The Hymns Are Making A Comeback

[smashedcd]

Re: Coffee, concerts and church

i use to go to a really BIG church in baton rouge...more like a church of satan..than anything else..they are even telling people now they have to put in 6 hours a week there for free...working there doing chores..its like hitler is over the place!



> > ..the problem with these seeker sensitive churches is they
>
> > get people in but dont preach repentance..they might
> OFFEND somone...
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about; the absolute best
> presentation of the gospel I've ever heard was at Willow
> Creek in a Strobel message called "What Jesus Would Say To
> Peter Jennings."
>
> By the way, "seeker-sensitive" simply means that the
> environment -- the physical surroundings, the language, the
> framing, the references, the program offerings, the media,
> and so on -- is constructed with the people and the date in
> mind and the idea that that church will NOT be an exclusive
> club with its own secret handshake and foreign language.
>
> Something's gone wrong at some church you've checked out,
> and you have, for whatever reason, attributed that to and/or
> used it to define "seeker-sensitive" churches. I don't know
> why that is, but I could not disagree with your take more.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>

 

[gregdymon]

Re: Coffee, concerts and church

> i use to go to a really BIG church in baton rouge...more
> like a church of satan..than anything else..they are even
> telling people now they have to put in 6 hours a week there
> for free...working there doing chores..its like hitler is
> over the place!


OOOOOOOOOHHHHHH!!!! I KNOW WHAT CHURCH THAT IS!!!

Its actually in Baker, isn't it?

 

[gr8oldies]

Neutral, just so you know, I am quite plugged into "real life", even attending functions at an evangelical church...actually more than one. I wouldn't say I surf dozens, certainly not hundreds of boards. Probably about six on R-I on a regular basis, with some digressions. I will say that when someone gets ereally dogmatic with me, on a board or in "real life", I'm not real open.

It also wasn't me who took this thread off-topic. <P ID="signature">______________
"Your right to know supersedes your right to exist"..Gary Burbank</P>

 

[smashedcd]

Re: Coffee, concerts and church

> > i use to go to a really BIG church in baton rouge...more
> > like a church of satan..than anything else..they are even
> > telling people now they have to put in 6 hours a week
> there
> > for free...working there doing chores..its like hitler is
> > over the place!
>
>
> OOOOOOOOOHHHHHH!!!! I KNOW WHAT CHURCH THAT IS!!!
>
> Its actually in Baker, isn't it?
>
well yes..yes it is ..have you met the devil?<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>

 

[smashedcd]

> I agree with much of what you and smashedcd are saying.
> However, who is to say that JUST BECAUSE A CHURCH USES A
> CERTAIN "STYLE" OF MUSIC THEY AREN'T being led by a
> "convicting, soul winning, Gospel Preaching,



wait now i didnt say that..i prefer country gospel..i also listen to death metal..i just dont want to hear it in church..


tell it like it
> is Bible practicing Preacher in the pulpit"? And who is to
> say that hymn singing churches can't/aren't reaching lost
> people for God? Who is to say that mega churches can't reach
> the lost and disciple them?

my problem with megachurches is the power trips of the hundeds amybe thousands of so called pastors in these things. plus the watering down of scripture they use to lure people in. and the hollywood skits on the wall they use to demonstrate stuff..well actually i have a LOT of reasons i am against the megachurch..personal experience is one of those..

The practice of faith is a
> many-faceted issue. The problems we are seeing discussed
> here are extremely similar to arguments in the church during
> the first centuries. Jesus said to judge believers by the
> fruit they bear.... not by the styles, the translation, the
> songs, or the ministries... but by the fruit.


and that fruit is what i see as rotten at most megachurches or seeker sensitive churches. at least here in baton rouge anyway..


I have to
> restrain myself at times from saying "that church will NEVER
> reach their community" just because I don't personally like
> their approach to worship, ministry, discipleship or
> whatever.... all I can be responsible for is me and my
> relationship with God.
>
> > Great responses to this post. I am amazed, that many
> people
> > did respond. Concering the post above this one, you are
> so
> > right. People need to be convicted of their sinful ways.
>
> > Since so many Churches are now getting too far away from
> the
> > true Word of God, this nation is going down very fast. I
> am
> > very disturbed by this trend.
> >
> > We need more convicting, soul winning, Gospel Preaching,
> > tell it like it is and Bible practicing Preachers in the
> > pulpits. Unless the Preacher is setting the right example
>
> > and is Preaching the truths of God's Word, how do you
> expect
> > the members to be obedient to it? From what I am seeing,
> > this nation could use more Preachers, like I just stated,
> > since we are quickly going in the wrong direction.
> >
> > May God have mercy on this nation, for the sake of His
> real
> > followers.
> >
> > Last time I checked, the Church was not the place to get
> > your entertainment thang on. As I recall it, it's still
> the
> > place where we are to promote the real Word of God and
> > remind the people of their duties, as followers of the
> risen
> > Lord Jesus Christ. Thank God my home Church is promoting
> > the meat and potatoes doctrines that are still in the
> Bible.
> >
> >
> > RDP <
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>

