The Misguided Allure of Deep Tracks

[davideduardo]

Torture?? Come on......The songs are around a half-century old. Hearing modern rap is torture.

That's your taste, not that of large consumer groups. Obviously, there are fewer people who want to hear the songs you like than ones who want to hear current rhythmic and hip-hop songs.

Even I would rather hear Bad Bunny than Debby Boone and Daddy Yankee over Barry Manilow. But that is my taste, and I don't expect everything I like to be on any one radio station.

 

[Tibbs4]

Long stop sets are a tune out. And so are bad songs. But for me, hearing someone after another blabber about products I could care less about is a station changer. And when I mean bad songs, I'm referring to genres I have zero interest in or songs I've heard 30 times in 60 days! Most "bad" songs the industry shuns are "oh wow's" for me and I stay interested.

Oldies - with all due respect, you are just simply NOT a radio person, circa 2019. There is no way a MASS MEDIA station will ever give you exactly what you are looking for. You don't support or have interest in the sponsors. Which, is a large percentage of listeners in reality. It is but a small, but loyal group, that does buy the brands being advertised. You have a huge expectation that every song should only fit your taste and tune out often. NOTE: There is nothing wrong with that mindset, so don't take me wrong on here, radio folks deal with it every day. It's what has basically become a more evolving pattern of today. I do a lot of events with two distinct ages and demographics. Those over 40-ish and above into their 70's still accept radio as it is because, well, I guess they/we are generally conditioned to listen to someone else's programming. Those under 25, which I also work with quite a bit, do NOT listen to radio much at all and your points of contention are part of the reason. It's also a much more "it's all about me" generation these days. It's fun to brag about finding cool music that no else has ever heard. Of course, "we" didn't have all the options back in our day, so it would be interesting to see what would have happened in the 60's and 70's if we did.

What sources of listening to music do appeal to you these days? And Eduardo (yep, no David tonight) - you still light up our lives even if your name isn't Lola, even if we don't a clue who Bunny Daddy whatever is.

 

[davideduardo]

What sources of listening to music do appeal to you these days? And Eduardo (yep, no David tonight) - you still light up our lives even if your name isn't Lola, even if we don't a clue who Bunny Daddy whatever is.

Ah, but Lola is not a showgirl but my dog and sidekick for the www.americanradiohistory.com website!

Bad Bunny is a Trap artist. Trap is a rap-like (get it?) offshoot of reggaetón, and is more like American hip-hop- Bad Bunny is one of the top sellers in the genre, from Chile to LA.

 

[tbolt909]

Oldies - with all due respect, you are just simply NOT a radio person, circa 2019. There is no way a MASS MEDIA station will ever give you exactly what you are looking for. You don't support or have interest in the sponsors. Which, is a large percentage of listeners in reality. It is but a small, but loyal group, that does buy the brands being advertised. You have a huge expectation that every song should only fit your taste and tune out often. NOTE: There is nothing wrong with that mindset, so don't take me wrong on here, radio folks deal with it every day. It's what has basically become a more evolving pattern of today. I do a lot of events with two distinct ages and demographics. Those over 40-ish and above into their 70's still accept radio as it is because, well, I guess they/we are generally conditioned to listen to someone else's programming. Those under 25, which I also work with quite a bit, do NOT listen to radio much at all and your points of contention are part of the reason. It's also a much more "it's all about me" generation these days. It's fun to brag about finding cool music that no else has ever heard. Of course, "we" didn't have all the options back in our day, so it would be interesting to see what would have happened in the 60's and 70's if we did.

What sources of listening to music do appeal to you these days? And Eduardo (yep, no David tonight) - you still light up our lives even if your name isn't Lola, even if we don't a clue who Bunny Daddy whatever is.

Music fans in the 60s and 70s had record stores to discover cool music that Radio wasn't playing. Smaller venue clubs also featured new artists. The whole counterculture was about discovery and experimentation. There was no internet, but there was actual human interaction...

