis is sub par. Let's be
> realistic though, 30 years ago, stations could go off the
> air for hours or even days, records skipped on the air, and
> countless other examples of why things are better now. I
> too wish that personality and creativity would reemerge at
> some point in radio, but I am growing weary of those that
> choose to put down stations today in order to build up the
> radio era of 30 years ago. I'm only in my early 20's but
> I'm smart enough to know that there was bad radio in the
> 50's, 60's and 70's just as there is now. The way to fix
> radio is make strong suggestions as to how to fix the
> problems facing the industry, living in the past does not
> accomplish anything.
>
I'm someone who doesn't like to live in the past; I believe that all of my best days are ahead. However, there is no era of Indianapolis broadcasting that compares with the 1970's. WIBC alone had Gary Todd and Chuck Riley in drive; a news department which included Fred Heckman, Lou Palmer, Tom Cochrun and Mark Watkins; not just one sports guy, but four of the all time best together: Sid Collins, Jerry Baker, Bob Lamey and Joe McConnell; Paul Page in the helicopter, a big mama signal coated with reverb and Heller jingles. After WGN, it was maybe the greatest radio station - ever. But, that's not all. At the same time, we had Buster Bodine, Don Garrard and Cris Conner on one of the most deliciously electic stations in history: WNAP; Steve Cooper, Scott Wheeler and friends on WNDE; WIFE, a true Top 40 legend still cookin' along on 1310; A country powerhouse so strong that it helped shape the country music industry: WIRE; Super Jay, Amos Brown and an award winning news department on WTLC. And there's more: some guy named David Letterman was perfecting his gonzo interview style on WNTS and Jane Pauley said good night to us, every night on Channel 8.
Compare that time to this, or any other in the life of the Indianapolis market and the 1970's still wins.

Was it perfect? No. But there was much more good than there was bad about it.

 

[mwarner]

>
> BTW... in the 7 years that I DJed with vinyl, I never had a
> song skip or get stuck. With the computer, I've had dead
> air because of crashes & glitches. Prior to that, I had
> several carts jam or run out of phase.
>
heh heh...and don't forget that wonderful cue burn and the yahoo on the shift before you who yanked the cart before it was cued up--oh, yeah, and it was a 30-second spot that some other yahoo put on a 2 1/2 minute cart! and don't forget meter readings and splicing tape stuck to the bottom of your shoe...and searching for the piece of 1/4 inch tape that you inadvertantly dumped into the wastebasket! ahh, those were the days, indeed. Mike Warner

 

[mwarner]

> It seems lately that there has been a lot of reminiscing
> about the good ol' days of radio. Specifically, about WIBC
> back in the day. I'll be the first to admit that radio
> today, specifically in Indianapolis is sub par. Let's be
> realistic though, 30 years ago, stations could go off the
> air for hours or even days, records skipped on the air, and
> countless other examples of why things are better now. I
> too wish that personality and creativity would reemerge at
> some point in radio, but I am growing weary of those that
> choose to put down stations today in order to build up the
> radio era of 30 years ago. I'm only in my early 20's but
> I'm smart enough to know that there was bad radio in the
> 50's, 60's and 70's just as there is now. The way to fix
> radio is make strong suggestions as to how to fix the
> problems facing the industry, living in the past does not
> accomplish anything.
>
What a fascinating discussion you've initiated! I think more than anything, there is a certain camaraderie between the older dogs of b'casting, remembering the good more than the bad, as is typical with memory in general. "Better then" vs "better now" could be argued without resolution 'til we were all blue in the face. Oh, yes, there was some VERY BAD radio "back in the day". But what we reminisce about are the heydays in a station's (or market's) history; this is what gets etched into memory...not the mediocre or bad years. Technology has brought its own set of issues with which to deal; technology has not necessarily cured the ills of the past. What has been lost with technology, downsizing, and bottom-line broadcasting is the time--the actual hours in the day--that we used to have to devote to personality and creativity. "Back in the day" we had lots of people to do lots of jobs, which left time for the jocks to be jocks. Now jocks have to be voicetrackers plus 10 or 12 other things, to boot. So when we talk of the past, it's not because we necessarily want to live there, rather, it's sometimes just a fun place to visit! My best radio memories go back to 97WB (WBWB/Bloomington) from '84 to '86. Those were awesome years, we had a kickin' crew, and I'm so fortunate to have been a part of them. What a blast we had! Mike Warner

 

[bigtime]

Don't forget about Jery Dean Curtis on WNAP!