 

[varedhead]

"my problem with megachurches is the power trips of the hundeds amybe thousands of so called pastors in these things. plus the watering down of scripture they use to lure people in. and the hollywood skits on the wall they use to demonstrate stuff..well actually i have a LOT of reasons i am against the megachurch..personal experience is one of those.. "

I'll relay that to Paul when I see him in heaven. He began the first Megachurch and while reading scripture today I read his defending of his position due to much criticism from others - some things never change. You are going to have, mentioned also in scripture, those who preach for God, those who preach for themselves. God has promised He will reveal all and He does. Don't lump it all together and I really would be careful.

 

[varedhead]

Re: The Hymns Are Making A Comeback re: neutral Observer

"And what you call "entertainment" is simply a means of meeting people where they are, just as Christ did. It's speaking to them and listening to them in their language...which, in the case of this too-frequent discussion, is music."

Preach it brother (if you are a brother(male))! Preach it anyway!

 

[smashedcd]

> "my problem with megachurches is the power trips of the
> hundeds amybe thousands of so called pastors in these
> things. plus the watering down of scripture they use to lure
> people in. and the hollywood skits on the wall they use to
> demonstrate stuff..well actually i have a LOT of reasons i
> am against the megachurch..personal experience is one of
> those.. "
>
> I'll relay that to Paul when I see him in heaven. He began
> the first Megachurch and while reading scripture today I
> read his defending of his position due to much criticism
> from others - some things never change. You are going to
> have, mentioned also in scripture, those who preach for God,
> those who preach for themselves. God has promised He will
> reveal all and He does. Don't lump it all together and I
> really would be careful.
>
why be carful..i mentoned no names..i can judge actions..just not someones salvation..<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>

 

[varedhead]

> "why be carful..i mentoned no names..i can judge
> actions..just not someones salvation.."

You lumped all large congregations as watering down scripture. Stay away from the few you don't like or feel are off course and leave the ones you know nothing about alone. Don't make a blanket statement about everyone.
>

 

[neutral_observer]

> wait now i didnt say that..i prefer country gospel..i also
> listen to death metal..i just dont want to hear it in
> church..

You have a connection in your brain between "church" and "southern gospel." Odds are close to 100% you're telling us how you grew up. It's akin to the "people don't know what they like; they like what they know" idea. People associate what they were exposed to in their youth with how church "should" be.

Many years ago, my church commissioned a survey of the people in a 10-mile radius around the church, and, having a research background, I was kept in the loop concerning its fielding and reporting (I was nowhere near 100% comfortable with it, but it was still a very reasonably well done survey). The result? Predictable. With three of the biggest cells being occasionally-attending Catholics, non-attending Catholics, and regularly-attending Catholics and another large cell being formerly-rural people who came to the city to find work, the way church "should" be came back sounding very traditional and formal. It was something of a waste -- not having any idea of what else existed, what was possible, or what they might really like, people answered with what they knew from when they were young. However, they had no interest in what they knew from their youth. Therefore, the survey produced no actionable results in any direction, and we successfully went with what we were already thinking to do.



> my problem with megachurches is the power trips of the
> hundeds amybe thousands of so called pastors in these
> things.

I just can't help but think of that disclaimer you see in commercials -- "Unique result; your results may vary." I just haven't seen "power trips." Of course, I guess it depends on how you define that, doesn't it? In my church, bringing in a new senior pastor resulted in almost 100% turnover of staff. It created a lot of stir at the time, but, looking back, you realize that one person wasn't really capable of working at that level, one had no interest in adopting the style the church was adopting, one no longer fit what the area had become, and one was openly working against the new senior pastor and creating a division. If bringing in competent people who fit the area and the style that appeals to the congregation and promoting unity by removing a divisive person is a "power trip," then I guess I have no problem with "power trips."

Or, perhaps, you confuse "strong leadership" and "power trip."