 

[TheBigA]

Music fans in the 60s and 70s had record stores to discover cool music that Radio wasn't playing.

Not sure about that. The "listening booth" concept in record stores died out early in the 60s.

There was however a lot of peer to peer music discovery in high school and college.

 

[KeithE4]

Not sure about that. The "listening booth" concept in record stores died out early in the 60s.

There was however a lot of peer to peer music discovery in high school and college.

Growing up in a college town (Bloomington, IN), not only did our record stores play a lot of new albums that came out, just for the asking, but some of the students who came to Indiana University from elsewhere, especially NY or LA, brought albums with them that we didn't get in our stores yet. I first heard Jimi Hendrix in a record store.

Once WNAP went on the air in 1968, playing a lot of music the big Top 40 stations in Indy and Chicago wouldn't play, that started to change. But prior to that, new, not-exactly-commercial music was heard in places not called radio.

 

[tbolt909]

Not sure about that. The "listening booth" concept in record stores died out early in the 60s.

There was however a lot of peer to peer music discovery in high school and college.

People went to record stores to browse and talk about music with staff & other record buyers. A lot of music discovery happened there, just maybe not for you...

 

[TheBigA]

Once WNAP went on the air in 1968, playing a lot of music the big Top 40 stations in Indy and Chicago wouldn't play, that started to change. But prior to that, new, not-exactly-commercial music was heard in places not called radio.

College radio was big in the 60s & 70s. There was something called the Intercollegiate Broadcasting System that held an annual convention every year. New artists and labels targeted that convention for their upcoming acts.

 

[KeithE4]

College radio was big in the 60s & 70s. There was something called the Intercollegiate Broadcasting System that held an annual convention every year. New artists and labels targeted that convention for their upcoming acts.

WNAP was not a college station. It was previously, and now is again WIBC-FM. It was the only station in central Indiana in the late '60s and early '70s that would play the dreaded deep cuts, new music, blues, and some country rock -- while playing the Top 40 (actually 30, in their case) at the same time, moreso during the day.

Indiana University did have a campus station, WIUS 620, but it was carrier current at the time, and strictly a Top 40 station. It's now WIUX-LP. Too bad it couldn't normally be heard outside of residence calls and other campus buildings because it was a better sounding Top 40 station than anything of that type coming out of Indy at the time (WIFE, and later WNDE & WXLW). But they never did any album rock from what I remember.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Bad Bunny is a Trap artist. Trap is a rap-like (get it?) offshoot of reggaetón, and is more like American hip-hop- Bad Bunny is one of the top sellers in the genre, from Chile to LA.

I agree with oldies76 and am probably even more conservative in my taste.

I did watch part of the American Music Awards and do know when Bad Bunny was introduced, I heard music I liked. But it was more Latin jazz than rap. Cardi B also performed on the song and she wasn't bad, which was surprising.

 

[macattack]

Reading this reminded me of something I read once, it may even be from here. I apologize if I'm remembering this wrong if it is from here.

It involved a listener calling in to the DJ or music director at a classic rock station. She wanted to hear more hits because they reminded her of the only time she was happy. She didn't want to hear "YYZ" or "Time Stand Still" by Rush, she wanted more "Tom Sawyer". She didn't want to hear "Point of Know Return", she wanted "Carry On Wayward Son" or "Dust in the Wind". Etc.

This is why deep tracks don't have the allure many people assume they do. For every one of us who wants to hear something like "Negative Creep" by Nirvana or "Atomic Punk" by Van Halen, there's three or four other people who want to hear "Smells Like Teen Spirit" or "Jump" for the umpteenth time.

A random album cut late at night is still doable but that's when nobody is listening to the station. You definitely can't sneak them into the daytime list like you used to, that much is certain.

 

[TheBigA]

It involved a listener calling in to the DJ or music director at a classic rock station. She wanted to hear more hits because they reminded her of the only time she was happy.

