Actually, it was an artist (explaining the tail-off of sales of a formerly huge record) who first explained to me that a hit from 36 years ago is only a hit from an historical perspective, and most people don't view it that way.
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The new krth
- Thread starter krth101
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Actually, it was an artist (explaining the tail-off of sales of a formerly huge record) who first explained to me that a hit from 36 years ago is only a hit from an historical perspective, and most people don't view it that way.
Average weekly listenership (cume) of KRTH: 2,150,000
Average weekly listenership (cume) of KLOS: 1,400,000
Average weekly listenership (cume) of KSWD: 1,330,000
That is definitely "millions" and it does not even include listenership in the IE, Oxnard / Ventura or San Diego MSAs.
People tend to hang with people similar in taste to themselves. So it's very likely that your ultra-utra-ultra fringe tastes are mirrored among the kind of people you associate with.
As an example, anyone who like "Honey" or "Teen Angel" is automatically disqualified for being a friend of mine.
About 93% of the population listens to the radio (in LA it is 94%).
Before you theorize, baselessly, about how many are dissatisfied, it would be nice if you could, sometime, get your facts right.
They are a niche, small restaurant in the quaint "downtown" of Montrose. They only need a hundred or so customers a day to sustain the business.
Making any conclusion about "minority" is absurd.
Not an exaggeration. KRTH's weekly cume alone is 2 million.
What you have is 100% feedback from an unrepresentative (and small) sample. Many of whom, as David has suggested previously , are likely influenced to some degree by your obvious passion on the subject.
You're betting wrong. Radio's about money. If stations could make more by simply dusting off the Whitburn books and playing what people wanted to hear (for the sake of this argument, let's ignore the unreliability of those charts at the time) 35 years ago, they would.
It would cost them zero for research, apart from the cost of the book, and instead of hiring expensive pros like Jhani and Rick, they could get guys who couldn't program the police band in a riot for cheap.
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"Research" is a term, in this context, that means "asking the listeners themselves what they want to hear today".
In other words, the listeners don't want to hear most of the songs from your list from 36 years ago. A valid sample of the listeners has been consulted, and they all disagree with you.
Oh come on....you have no proof what songs these people like. You really think every one of them will disagree, every last one?? Each person has their own favorites. Person #67, will differ from person #142,700 and differ from #1,060,041 and differ from #991. You do not know what each and every SINGLE person will like or dislike and the results of an auditorium test which is a minute, miniscule fraction of the listening population cannot and will not replicate what these other 99.99% listen to. That is impossible. 100 participants cannot and will not represent the other 1,999,900. Sorry, I cannot agree with that, at all. We've been over this countless times, since....2008??
What's wrong with "Teen Angel" btw?? One of 1960's best.
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We have absolute proof of what groups of people will and won't like.
Radio can't cater to individual specific likes. It caters to broad likes of groups.
Actually, replication tests done specifically about music tests show that once you test somewhere around 80 people in a representative sample of a format's or station's audience, the results replicate within a tight margin whether you test the double, triple or more. So that "tiny" sample is actually quite accurate (+/- 3% on raw score) in determining the likes and dislikes of a station's specific universe.
You'll notice that polls use national samples of about 1000 people, and get within a percent or two of things like elections. In an election, 1% can be the difference of losing or winning. In radio, it is insignificant. So 100 people inside a tight demo and taste group is a very robust and accurate sample.
Since you seem to know less than nothing about replication, you might go to http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Ratings-Publictations-Papers.htm and read the two books by ARB and Arbitron about the subject.
Actually, 75 to 80 will do it adequately.
The difference is that I've conducted, supervised and analyzed about $40 million worth of tests over the last couple of decades, including some immense replication studies.
It might have been great in the 60's. it isn't today. It bites big time.