> > It seems lately that there has been a lot of reminiscing
> > about the good ol' days of radio. Specifically, about
> WIBC
> > back in the day. I'll be the first to admit that radio
> > today, specifically in Indianapolis is sub par. Let's be
> > realistic though, 30 years ago, stations could go off the
> > air for hours or even days, records skipped on the air,
> and
> > countless other examples of why things are better now. I
> > too wish that personality and creativity would reemerge at
>
> > some point in radio, but I am growing weary of those that
> > choose to put down stations today in order to build up the
>
> > radio era of 30 years ago. I'm only in my early 20's but
> > I'm smart enough to know that there was bad radio in the
> > 50's, 60's and 70's just as there is now. The way to fix
> > radio is make strong suggestions as to how to fix the
> > problems facing the industry, living in the past does not
> > accomplish anything.
> >
> I'm someone who doesn't like to live in the past; I believe
> that all of my best days are ahead. However, there is no
> era of Indianapolis broadcasting that compares with the
> 1970's. WIBC alone had Gary Todd and Chuck Riley in drive;
> a news department which included Fred Heckman, Lou Palmer,
> Tom Cochrun and Mark Watkins; not just one sports guy, but
> four of the all time best together: Sid Collins, Jerry
> Baker, Bob Lamey and Joe McConnell; Paul Page in the
> helicopter, a big mama signal coated with reverb and Heller
> jingles. After WGN, it was maybe the greatest radio station
> - ever. But, that's not all. At the same time, we had
> Buster Bodine, Don Garrard and Cris Conner on one of the
> most deliciously electic stations in history: WNAP; Steve
> Cooper, Scott Wheeler and friends on WNDE; WIFE, a true Top
> 40 legend still cookin' along on 1310; A country powerhouse
> so strong that it halped shape the country music industry:
> WIRE; Super Jay, Amos Brown and an award winning news
> department on WTLC. And there's more: some guy named David
> Letterman was perfecting his gonzo interview style on WNTS
> and Jane Pauley said good night to us, every night on
> Channel 8.
> Compare that time to this, or any other in the life of the
> Indianapolis market and the 1970's still wins.
>
> Was it perfect? No. But there was much more good than there
> was bad about it.
>

 

[Stench_Dog]

> > BTW... in the 7 years that I DJed with vinyl, I never had
> > a song skip or get stuck. With the computer, I've had dead
> > air because of crashes & glitches. Prior to that, I had
> > several carts jam or run out of phase.
> >
> heh heh...and don't forget that wonderful cue burn and the
> yahoo on the shift before you who yanked the cart before it
> was cued up--oh, yeah, and it was a 30-second spot that some
> other yahoo put on a 2 1/2 minute cart! and don't forget
> meter readings and splicing tape stuck to the bottom of your
> shoe...and searching for the piece of 1/4 inch tape that you
> inadvertantly dumped into the wastebasket! ahh, those were
> the days, indeed. Mike Warner
>
And then there was the time when working the hoot owl shift that a female called wanting to know if there was a bed in the station. If not, she was willing to bring a cot so she could get to know me. Reminded me of the movie, "Play Misty For Me".

 

[MetroTom]

Eric Garnes has a great, and by 'great' I mean 'spine-tingling', story about how WIFE-AM 1310 switched from playing music to flipping to News/Talk.

Go ahead and ask him about it sometime.

 

[IndyDan]

>> that a female called wanting to know if there was a bed in
> the station. If not, she was willing to bring a cot so she
> could get to know me. Reminded me of the movie, "Play Misty
> For Me".