That's great. That's why I say radio is the free sample. It gets you interested. It gets you hooked. The next step is yours. Where you take it, what you do with it, is up to you. For some people, that one moment is the thing that gets them to pick up an instrument, so they can feel that experience any time they want. For others, it gets them into collecting. Going to swap meets, looking for rare vinyl. For others, it gets them into fan groups and group chats. I see them on social media. They're fans of a band or an artist, and they travel around the country to see that artist and socialize with fellow fans.

There are lots of ways for people to take an active role in the music that makes them feel good. All that comes from one small moment with a song on a radio. For most people, music isn't that important. It's just something on in the background. But for a few, it's more, and for them, the real fun happens beyond the radio. All radio can do is get you started. The rest is up to you.

 

[davideduardo]

Reading this reminded me of something I read once, it may even be from here. I apologize if I'm remembering this wrong if it is from here.

It involved a listener calling in to the DJ or music director at a classic rock station. She wanted to hear more hits because they reminded her of the only time she was happy. She didn't want to hear "YYZ" or "Time Stand Still" by Rush, she wanted more "Tom Sawyer". She didn't want to hear "Point of Know Return", she wanted "Carry On Wayward Son" or "Dust in the Wind". Etc.

I believe you are referring to my story about a woman I interviewed in a perceptual research project in the late 90's for WBIG in DC, an oldies station.

The lady worked for the DoJ and spent the day in a basement storage facility filing and retrieving case files. She was single and had a cat. The job was boring, tedious and unfulfilling.

So when she listened to WBIG at her desk or in her car, she wanted to hear the songs that reminded her of the time when she was happy, which was when she was in High School and Middle School. She wanted to hear the songs she could sing along with, because that gave her pleasure.

She had no interest in songs she did not know, did not remember or did not have big memories attached to. And she did not want to hear again the songs that she did not ever like from those times, so the station had better eliminate those songs. When asked how often she wanted to hear her big favorites, she said, "every day".

 

[macattack]

I believe you are referring to my story about a woman I interviewed in a perceptual research project in the late 90's for WBIG in DC, an oldies station.

The lady worked for the DoJ and spent the day in a basement storage facility filing and retrieving case files. She was single and had a cat. The job was boring, tedious and unfulfilling.

So when she listened to WBIG at her desk or in her car, she wanted to hear the songs that reminded her of the time when she was happy, which was when she was in High School and Middle School. She wanted to hear the songs she could sing along with, because that gave her pleasure.

She had no interest in songs she did not know, did not remember or did not have big memories attached to. And she did not want to hear again the songs that she did not ever like from those times, so the station had better eliminate those songs. When asked how often she wanted to hear her big favorites, she said, "every day".

Thank you for correcting the record, sir.

BTW, the WBIG call letters have actually wound up by where I live in Illinois, in case you were curious or didn't know. They're used for an AM sports/talk channel now.

 

[michael hagerty]

Different format, and I've told the story on this site before, but in a different thread---10-12 years ago in Phoenix, a local FM tried a standards format, but they stretched---played not just the hits, but the great recordings that weren't singles. It was all about taste and it was beyond delicious.

I was in my late 40s at the time, and having heard that music while growing up (it was what my parents enjoyed), I thought it was tremendous. I was working for a local TV station at the time and the GM and I took some clients to lunch at Capital Grille. The GM was in his early 60s and the clients were all between 55 and 65, and financially comfortable professionals. The target demo.

The GM brought up this FM in conversation (it had debuted within the past month) and the response was unanimous---"I like it, but why all the album cuts?" "Why should I have to listen to Sinatra's ninth best record when they could be playing one of his three biggest hits?" "I want to remember---so why are they playing songs I don't remember?"

As with their choice of Capital Grille for lunch, they wanted comfort food when they pressed that button.