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Regarding "Teen Angel": That's one of the few songs that makes me do a mad dash for the radio dial and has since I first became familiar with it, in the early 1960s! Having said that, I've always thought that it should be included in any Oldies playlist, a concept which is now obsolete. If however, I were programming for 65+, it would still be played. That is, of course, a situation that I don't ever expect to occur.
Actually, after reading the most recent reviews of Fratelli's on Yelp, I'll stick with Dan Tana's on Santa Monica.
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Thomps2525
Guest
In August, KRTH asked listeners to submit a list of their favorite songs and then compiled a Top 500 that was played during Labor Day weekend. I would love to see the complete list of songs that were named. How many votes did the #500 song get? What would have been #501? What song would have been #1000 and how many votes did it get? Can anyone declare with certainty that the #1000 song would have been something that the majority of listeners would not want to hear and would change the station if they heard it on KRTH? Michael and David are correct in saying that KRTH---indeed, any classic hits stations---needs to play only the songs that still have appeal to the greatest number of listeners, and yet there are many of us who continually complain that KRTH plays the same boring burned-out songs over and over and over and over and over. Unfortunately, KRTH doesn't care about us. If we ever took part in one of those infamous auditorium tests and voted that we were sick of hearing 95% of the songs, our votes would be thrown out because we don't represent the majority. That, of course, would be the majority who inexplicably seems to like hearing the same boring burned-out songs over and over and over and over and over.
If you're tired of the same old songs, heard repeatedly seemingly forever, you might try going back to CHR, where the songs only repeat,for a few months, slack off and finally disappear completely. There's very little rap content anymore and you can get away, for a week or so, if the repetition gets to you. You also have the advantage of multiple stations, if you hear a song you can't stand. It also makes it easier to relate to AC.
And within that large group, each INDIVIDUAL person has their own favorites, which differs from each INDIVIDUAL person, within any group, whether a group of two, or a group of 1,000,000. Unless they are INDIVIDUALLY polled, research cannot say otherwise. I cannot see the revelance here.
Educated guess? You're getting close to single votes down around #500. There may not (I'd say probably not) have been 1,000 songs suggested.
And....for the kajillionth time....they don't listen like you do, as a result don't hear the same songs over and over and over and over and over.
If someone likes a song and hears it ten times in a year, spaced three weeks or more apart, that's not a problem for them. They couldn't tell you if you paid them how long it's been since the last time...they're just happy to hear it.
If those individual favorites differ from the other individuals, then there is no consensus, and the songs are poor choices for airplay on a mass medium.
Goes back to what I told you......maybe a year ago?
It's like being at a soda fountain. Let's say Steve, David and I are already here and you walk in, and you really want a Mountain Dew.
But the waitress tells you Steve was here first and he likes cream soda, so all of us have to have a glass of cream soda first. Then David was next, so we all get a glass of grape Fanta that we have to drink. And I beat you in the door, so then it's Boylan's Black Cherry. And then, you're next and we all have to drink a Mountain Dew.
I feel queasy just having typed that. That's radio with individual favorites.
But if we all like Coke, the simple thing is for us all to have one glass of Coke apiece.
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Thomps2525
Guest
And this soda fountain analogy comes from the guy who didn't like my pizzeria analogy!
Do you think that if KRTH had played songs #501 to #600, a lot of listeners would react with "Hey, I love those songs---I hope KRTH plays them more often"? Or do you think the majority would not want to hear them again? Is it possible that the songs that "test well" when snippets are played during auditorium tests don't necessarily evoke the same reaction when listeners hear them played in full on the radio? And is it possible that a lot of songs that listeners might want to hear are never even tested? Should a programmer rely solely on those music tests or should he also rely on his instincts as to what listeners would enjoy hearing?
Can I have my Mountain Dew now?
