The new krth

[ChannelFlipper]

I'll repeat:

When a station gains the perception of "repeating songs too often" the reason for those complaints (other than pure mechanics) is excessive play of mediocre songs.

So when a listener tunes in, instead of hearing "favorites", they hear so-so songs... songs that don't have strong passion and strong positive feelings.

And if a listener hears that kind of song often, they feel that the songs are repeating. It's not any actual individual songs that are repeating... its just songs the listener does not particularly like that create an impression.

The fix for this is to cut the lower scoring songs out of the library. If the rest of the station is well executed, the ratings will go up.

However, over time we have seen stations that don't understand... just as you don't... that "repeats the songs" does not mean that the library is too small. So they increase the song count in the name of variety, and are a) mystified and b) fired when the ratings go down.

David, David, David...

Even as you acknowledge, songs can fall into and out of favor. But you don't say WHY a song that was once good is now "mediocre". In many cases, it is because it was overplayed ad nauseum. "Brown Eyed Girl" and "My Girl" are and were great songs on their own merits - the songs did not get worse, stations like KRTH played them into the ground and ruined them such that I and many others never need to hear them again. So it is not just hearing mediocre songs repeated that drives listeners away. In fact I can't even think of a "bad" song that has made me forsake KRTH and other similar stations - It is the overplaying the "good ones" everyone is complaining about.

Same thing on the AOR side. The two Boston albums that came out in the 70s are great albums, with some amazing muscianship and in some cases, good songwriting. In the 70's, I couldn't get enough - that is until corporate AOR radio came along with their testing and shrunken playlists to make sure I not only got enough, I got it rammed down my throat for going on 30 years now. Nobody takes the band seriously (well their 80's material helped in this department, but I digress) even though they made a couple of the best album rock records of all time. What I am trying to say is, where once I liked, now I flip - automatically. Again,it is not the songs themselves; they never changed. It is radio and radio alone that ruined them.

Lastly, the idea that with a limited playlist people can go weeks and months without hearing a repeat based on "similar listening patterns" is simply a statistician's fantasy. *People don't live like that* and I bet many people hear the repeated songs (you know, the "good ones") many times in one week, even though they "play at different times". I know I have heard multiple repeats in a given week on KRTH many times, and for that station, I am definitely a "casual listener" at best.

 

[semoochie]

"Steve, you will never get it. KRTH can no longer be successful by playing 1950s-60s. Their target audience grew up with 1970s-80s-90s music and that's what they want to hear on KRTH. The older songs appeal to an older audience which is outside KRTH's target. And your constant complaining about Brown Eyed Girl is really getting tiresome."

Since Michael is no longer posting on this thread, I took the liberty of answering myself for him. (All in fun, Michael! You are a great debater!)

I know how to bring him back: Am I to understand that Classic Hits is going for the broad target of 25-54, rather than 45-54, as the music would indicate, so they aim directly at 40 year olds? Does this make AC an older(by comparison)skewing format, going after 35-54, despite playing newer music?

 

[mighty met]

I for one am quite grateful KRTH has shaken up the playlist. It's a pretty bold move to throw on some Kansas, Steve Miller, and I think I even heard the Eagles the other day. Been years since I heard that old nugget "Hotel California." What other station has the guts to play Peter Frampton's "Show Me The Way?" Seriously innovative and forward-thinking radio. I wish JACK, KLOS, and the Sound would get on board and play some of these treasures too. Thanks KRTH for making radio exciting and vibrant again.

 

[oldies76]

I for one am quite grateful KRTH has shaken up the playlist. It's a pretty bold move to throw on some Kansas, Steve Miller, and I think I even heard the Eagles the other day. Been years since I heard that old nugget "Hotel California." What other station has the guts to play Peter Frampton's "Show Me The Way?"

Your post is very funny.

KRTH should play Frampton's "I Can't Stand It No More" instead.

 

[gr8oldies]

One word: Spotify. All of the obscure (or at least most) songs the geeks want are there. Folks can play "Dominique" to their heart's content.

Guys, enjoy. I'm done. Life is too short to spend trying to explain to grown men why it's a bad idea to stick their fingers into light sockets.

