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The Hymns Are Making A Comeback

Re: Coffee, concerts and church

Repentance is is our focus. Hair is not important, we have some that have long hair in our P&W team, some have no hair at all :). Strong topics as I mentioned are preached. My pastor is "offensive", he doesn't care who he offends. BUT There is nothing wrong with sitting with those who have repented after church service, having coffee, perhaps lunch and bonding with them.
Our building doesn't look like a church, we don't have stained glass windows or crosses everywhere. We do have a scripture on the wall.
We don't slam little kids for being little kids, if they run they run, of course we try to keep them safe but they are kids and they will wrestle each other and climb under chairs. We have an indoor playground for kids in our center and during the second half of our service the kids follow a frog to their area. We don't have fancy glass fixtures but we do have plenty of truth, love and young people live straight lives due to the teaching they receive. They are great employees because my pastor tells all of us to do everything as if your name is on it. Great advice.
We use our building as a fellowship building, a worship center and a center for teaching and for those in need. We bus in the needy from inner city areas and teach them and get them involved.
My pastor will not accept gossip and I can honestly say being involved in cell groups and activities that I have never heard anyone gossip or put down another person. We are taught to focus on the good and pure (in the Bible). We have joy and life in our church. We are the church and the building is the vehicle to connect with each other and those that are hurting. You can know the Bible front and back but if you don't put forth His principals and have relationships then it's pretty empty. My rant is over:)
 
> People need to be convicted of their sinful ways.

Sure....but by God!

It's not to be by a flying-by-the-seat-of-his-pants "preacher" who's reading the "today's menu" at the smorgasbord of sin in the hope of hitting "someone" at a particular service "'cause it's been so long" since real life-change of any kind happened in his building.



> We need more convicting, soul winning, Gospel Preaching,
> tell it like it is and Bible practicing Preachers in the
> pulpits.

Do you realize that every single one of the words you just used is a huge negative to anyone who isn't a blue-collar, raised-in-a-church, long-timer from the deep south??

No unbeliever wakes up in the morning, goes to bed at night, sits behind the wheel, or takes a walk and thinks, "Wow, life's just not what I want it to be for me. I know! I need to find me a church with a convicting, soul-winning, Gospel-preaching, tell-it-like-it-is, Bible-practicing preacher in the pulpit!"

I don't think any believer does that, either, for that matter....



> Last time I checked, the Church was not the place to get
> your entertainment thang on.

I suppose that might be valid if people merely passively sat there and did nothing, never personally actively participating in worship or actively listening; however, I don't think that's what believers are doing.

And what you call "entertainment" is simply a means of meeting people where they are, just as Christ did. It's speaking to them and listening to them in their language...which, in the case of this too-frequent discussion, is music.



> As I recall it, it's still the
> place where we are to promote the real Word of God and
> remind the people of their duties, as followers of the risen
> Lord Jesus Christ.

Wow...what a fascinating paradigm. Am I the only one who's noticed that every aspect of this post is about behavior?

"Convicting"..."preaching"..."practicing"..."setting the right example"..."be obedient"..."going in the wrong direction"..."remind the people"..."their duties"...

There's nary one bit of "reconciliation" or "relationship" to be found....very unfortunate.



> Thank God my home Church is promoting
> the meat and potatoes doctrines that are still in the Bible.

Of course...! It's the age-old conundrum...

Which came first -- the chicken or the egg?

You're there because that's who you are because that's where you're from because that's who you've become because you're there because that's where you've been....

You're in, and you're in something of a unique and narrow place. You gotta think like you're out if you're going to help effect change in those who are out.
 
Re: Coffee, concerts and church

Gosh, apparently Christ only died on the cross to outlaw the biological drives of humans. Jesus preached very little about sex, but for some evangelicals, it's only about prohibitions on sex without government licensure. We apparently know Godonly cares about whether or not a relationship has government sanction, not whether it has any love or quality to it. <P ID="signature">______________
"Your right to know supersedes your right to exist"..Gary Burbank</P>
 
Start screaming at me and see how quickly I walk out.<P ID="signature">______________
"Your right to know supersedes your right to exist"..Gary Burbank</P>
 
> > People need to be convicted of their sinful ways.
>
> Sure....but by God!
>
> > We need more convicting, soul winning, Gospel Preaching,
> > tell it like it is and Bible practicing Preachers in the
> > pulpits.
>
> Do you realize that every single one of the words you just
> used is a huge negative to anyone who isn't a blue-collar,
> raised-in-a-church, long-timer from the deep south??


I'm a "Long Timer" as You say, NOT from the deep south , not blue collar, wasnt raised in church and I believe people need to be convicted.with real Soul winning preaching used by God to convict..One thing I can not stand at time s is the generalizing..
 
