The Music & State of Alternative 2023

[macattack]

I felt that the start of the calendar year would be the right time to make a new thread to discuss Alternative in 2023, especially since the threads seeing activity date from 2020 or 2021 and have become rather long. So why not start fresh at the beginning of the new year to discuss the format, key stations, the business, and the music being played? Hopefully this will allow for a wide range of topics to be discussed as well.

I'll start things off by listing the first Alternative songs to go for adds this year and invite those who are interested to check them out.

Goes for Alternative adds on 01/17:

 

[macattack]

Serviced to Alternative radio this week (no adds date given):

 

[macattack]

I think this is going to be a key year for Alternative. Usually the third year of the decade defines the format for the remainder of the decade and can be chaotic. 1993, 2003, and 2013 were all wild years in terms of the music and also how the format and stations developed and responded to changes in the music. 1983 was also a wild year as it became apparent that Alternative was emerging as a format as more stations started following in KROQ’s footsteps.

Right now, though, it feels like the format is increasingly leaning towards KPNT’s formula of mixing Active Rock with standard Alternative. A lot of heavier bands are lurking in the bottom half of the Alt chart. Heavy Alt golds from the 2000’s are also returning to prominence on several playlists. Are we experiencing a wave of 00’s nostalgia? Or are they just chasing KPNT in the hopes of getting similar ratings?

 

[macattack]

iHeart is apparently going to try to replicate the success of “Running Up That Hill” by pushing “Never Let Me Down Again” by Depeche Mode hard this week. Keep an eye on it.

The song saw a noticeable streaming uptick after featuring on the first episode of The Last Of Us.

 

[tall_guy1]

I think alternative did well pre 2017 because indie rock was big at the time (mumford and sons, foster the people, ect.) The "pop turn" I think chased away a lot of those listeners at the end of the decade.

 

[macattack]

“Lost”, a cut track from the Linkin Park album Meteora, is tearing up the Alt chart right now. It may be the biggest rock hit since “Beggin’” at the rate it’s charging and it seems likely to debut a decent way up the Hot 100.

(Depending on whether you consider “Snap” by Rosa Linn a rock song or not).

 

[Sundrowned]

I think alternative did well pre 2017 because indie rock was big at the time (mumford and sons, foster the people, ect.) The "pop turn" I think chased away a lot of those listeners at the end of the decade.

Im a bit confused by your statement because to me those bands you mentioned are way more pop than rock and I would include them in the pop turn. I dont see a huge different between pre and post 2017 mainstream alternative. Its all "indie pop" to me and barely any "rock" at all. If your music sounds like it was made solely to be played in a commercial then its pop. Indie rock isnt really like that. Its more abrasive. More recently the charts have more proper indie rock in them but for the past decade I barely heard any. Wikpedia even lists indie pop ahead of indie rock describing Foster the People. Indie pop is jingle music basically. Indie rock isnt, its rock.

 

[JD36108]

This week i've added a few i think are worthy of adding

Samantha Fish ft. Jesse Dayton - Deathwish : this should be a must add if you loves bluesey/rockabilly riffs

Portugal. The Man - Dummy

Jelly Roll - Need a favor

Michigander - superglue

Felly - Free Love

 

[The New Chico]

iHeart is apparently going to try to replicate the success of “Running Up That Hill” by pushing “Never Let Me Down Again” by Depeche Mode hard this week. Keep an eye on it.

The song saw a noticeable streaming uptick after featuring on the first episode of The Last Of Us.

I see Depeche Mode has a new album coming out and have released the first single "Ghosts Again" this week. Likely iHeart was pushing the previous song last month as a prequel. Seems to be done a lot with "classic" acts and make sense.

 

[macattack]

Mike Shinoda’s “In My Head” looks like a potentially huge Alt record. Keep an eye on it.

 

[PrezSquid]

Im a bit confused by your statement because to me those bands you mentioned are way more pop than rock and I would include them in the pop turn. I dont see a huge different between pre and post 2017 mainstream alternative. Its all "indie pop" to me and barely any "rock" at all. If your music sounds like it was made solely to be played in a commercial then its pop. Indie rock isnt really like that. Its more abrasive. More recently the charts have more proper indie rock in them but for the past decade I barely heard any. Wikpedia even lists indie pop ahead of indie rock describing Foster the People. Indie pop is jingle music basically. Indie rock isnt, its rock.

It still fits alternative though, if you think alternative was only ROCK, then boy, you might have to get rid of all that 80s synthpop and top 40 hits from the rock bands.

 

[macattack]

It still fits alternative though, if you think alternative was only ROCK, then boy, you might have to get rid of all that 80s synthpop and top 40 hits from the rock bands.