 

[mighty met]

There are many great sources for any music one could want: Sirius/XM, Pandora, Youtube, Spotify, internet-only stations... But there is something about having the music on the radio, having it local, and having it hosted live. Particularly with satellite and internet, the sound quality is often not the greatest compared with FM. Something's lost when it's just songs played on autopilot.

This is why I seek out hosted shows where the jocks get to choose. For example:

- Bob Coburn Sunday night on KLOS.
- XM's 60s Satellite Survey. Authentic countdown based on charts of the day.
- KCSN Saturday night. "Mr. Shovel" (formerly of Indie 103) does a great program.
- WLNG Sunday afternoons. Few ads and lots of 50s to 90s music, DJ selected.
- The Sound's Peace, Love, and Sunday Morning has a little bit of open-ness to it.
- Breakfast with the Beatles on KLOS. Entirely DJ selected, and now that KRTH doesn't play Beatles too much, serves more of a purpose. (K-Earth does do a very nice pre-recorded Beatles show, though sadly airing at the exact same time as KLOS' live show)

 

[Unregistered]

There are many great sources for any music one could want: Sirius/XM, Pandora, Youtube, Spotify, internet-only stations... But there is something about having the music on the radio, having it local, and having it hosted live. Particularly with satellite and internet, the sound quality is often not the greatest compared with FM. Something's lost when it's just songs played on autopilot.

My Sirius sound is very clean and pristine. FM stations compress their signals to where it sounds like AM.

 

[Robert Bass]

But there is something about having the music on the radio, having it local, and having it hosted live. Particularly with satellite and internet, the sound quality is often not the greatest compared with FM.

Really? In what way? Are you referring to just the audio quality? If that's the case, then I don't agree. A 128k mp3 Internet stream has basically the same audio quality as a terrestrial FM. Terra's also over-compress the audio into a square waveform, killing all of the dynamic range present.

R

 

[oldies76]

But there is something about having the music on the radio, having it local, and having it hosted live.

You said it well. 110% agreed!

 

[Thomps2525]

David and Michael are firm believers in the "fewer-is-better" theory of music programming: Play only the biggest hits the appeal to the greatest number of people. A thought just occurred to me---and yes, that does happen occasionally. I have never heard anyone complain that KRTH plays too many songs, nor I have heard anyone mention hearing a particular song on KRTH and saying that KRTH shouldn't be playing it. Nope, every complaint I hear about KRTH's music is that the same few hundred songs are played over and over and over and over and over and too many big hits are ignored.

Before long, KRTH will sound like a hybrid of KLOS and the old Jammin' Oldies KCMG. Today I added three more songs (below) to the list at http://www.xmfan.com/viewtopic.php?p=1988164#1988164 and eventually I'll have to remove most of the 1960s songs---perhaps all of them, if Rick Thomas wants to emulate KOLA's 1970s-80s-90s format.

Faithfully - Journey (12/1983)
The Long Run - Eagles (8/1979)
The Second Time Around - Shalimar (8/1979)

 

[Unregistered]

David and Michael are firm believers in the "fewer-is-better" theory of music programming: Play only the biggest hits the appeal to the greatest number of people. A thought just occurred to me---and yes, that does happen occasionally. I have never heard anyone complain that KRTH plays too many songs, nor I have heard anyone mention hearing a particular song on KRTH and saying that KRTH shouldn't be playing it. Nope, every complaint I hear about KRTH's music is that the same few hundred songs are played over and over and over and over and over and too many big hits are ignored.

Before long, KRTH will sound like a hybrid of KLOS and the old Jammin' Oldies KCMG. Today I added three more songs (below) to the list at http://www.xmfan.com/viewtopic.php?p=1988164#1988164 and eventually I'll have to remove most of the 1960s songs---perhaps all of them, if Rick Thomas wants to emulate KOLA's 1970s-80s-90s format.

Faithfully - Journey (12/1983)
The Long Run - Eagles (8/1979)
The Second Time Around - Shalimar (8/1979)

I've followed the thread with interest, but I don't think either of them are "fans" of anything so much as established, data-backed examples of what had been proven to work, and what--with very few, mostly apples-to-oranges exceptions--doesn't.

 

[calguy]

Really? In what way? Are you referring to just the audio quality? If that's the case, then I don't agree. A 128k mp3 Internet stream has basically the same audio quality as a terrestrial FM. Terra's also over-compress the audio into a square waveform, killing all of the dynamic range present.