Plus, you know, you're in a weird area of the country. I'm guessing you've personally seen weird things. Please see them as personal experiences, not the reality of the rest of us throughout the country.



> plus the watering down of scripture they use to lure
> people in.

Again, probably your personal experience. But, by the way, how do you "water down" scripture?? It is what it is!



> ...and the hollywood skits on the wall they use to demonstrate stuff..

Skits on a wall?? Hollywood?? What in the world....???



> ...well actually i have a LOT of reasons i am against the megachurch..

...that you have seen!



> ...personal experience is one of those..

Ah...now you admit it!



> and that fruit is what i see as rotten at most megachurches
> or seeker sensitive churches.

Wow...wild. I see that it's the "seeker-sensitive" churches that are engaging the culture, meeting people where they are, and working with God in creating real life-change.

 

[smashedcd]

> > wait now i didnt say that..i prefer country gospel..i also
>
> > listen to death metal..i just dont want to hear it in
> > church..
>

the church i grew up in had a piano and organ..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

in my youth i listened exclusibly to metal..nothing else..i just dont like bubble gum praise music that has a TARGET AUDIENCE like the local radio station..i dont get that..



> You have a connection in your brain between "church" and
> "southern gospel." Odds are close to 100% you're telling us
> how you grew up. It's akin to the "people don't know what
> they like; they like what they know" idea. People associate
> what they were exposed to in their youth with how church
> "should" be.
>
> Many years ago, my church commissioned a survey of the
> people in a 10-mile radius around the church, and, having a
> research background, I was kept in the loop concerning its
> fielding and reporting (I was nowhere near 100% comfortable
> with it, but it was still a very reasonably well done
> survey). The result? Predictable. With three of the
> biggest cells being occasionally-attending Catholics,
> non-attending Catholics, and regularly-attending Catholics,
> the way church "should" be came back sounding very
> traditional and formal. It was something of a waste -- not
> having any idea of what else existed, what was possible, or
> what they might really like, people answered with what they
> knew from when they were young. However, they had no
> interest in what they knew from their youth. Therefore, the
> survey produced no actionable results in any direction, and
> we successfully went with what we were already thinking to
> do.
>
>
>
> > my problem with megachurches is the power trips of the
> > hundeds amybe thousands of so called pastors in these
> > things.
>
> I just can't help but think of that disclaimer you see in
> commercials -- "Unique result; your results may vary." I
> just haven't seen "power trips." Of course, I guess it
> depends on how you define that, doesn't it? In my church,
> bringing in a new senior pastor resulted in alomst 100%
> turnover of staff. It created a lot of stir at the time,
> but, looking back, you realize that one person wasn't really
> capable of working at that level, one had no interest in
> adopting the style the church was adopting, one no longer
> fit what the area had become, and one was openly working
> against the new senior pastor and creating a division. If
> bringing in competent people who fit the area and the style
> that appeals to the congregation and promoting unity by
> removing a divisive person is a "power trip," then I'm all
> for "power trips."
>
> Or, perhaps, you confuse "strong leadership" and "power
> trip."
>
> Plus, you know, you're in a weird area of the country. I'm
> guessing you've personally seen weird things. Please see
> them as personal experiences, not the reality of the rest of
> us throughout the country.
>
>
>
> > plus the watering down of scripture they use to lure
> > people in.
>
> Again, probably your personal experience. But, by the way,
> how do you "water down" scripture?? It is what it is!
>
>
>
> > ...and the hollywood skits on the wall they use to
> demonstrate stuff..
>
> Skits on a wall?? Hollywood?? What in the world....???
>
>
>
> > ...well actually i have a LOT of reasons i am against the
> megachurch..
>
> ...that you have seen!
>
>
>
> > ...personal experience is one of those..
>
> Ah...now you admit it!
>
>
>
> > and that fruit is what i see as rotten at most
> megachurches
> > or seeker sensitive churches.
>
> Wow...wild. I see that it's the "seeker-sensitive" churches
> that are engaging the culture, meeting people where they
> are, and working with God in creating real life-change.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>

 

[gr8oldies]

Smashed, here's the deal. A seeker-sensitive church may have people who attend because they have children now and think church might be a good thing. Or tghey're single and like activities, classes about relationships, whatever, or like the coffee for all I know. They may come for weeks, months, even years, and through the process of building friendships and relationships, may actually "get saved" if that's the terminology you prefer. Contrast that with the approach you seem to prefer..get them in the door, have a preacher start yelling, screaming, belittling and berating those in the chairs about what dirty, rotten sinners they are and demanding that they change all of their religious, political and social beliefs RIGHT NOW. In the first case scenario, you have an those "seekers" as an audience for potentially years...and they may well still be "sinning" until they "see the light" with relationships that have been built over time. The other approach guarantees those "sinners" will never come back to your or any other church.<P ID="signature">______________
"Your right to know supersedes your right to exist"..Gary Burbank</P>