Re: Coffee, concerts and church

> Gosh, apparently Christ only died on the cross to outlaw the
> biological drives of humans. Jesus preached very little
> about sex, but for some evangelicals, it's only about
> prohibitions on sex without government licensure. We
> apparently know Godonly cares about whether or not a
> relationship has government sanction, not whether it has any
> love or quality to it.


Gee, B, was your divorce that painful????
 
Re: Coffee, concerts and church

sounds like you found a good one..i still dont like the cell groups however..you must not be in my hometown..our MEGACHURCH is psycology based..sometimes i wonder if the pastor there is the antichrist himself!!
oh well good luck..rant off :)





> Repentance is is our focus. Hair is not important, we have
> some that have long hair in our P&W team, some have no hair
> at all :). Strong topics as I mentioned are preached. My
> pastor is "offensive", he doesn't care who he offends. BUT
> There is nothing wrong with sitting with those who have
> repented after church service, having coffee, perhaps lunch
> and bonding with them.
> Our building doesn't look like a church, we don't have
> stained glass windows or crosses everywhere. We do have a
> scripture on the wall.
> We don't slam little kids for being little kids, if they run
> they run, of course we try to keep them safe but they are
> kids and they will wrestle each other and climb under
> chairs. We have an indoor playground for kids in our center
> and during the second half of our service the kids follow a
> frog to their area. We don't have fancy glass fixtures but
> we do have plenty of truth, love and young people live
> straight lives due to the teaching they receive. They are
> great employees because my pastor tells all of us to do
> everything as if your name is on it. Great advice.
> We use our building as a fellowship building, a worship
> center and a center for teaching and for those in need. We
> bus in the needy from inner city areas and teach them and
> get them involved.
> My pastor will not accept gossip and I can honestly say
> being involved in cell groups and activities that I have
> never heard anyone gossip or put down another person. We are
> taught to focus on the good and pure (in the Bible). We have
> joy and life in our church. We are the church and the
> building is the vehicle to connect with each other and those
> that are hurting. You can know the Bible front and back but
> if you don't put forth His principals and have relationships
> then it's pretty empty. My rant is over:)
>
<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>
 
Re: Coffee, concerts and church

i still dont like the cell
> groups however"

We have paintball cell groups and gun cell groups along with photography cell groups etc. Any hobby or interest that God has put within your heart can be used as a place to honor Him and be with like minded people with the same interests. Yes, I do feel blessed to have found this church, of course nothing is perfect and if I looked hard I'm sure I could find flaws since we are all human. I'm learning though that sometimes my attitude creates the problems I might face in church.
 
Re: Coffee, concerts and church

Jesus preached very little
> > about sex,

What Bible are you reading?
 
"you are on very thin ice in
> criticizing a ministry where God is at work. Oh - and we
> grew 40% last year in membership."

Your church sounds like mine. That's cool! They just haven't been to a church like ours so they can't comprehend what is happening. A few churches with lousy doctrine can cast a bad light on the good ones.
>
 
Re: Coffee, concerts and church

> i still dont like the cell
> > groups however"
>
> We have paintball cell groups and gun cell groups along with
> photography cell groups etc. Any hobby or interest that God
> has put within your heart can be used as a place to honor
> Him and be with like minded people with the same interests.
> Yes, I do feel blessed to have found this church, of course
> nothing is perfect and if I looked hard I'm sure I could
> find flaws since we are all human. I'm learning though that
> sometimes my attitude creates the problems I might face in
> church.
>
theres that psycology thing again..are they teaching you things like negative thoughts are the problem of certain things?? are they telling you things like they are right ..and do as they say no matter if you feel its wrong?? this doesnt sound good. sounds like you are in a g12 church..g12 should be renamed s666..since its of the devil...<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>
 