LOL...nothing beats small town radio..I remember when working at WGRT/Danville back in the 80's, I stopped by the station one night to do a couple of spots and heard what I thought were screams. Sure enough, one of the sales guys had been in town drinking a LOT of beer, got brave, and decided he was going to climb the tower. He made it about 50 feet or so up, got scared, and froze. It took 3 of us to talk him down one step at a time. Then there were the insomiac 80-year old women that called when I was doing overnights at WTUX....sheesh. But this doesn't even begin to hold a candle to some of the phone calls I heard when I was visiting a buddy who was working at Q-95. Man, I could go on forever and it's great to hear of other similar experiences.

 

[skipspence]

> >> We had a bar across the back parking lot and alley at WRTB in Washington in the mid to late eighties... Our studio had a nice screen window we kept open in the warm months to save a little electricity and catch the southerly breeze... The female town drunk would always cross over from the bar, nightly to request "Neil Young-Heart Of Gold" through the window.... Sure enough, one night she barfed and sprewed the biggest hurl of vomit all over the screen and some of it worked through the screen and oooozed down to the lower pane and tray.....Guess what, I closed the window and we let the smell and vomit dry up and crust off for a couple of months...So we spent a little more on Air Conditioning those next two months before our cleaning lady was willing to disinfect and clean the human plaster off the outside and near inside of that window... For two months we just shook our heads with a "yes" when Betty would try and request Neil through the closed window... New Olympic sport??? Hurling???

 

[DowntownHazleton]

> It's a bit sterile everywhere, but, unlike those of us in
> the biz maybe the listeners don't see it that way. As for
> the above comment about Drake, can anyone imagine people
> actually listening to a cowbell ringing early 60s jock
> talking incessantly in 2006? Or even an early 70s screamer?
>
This thread is very interesting, especially since it's managed to stay on target and not degrade into name-calling and bashing. It's pretty fair to say that the days of the cowbell and screamers are gone, but I think what's being said here, is that there was a time when the jock was allowed some freedom to be creative. The cowbell in it's time was creative..attention getting. Yes, it's time has passed now, but what has replaced it in many stations is the consultant, who whether they are in-company our outside, come in, take away all forms of creativity, and leave the jock to read a liner. So whatever format sounds the same in Boise, Binghamton, Birmingham or Baltimore. That's NOT radio.
Also, the input of the owner who's down the hall and knows the people who work for him/her and cares at least a little about their welfare. A lot of years ago long before the Sconnix boys ever heard of WIBC, I worked for them in the little town of Oneonta, NY, at one of their first stations, WDOS. Every payday, Ted Nixon [the "Nix" of Sconnix"] came around and personally handed paychecks to every employee and thanked them for a good job. I can't remember the last time someone did that to me. It made me feel good about my job. I remembered that, and I now do the same to all my employees, even though I don't own the station and I work for a group.
The technology issue is another thing. What we have today is far superior to clunky old Spotmaster cart machines, and Shaffer 55 "cart crunchers" and rumbling QRK or Rek-O-Kut turntables. Thousand watt transmitters the size of 4 freezers now reduced to the size of a Dell computer. Who could possibly wish to keep running those cranky old machines?? Of course when your main operating computer rolls over and dies, you would sell your soul for a cart machine and a turntable!
There will always be good operators and bad operators. Good companies and dishonest ones. But I think what most people here seem to be wishing for was when radio was more of an art form and less of an audio version of fast food.

 

[gr8oldies]

Consultants only come in because a station needs more success than its getting. There certainly was a time of "creativity", but in "the good old days" there were stations getting number one ratings by playing automation reels with zero creativity. The listeners have to want to hear our creativity; often, sadly, they don't want to hear us talk as much as we want to talk to them.

 

[DowntownHazleton]

> Consultants only come in because a station needs more
> success than its getting. There certainly was a time of
> "creativity", but in "the good old days" there were stations
> getting number one ratings by playing automation reels with
> zero creativity. The listeners have to want to hear our
> creativity; often, sadly, they don't want to hear us talk as
> much as we want to talk to them.
>
That's a very good point. But it's also interesting to think about how much real pros like John Records Landecker, Cousin Brucie, Larry Lujack or Dan Ingraham could cram into just a few seconds. I don't entirely agree with your opinion about consultants. Too many groups have consultants for the CYA purpose, when they have perfectly good PD's at their locations.