Do you think that if KRTH had played songs #501 to #600, a lot of listeners would react with "Hey, I love those songs---I hope KRTH plays them more often"? Or do you think the majority would not want to hear them again? Is it possible that the songs that "test well" when snippets are played during auditorium tests don't necessarily evoke the same reaction when listeners hear them played in full on the radio? And is it possible that a lot of songs that listeners might want to hear are never even tested? Should a programmer rely solely on those music tests or should he also rely on his instincts as to what listeners would enjoy hearing?
Can I have my Mountain Dew now?
And this soda fountain analogy comes from the guy who didn't like my pizzeria analogy!
Do you think that if KRTH had played songs #501 to #600, a lot of listeners would react with "Hey, I love those songs---I hope KRTH plays them more often"? Or do you think the majority would not want to hear them again? Is it possible that the songs that "test well" when snippets are played during auditorium tests don't necessarily evoke the same reaction when listeners hear them played in full on the radio? And is it possible that a lot of songs that listeners might want to hear are never even tested? Should a programmer rely solely on those music tests or should he also rely on his instincts as to what listeners would enjoy hearing?
Can I have my Mountain Dew now?
Because your pizzeria analogy was 180 degrees out of phase.
We've discussed "programmer instinct" and testing ad nauseam. Do you just not read what's written in the rush to post the next non sequitur?
You're cream soda. Oldies is Mountain Dew.
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Thomps2525
Guest
Okay then, I want KRTH to play Cream by Prince, Scotch & Soda by the Kingston Trio, Mountain Of Love by Harold Dorman, and Morning Dew by Lulu. (Insert "pop music" pun here.)
I am not the only one who wondered if Kaye was pushed out. Something about the way he left (and with no indication of where he's going) suggests that COULD be the case. Yes, he left in a gracious way and oversaw a transition. Doesn't mean it was voluntary; nor does it mean it wasn't.
In any event, my point was that in radio, you can be out the door with little warning. Hence the tendency to program from a place of fear, and to be very conservative. (Read: boring.)
Any station that has stood out in people's minds in some way is one that took a chance. KROQ in the early 80s. How about Howard Stern doing no music in the morning and going 20+ minutes without commercials? Totally against conventional wisdom. (Not a huge fan of Howard, but using him as an example.)
Anyway, regarding being bored by classic hits and classic rock, you are all living under rocks. No, I did not book the Ramada and conduct a focus group. And no, this is not scientific. But everyone I know who is a casual music fan, and that's a LOT of people, is totally bored with radio, and classic rock radio in particular. In fact when I put on KRTH in the car, if someone else is in the car with me, they are like "WTF - turn that off!"
Go ahead - I dare you. Ask people in your life in the "target demo" if they like the Sound, KLOS, KRTH, even Jack. I predict you will be met with groans.
For what it's worth, the Grove, probably the "hippest" mall in town (if a mall can be hip) plays Sinatra and such all the time. Doesn't seem to be annoying anyone.
Any more than the 50s tunes they blast at Dodger games alongside Blur, rap, classic rock, and everything else. People like lots o' stuff. We are not as dumb as radio consultants think we are!
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Thomps2525
Guest
The huge Americana shopping complex right here in good ol' Glendale has a big grassy area with several vendors and a fountain. Adult standards are always playing over the loudspeakers: Sinatra, Bennett, Streisand, Como, Bublé, Nat "King" Cole, Ella Fitzgerald et al. In the Glendale Galleria, almost every store has loud rock music blaring...and I don't think any two stores have the same channel on. It's cacophony at its finest.
If you ever attend any games of the High Desert Mavericks single-A baseball team, you'll hear rap or rock played at the end of every half-inning and every time a batter comes to the plate.
If you don't want to hear music blaring, you have to go either to a cemetery...or to Walden Pond. And I'm no longer even positive that those two places are quiet.
If you ever attend any games of the High Desert Mavericks single-A baseball team, you'll hear rap or rock played at the end of every half-inning and every time a batter comes to the plate.
If you don't want to hear music blaring, you have to go either to a cemetery...or to Walden Pond. And I'm no longer even positive that those two places are quiet.
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