> > People need to be convicted of their sinful ways.
>
> Sure....but by God!
>
> It's not to be by a flying-by-the-seat-of-his-pants
> "preacher" who's reading the "today's menu" at the
> smorgasbord of sin in the hope of hitting "someone" at a
> particular service "'cause it's been so long" since real
> life-change of any kind happened in his building.
>
>
>
> > We need more convicting, soul winning, Gospel Preaching,
> > tell it like it is and Bible practicing Preachers in the
> > pulpits.
>
> Do you realize that every single one of the words you just
> used is a huge negative to anyone who isn't a blue-collar,
> raised-in-a-church, long-timer from the deep south??
>
> No unbeliever wakes up in the morning, goes to bed at night,
> sits behind the wheel, or takes a walk and thinks, "Wow,
> life's just not what I want it to be for me. I know! I
> need to find me a church with a convicting, soul-winning,
> Gospel-preaching, tell-it-like-it-is, Bible-practicing
> preacher in the pulpit!"
>
> I don't think any believer does that, either, for that
> matter....
>
>
>
> > Last time I checked, the Church was not the place to get
> > your entertainment thang on.
>
> I suppose that might be valid if people merely passively sat
> there and did nothing, never personally actively
> participating in worship or actively listening; however, I
> don't think that's what believers are doing.
>
> And what you call "entertainment" is simply a means of
> meeting people where they are, just as Christ did. It's
> speaking to them and listening to them in their
> language...which, in the case of this too-frequent
> discussion, is music.
>
>
>
> > As I recall it, it's still the
> > place where we are to promote the real Word of God and
> > remind the people of their duties, as followers of the
> risen
> > Lord Jesus Christ.
>
> Wow...what a fascinating paradigm. Am I the only one who's
> noticed that every aspect of this post is about behavior?
>
> "Convicting"..."preaching"..."practicing"..."setting the
> right example"..."be obedient"..."going in the wrong
> direction"..."remind the people"..."their duties"...
>
> There's nary one bit of "reconciliation" or "relationship"
> to be found....very unfortunate.
>
>
>
> > Thank God my home Church is promoting
> > the meat and potatoes doctrines that are still in the
> Bible.
>
> Of course...! It's the age-old conundrum...
>
> Which came first -- the chicken or the egg?
>
> You're there because that's who you are because that's where
> you're from because that's who you've become because you're
> there because that's where you've been....
>
> You're in, and you're in something of a unique and narrow
> place. You gotta think like you're out if you're going to
> help effect change in those who are out.


just because there is as starbucks in a church doesnt mean the people coming in are there for god..it may mean they are there for the free coffee!!! how can the holy spirit convict someone at church and change them if the preacer is spewing out venom about money wealth and fame??? or psycology? which is what i see coming out of the seeker sensitive movement.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>
 
Re: Coffee, concerts and church

> theres that psycology thing again..are they teaching you
> things like negative thoughts are the problem of certain
> things?? are they telling you things like they are right
> ..and do as they say no matter if you feel its wrong?? this
> doesnt sound good. sounds like you are in a g12 church..g12
> should be renamed s666..since its of the devil..."

No - we learn from scripture. What I was referring to was sometimes I wake up on the wrong side of the bed and then I head to church in a grumpy mood wondering why no one talked to me or smiled at me, thinking I'm ok everyone else is nasty. I then pray and realize that I have sent out signals to others to stay away and when I return for evening church, I enter with a different frame of mind and those people I felt snubbed me run up to say hi and talk. We fall into that game from the enemy and sometimes leave churches because of it - we need to look within our own hearts first. "

"are they telling you things like they are right..and do as they say no matter if you feel its wrong??" My church does not do that. If it doesn't line up with scripture, my pastor will tell you not to fall for it.
>
 
Re: Coffee, concerts and church

thats good..glad to hear it.


> > theres that psycology thing again..are they teaching you
> > things like negative thoughts are the problem of certain
> > things?? are they telling you things like they are right
> > ..and do as they say no matter if you feel its wrong??
> this
> > doesnt sound good. sounds like you are in a g12
> church..g12
> > should be renamed s666..since its of the devil..."
>
> No - we learn from scripture. What I was referring to was
> sometimes I wake up on the wrong side of the bed and then I
> head to church in a grumpy mood wondering why no one talked
> to me or smiled at me, thinking I'm ok everyone else is
> nasty. I then pray and realize that I have sent out signals
> to others to stay away and when I return for evening church,
> I enter with a different frame of mind and those people I
> felt snubbed me run up to say hi and talk. We fall into that
> game from the enemy and sometimes leave churches because of
> it - we need to look within our own hearts first. "
>
> "are they telling you things like they are right..and do as
> they say no matter if you feel its wrong??" My church does
> not do that. If it doesn't line up with scripture, my pastor
> will tell you not to fall for it.
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>
 
"just because there is as starbucks in a church doesnt mean
> the people coming in are there for god..it may mean they are
> there for the free coffee!!! how can the holy spirit convict
> someone at church and change them if the preacer is spewing
> out venom about money wealth and fame??? or psycology?
> which is what i see coming out of the seeker sensitive
> movement."

Good grief, no one would come to church for just coffee. Do you believe the building of a church is so holy that you can't use the building for relationships; sip some coffee together, pray for some needs.
What preacher are you referring to that is spewing out venom about money wealth and fame? You are lumping all churches together because you are turned off by one.
We are all different and I am thankful that God is able to meet each individual's needs. We are the church not the building!
Jesus is probably thrilled that there is laughter and joy and love among His people and serious outreach, rather than dead faces and so called phoney Holiness, patting each other on the back, not growing in number - that's what I have experienced in some churches - not all -some.
Do you not realize that God is big enough that if someone does come in just for coffee that He can enter their hearts. There are foxhole Christians, infact a lot of times it takes a crisis before a serious commitment to God happens.