Ultimately, very few people ever set a button---the station changed format within a year.

 

[CTListener]

Different format, and I've told the story on this site before, but in a different thread---10-12 years ago in Phoenix, a local FM tried a standards format, but they stretched---played not just the hits, but the great recordings that weren't singles. It was all about taste and it was beyond delicious.

I was in my late 40s at the time, and having heard that music while growing up (it was what my parents enjoyed), I thought it was tremendous. I was working for a local TV station at the time and the GM and I took some clients to lunch at Capital Grille. The GM was in his early 60s and the clients were all between 55 and 65, and financially comfortable professionals. The target demo.

The GM brought up this FM in conversation (it had debuted within the past month) and the response was unanimous---"I like it, but why all the album cuts?" "Why should I have to listen to Sinatra's ninth best record when they could be playing one of his three biggest hits?" "I want to remember---so why are they playing songs I don't remember?"

I feel the same way when I listen to one of the single-artist channels on Sirius XM. I'm a big fan of the Beatles and Bruce Springsteen, and know most of their songs, but most of the ones I truly love are the ones most of their fans, diehard or casual, love. When Sirius acquired XM and brought E Street Radio to the combined service, I thought I'd be in heaven. Instead, I was hearing stuff from "Ghost of Tom Joad" and "The Rising" that I found OK but forgettable and my fourth- and fifth-most preferred tracks from other albums. I wound up listening less and less, and now I only punch up the channel if I see that "Badlands" or "Prove It All Night" or "Cover Me" or one of a couple of dozen other songs is playing.

I went through the same thing with the Beatles Channel when it was introduced about a year or so ago. There, the problem is made even worse by the inclusion of deeper solo tracks, covers of Beatles songs, and songs by other artists who influenced the Beatles or whom the Beatles influenced. To me, it's OK to play a non-hit like "And Your Bird Can Sing" or "Rain," but why am I hearing Ringo Starr's All-Star Band, Oasis and Carl Perkins? Now, it's an occasional listen, and that's only because i can't find Beatles tunes on YouTube the way I can Springsteen's.

I'm sure I'm not alone in my ultimate disappointment with single-artist channels, but they are proliferating on satellite. I guess because many of them (maybe all; I don't know the financials behind the Beatles and Bruce channels) are paid for by the artists and/or their labels, it's fine with the SXM execs that only a small subset of diehard fans is actually listening to those channels, since the money SXM pockets for carrying them whether anyone is listening or not is the thing that matters.

 

[TheBigA]

I guess because many of them (maybe all; I don't know the financials behind the Beatles and Bruce channels) are paid for by the artists and/or their labels, it's fine with the SXM execs that only a small subset of diehard fans is actually listening to those channels, since the money SXM pockets for carrying them whether anyone is listening or not is the thing that matters.

Those channels are also typically curated by someone connected to the artist, saving Sirius from that cost, and the channel is used for promotions connected to the artist. The Garth Channel did a live concert at the Ryman for Sirius, and listeners were able to win free tickets.

 

[CTListener]

Those channels are also typically curated by someone connected to the artist, saving Sirius from that cost, and the channel is used for promotions connected to the artist. The Garth Channel did a live concert at the Ryman for Sirius, and listeners were able to win free tickets.

I assume SXM also saves on royalties and can avoid the DMCA limits on songs by any one artist/from any one album per hour by doing this, right?

 

[TheBigA]

I assume SXM also saves on royalties and can avoid the DMCA limits on songs by any one artist/from any one album per hour by doing this, right?

Don't know if anyone waives their royalties, but they do sign waivers to avoid those limits.

 

[CTListener]

Don't know if anyone waives their royalties, but they do sign waivers to avoid those limits.

So if, say, Billy Joel's management/label buys a channel for a month or so to hype the artist's new album or tour, SiriusXM has to turn around and pay the songwriter (Joel himself) for every song played on this bought-and-paid-for channel?