 

[varedhead]

"Contrast that with the approach you
> seem to prefer..get them in the door, have a preacher start
> yelling, screaming, belittling and berating those in the
> chairs about what dirty, rotten sinners they are and
> demanding that they change all of their religious, political
> and social beliefs RIGHT NOW. In the first case scenario,
> you have an those "seekers" as an audience for potentially
> years...and they may well still be "sinning" until they "see
> the light" with relationships that have been built over
> time. The other approach guarantees those "sinners" will
> never come back to your or any other church."

I went to those hell fire and brimstone churches when I was child, spent many years trying to be perfect(of course no one is)and failing. I'll throw in the nightmares due to that type of preaching. Hell should be preached but preaching only that with no instructions of why and how not to, creates a guilt ridden, stressful life which distracts from having a healthy relationship with God. It took me a long time to understand that love of God rather than the unatural fear of God (not to be confused with reverence of God). Can you communicate with someone you fear? No. True preaching of God's love with hell as the end result without Him is what convicts and brings those to God.
I don't care how many come in for coffee, fellowship, entertainment, meet the opposite sex - whatever - the truth will change them and lead them into a relationship with the Lord. I'll take them if it's just for the free coffee and I'll take them with the spiked hair, piercings everywhere, tattoos. many churches don't know what to do with them any way. I'll take them to my church. Todd Agnew has a great new song "My Jesus". They can dirty the carpet at my church.

 

[smashedcd]

first off i never said a preacher had to yell about sin..or about homosexulaity or any other sin..but he needs to preach the word. what good is a pcycology church? second..you guys do know i have long hair..you do know i listen to METAL!! my freinds have tattoos..my brother in law is covered in them..i dont judge people for how they look..heck..you should see me



> "Contrast that with the approach you
> > seem to prefer..get them in the door, have a preacher
> start
> > yelling, screaming, belittling and berating those in the
> > chairs about what dirty, rotten sinners they are and
> > demanding that they change all of their religious,
> political
> > and social beliefs RIGHT NOW. In the first case scenario,
> > you have an those "seekers" as an audience for potentially
>
> > years...and they may well still be "sinning" until they
> "see
> > the light" with relationships that have been built over
> > time. The other approach guarantees those "sinners" will
> > never come back to your or any other church."
>
> I went to those hell fire and brimstone churches when I was
> child, spent many years trying to be perfect(of course no
> one is)and failing. I'll throw in the nightmares due to that
> type of preaching. Hell should be preached but preaching
> only that with no instructions of why and how not to,
> creates a guilt ridden, stressful life which distracts from
> having a healthy relationship with God. It took me a long
> time to understand that love of God rather than the unatural
> fear of God (not to be confused with reverence of God). Can
> you communicate with someone you fear? No. True preaching of
> God's love with hell as the end result without Him is what
> convicts and brings those to God.
> I don't care how many come in for coffee, fellowship,
> entertainment, meet the opposite sex - whatever - the truth
> will change them and lead them into a relationship with the
> Lord. I'll take them if it's just for the free coffee and
> I'll take them with the spiked hair, piercings everywhere,
> tattoos. many churches don't know what to do with them any
> way. I'll take them to my church. Todd Agnew has a great new
> song "My Jesus". They can dirty the carpet at my church.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>

 

[MorningLight]

> Maybe Morning Light was right after all. Traditional Gospel
> isn't dead. It's now being embraced by many and is in huge
> demand. I find it amazing that when many Churches want to
> remove the classic songs, from their roster, they seem to
> find their way back into these places that took them away.
>
> RDP <

Wow! Someone actually remembered me... and in a positive light! I'm touched!
(Actually, I *AM* a little "touched", but that's beside the point.)

OK, to get this back ON TOPIC...

The Hymns are, indeed, timeless. One of the things I really like is when an artist or group adds a tasteful, "modern flavor" to them. I gobble those up... and so do our listeners.

Whoever said that Hymns had to be boring dirges? Certainly not I! I just don't want screeching guitars, overdriven distortion, or overpowering instruments/beats in the music. That's not our format. I like to describe it as "Energetic enough to wake you up, but not give you a headache!"

Willie...
http://www.mymorninglight.org