Let me ask you; Do you see people coming to the Lord during your services? In His word it says that healthy churches add to their numbers daily. He is touching hearts in many churches that have coffee machines. Coffee is the least of His worry.
 
theres the numbers game again..the megachurch philosopy..get as many in as possible..therfore making the megapreacher very megarich!! there is no proof these peopole actually get saved..they are mainly following the crowd. its the thing to do..no repentance..no salvation..

and yes before you tell me..i am the biggest sinner on this board..i admit it..i dont hide it..



> "just because there is as starbucks in a church doesnt mean
> > the people coming in are there for god..it may mean they
> are
> > there for the free coffee!!! how can the holy spirit
> convict
> > someone at church and change them if the preacer is
> spewing
> > out venom about money wealth and fame??? or psycology?
> > which is what i see coming out of the seeker sensitive
> > movement."
>
> Good grief, no one would come to church for just coffee. Do
> you believe the building of a church is so holy that you
> can't use the building for relationships; sip some coffee
> together, pray for some needs.
> What preacher are you referring to that is spewing out venom
> about money wealth and fame? You are lumping all churches
> together because you are turned off by one.
> We are all different and I am thankful that God is able to
> meet each individual's needs. We are the church not the
> building!
> Jesus is probably thrilled that there is laughter and joy
> and love among His people and serious outreach, rather than
> dead faces and so called phoney Holiness, patting each other
> on the back, not growing in number - that's what I have
> experienced in some churches - not all -some.
> Do you not realize that God is big enough that if someone
> does come in just for coffee that He can enter their hearts.
> There are foxhole Christians, infact a lot of times it takes
> a crisis before a serious commitment to God happens.
>
> Let me ask you; Do you see people coming to the Lord during
> your services? In His word it says that healthy churches add
> to their numbers daily. He is touching hearts in many
> churches that have coffee machines. Coffee is the least of
> His worry.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>
 
> theres the numbers game again..the megachurch philosopy..get
> as many in as possible..

I was giving you the quality of a healthy church mentioned in Acts. If you want to consider it the megachurch philosphy - take it up with Paul. He actually began the first megachurch.
 
Pretty sure it's me who's the biggest sinner on the board..heck I don't even go to "the True Church" and fire and brimstone preaching will assure that I'll never be back. If you never get folks in the door, they'll never hear or be exposed...and sometimes that may well be a gradual process, not going down the aisle in tears. One four-letter word I haven't seen in this entire thread is "love". Seems many of the posts are "e gotta stop those singles from having sex", and "we've especially gotta tell those homosexuals that they are in a special category of sin. I may be a sinner, but "THEY" are BIG sinners!" All law and no love.<P ID="signature">______________
"Your right to know supersedes your right to exist"..Gary Burbank</P>
 
> One four-letter word I haven't seen in this entire thread is "love".

My posts certainly had it implied...note the words "reconciliation" and "relationship."


> Seems many of the posts are "e gotta stop those singles from having sex",
> and "we've especially gotta tell those homosexuals that they
> are in a special category of sin. I may be a sinner, but
> "THEY" are BIG sinners!" All law and no love.

All law and no love? No, that's not the case at all.

But that's not even the real issue, is it?

Have you gone for the help I've encouraged you to seek? Please...please! As I've said, your hurts and issues are never going to be solved on any of the dozens or hundreds of boards you surf and post on. Get friends and help in the offline world, B. And stop trying to demand God fit your mold and mores; it's never going to work.


I really hate doing this. On one hand, I'm sincerely sorry and very apologetic; on the other, being repetitious, there are real issues here that do not belong on this or any other board. Please...stop...bringing...them! Real people in the real world, man, real people in the real world!

You want love, not law? Excellent! Me, too! And that's what I'm giving you..."tough" love, though it may be.
 
Re: Coffee, concerts and church

> ..the problem with these seeker sensitive churches is they
> get people in but dont preach repentance..they might OFFEND somone...

I have no idea what you're talking about; the absolute best presentation of the gospel I've ever heard was at Willow Creek in a Strobel message called "What Jesus Would Say To Peter Jennings."

By the way, "seeker-sensitive" simply means that the environment -- the physical surroundings, the language, the framing, the references, the program offerings, the media, and so on -- is constructed with the people and the date in mind and the idea that that church will NOT be an exclusive club with its own secret handshake and foreign language.

Something's gone wrong at some church you've checked out, and you have, for whatever reason, attributed that to and/or used it to define "seeker-sensitive" churches. I don't know why that is, but I could not disagree with your take more.
 
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