R

I don't know... I've rented several cars with XM/Sirius and it always sounds like an mid to low range MP3. 128K is in my mind the bare minimum sampling rate.Even 320KBPS, while superior to the lower rates doesn't sound as good as a WAV file. Sadly, a lot of stations use product MP3'd to them and it's usually pretty easy to tell. As for over compression, yeah, lots of stations get it wrong, but not all of them. KRTH has a pretty good dynamic, especially compared to most of the Clear Channel FM's in LA.

 

[oldies76]

David and Michael are firm believers in the "fewer-is-better" theory of music programming: Play only the biggest hits the appeal to the greatest number of people. A thought just occurred to me---and yes, that does happen occasionally. I have never heard anyone complain that KRTH plays too many songs, nor I have heard anyone mention hearing a particular song on KRTH and saying that KRTH shouldn't be playing it. Nope, every complaint I hear about KRTH's music is that the same few hundred songs are played over and over and over and over and over and too many big hits are ignored.

That's radio vs. the listeners for you! And the listeners will win...give it time! They will find their oldies and THEIR FAVORITES one way or another. Give it time.

 

[davideduardo]

David and Michael are firm believers in the "fewer-is-better" theory of music programming: Play only the biggest hits the appeal to the greatest number of people.

There is no "fewer is better" theory or practice.

In reality, a station will play as many songs as they can find that are mass appeal. The number is set by listeners, not programmers.

 

[Robert Bass]

Yes but even FM radio doesn't come close to .WAV file quality.

R

 

[calguy]

True, but most FM's still sound better than a 128KBPS MP3. At least to my ears.

 

[Thomps2525]

David, if listeners truly determine the size of the playlist and a station truly wants to find all the "mass-appeal" songs, then why doesn't KRTH---to pick the obvious example---conduct one of their infamous "music tests" and play an excerpt from every 1970s-80s song that was a top-20 hit? There certainly are hundreds more mass-appeal hits than what KRTH has been playing over and over and over and over and over for decades. I'm sure there are hundreds of songs that listeners could hear in a music test and think "Wow, I haven't heard that one for 30 years! I'd love to hear that on KRTH!" But I have a feeling that KRTH pretty much tests only the songs that they're already playing, plus a few big hits that haven't been played for a few years. Such a test guarantees that we'll keep hearing the "same ol' songs" on KRTH.

 

[davideduardo]

David, if listeners truly determine the size of the playlist and a station truly wants to find all the "mass-appeal" songs, then why doesn't KRTH---to pick the obvious example---conduct one of their infamous "music tests" and play an excerpt from every 1970s-80s song that was a top-20 hit?

That's exactly what stations that test do, and have done, for about 40 years.

Stations test hundreds and hundreds of songs in addition to their current playlist.

They test songs that were borderline but did not pass in the more recent tests. They test songs that are newer and "coming into the demo" of the station's target.

But once you see a song test horribly several times, you don't test it any more (unless you really redefine the format).

Of course, as we have mentioned, chart position has very little relevance today except, maybe, as a "double check" that no song has been left behind without testing it. Charts were so unreliable that for airplay, they are next to meaningless.

 

[oldies76]

That's exactly what stations that test do, and have done, for about 40 years.

Stations test hundreds and hundreds of songs in addition to their current playlist.

So if testing on hundreds of additional songs beyond KRTH's 600 or so that they already play, that would make the testing total about 1000-1200 songs each session? And say 100 people are at a testing session, how many of those must pass a song for it to air on KRTH?

And you do realize that between 1968 and 1987, there are 2918 songs that charted in the top 20 positions, plus many album only tracks that have aired. Using these numbers, around 20% of those charted singles are being aired today (if KRTH has a 600 song playlist).

8 of every 10 hits from the 1968-1987 period are NOT being aired today. That's actually very discouraging.

I would be content with at least 50%.

 

[semoochie]

They aren't being aired because not enough people are at least neutral to them. If 40% absolutely loves a song but the other 60% absolutely hates it, it shouldn't be played! I'm guessing that it doesn't have to be that dramatic. If 25% of your audience truly hates a song, it probably doesn't get played.