The thing about alternative it's that it's basically bizarro top 40 with a different core sound to the format and "genre". The core of Alternative is indie rock (whatever form indie rock is in at the time). Top 40/CHR has a different core sound that also fluctuates with the times but always seems to have a dance influence.

Alternative can and has had crossovers from Pop and Rhythmic in addition to the usual Active Rock and Triple A crossovers. Hell, Post Malone, a Pop/Rhythmic mainstay, has crossed to Alternative right now as his single "Chemical" is in the top 30 as I write this.

The mistake Alternative made in the late-10's was trying to abandon the core sound in favor of off-kilter pop or "alternative pop", which fizzled out last year, though a couple of remnants like K.Flay's "Raw Raw" still are making the rounds. Indie pop is still going at a pretty decent clip, though, but indie pop has always had a bit of a rock twinge to it.

 

[davideduardo]

The mistake Alternative made in the late-10's was trying to abandon the core sound in favor of off-kilter pop or "alternative pop",...

"Alternative" is not a being, an entity, that makes mistakes. "Alternative" is a vague genre of music that suffers from ups and downs and fragmentation. Nobody is there as a supreme being guiding or directing the genre.

 

[macattack]

"Alternative" is not a being, an entity, that makes mistakes. "Alternative" is a vague genre of music that suffers from ups and downs and fragmentation. Nobody is there as a supreme being guiding or directing the genre.

You are taking me way too literally. When I refer to Alternative in the singular, it's to the format as a whole. The vast majority of the stations in the format in the late-10's made this move, which is why I feel comfortable using the singular. I am well aware there is no supreme being.

Speaking of interesting crossovers, a recent Active Rock #1, "Just Pretend" by Bad Omens, wound up cracking the top 10 on Sunday. I believe this is the first non-Linkin Park metal band to hit the top 10 on Alternative since "Face to the Floor" by Chevelle at the tail end of the 2011 calendar year.

 

[davideduardo]

You are taking me way too literally. When I refer to Alternative in the singular, it's to the format as a whole. The vast majority of the stations in the format in the late-10's made this move, which is why I feel comfortable using the singular. I am well aware there is no supreme being.

And stations made that move because the newer the music, the more fragmented the audience is. There is no consensus except on the few broad-based hits.

 

[macattack]

And stations made that move because the newer the music, the more fragmented the audience is. There is no consensus except on the few broad-based hits.

The lack of consensus is what makes both CHR/Top 40 and Alternative either amazing formats or terrible ones. It's baked into how both formats are designed because of how reliant they are on variety. Two sides of the same coin.

 

[davideduardo]

The lack of consensus is what makes both CHR/Top 40 and Alternative either amazing formats or terrible ones. It's baked into how both formats are designed because of how reliant they are on variety. Two sides of the same coin.

But CHR is supported by the labels. As BigA has said many times, Alternative is not well supported.

Some of the "fault" (if there is any blame to be placed) comes from the vastly more limited international appeal of Alternative outside the US. CHR is widely popular, from Asia to Latin America and Europe so it makes a lot more monney for labels.

 

[PrezSquid]

But CHR is supported by the labels. As BigA has said many times, Alternative is not well supported.

Some of the "fault" (if there is any blame to be placed) comes from the vastly more limited international appeal of Alternative outside the US. CHR is widely popular, from Asia to Latin America and Europe so it makes a lot more monney for labels.

i never heard of a monney i've heard of money tho

The lack of consensus is what makes both CHR/Top 40 and Alternative either amazing formats or terrible ones. It's baked into how both formats are designed because of how reliant they are on variety. Two sides of the same coin.

agreed

 

[Kelly A]

But CHR is supported by the labels. As BigA has said many times, Alternative is not well supported.

And much of that reason is because what's considered new-alternative music, is discovered where people of a particular demographic look for new music/artists: Streaming and forms of social media (TikTok and Instagram). This whole thought that young people will flock back to radio if stations focus on new music is absurd. For one thing, radio doesn't have access to the same music as something produced in their bedroom via social media.

 

[TheBigA]

The lack of consensus is what makes both CHR/Top 40 and Alternative either amazing formats or terrible ones. It's baked into how both formats are designed because of how reliant they are on variety. Two sides of the same coin.

There has to be a basis for a radio station to add a new song. There are lots of songs out there, so why should I add one song and not add another. Programmers look for a reason to add. In the CHR world, the reason can be research, or label support, or incredible word of mouth. Back in the 90s, programmers would read R&R, and see what other stations were playing. Now they talk to their format heads and ask what songs are working in other markets. There has to be a basis other than subjective personal taste. That's what's missing. A lot of these posts come from people asking, "Why don't they play this song instead of that song?" What would be the basis for doing that other than personal taste? What data do you have? What research is there? What track record does the artist have? Those are the questions that need to be answered. They're music questions, not radio questions.