The new krth

[TheBigA]

Which means Rick "retained" the audience that Jhani had before he left.

Maybe.

 

[davideduardo]

Which means Rick "retained" the audience that Jhani had before he left.

No, he kept the existing 25-54s and added more. The dropped some 55+ in the process.

 

[Unregistered]

If done right, anything is possible.

No, actually it's not.

But what is being done well has been proven by the numbers...and yet the same straw men are trotted out and, seemingly, treated as valid arguments. The bottom line rules--always has.

 

[krth101]

I agree with oldies 76 and his thoughts on wcbs. I find their programming, playlist and overall presentation far more appealing than KRTH101. CBS fm sounds more like KRTH during the jhani Kaye era. Honestly, based on their current playlist, I'm not sure who KRTH is or exactly what audience they're trying to reach. The ratings for now, indicate the tweak in format is working *- it just doesn't work for me. It seems where the oldies fans may be disappointed *,the professionals on this board applaud what KRTH is doing. Although where they bashed jay coffey, they applaud rick thomas for programming essentially the same way. There is no debate, just personal preference and confusion. I'm perplexed as well by the statements made about a shorter tighter playlist being the trend in the industry and ultimately conducive to better ratings. CBS FM seems to be taking a different approach - a long playlist, specialty programming and the occasional "oh wow", forgotten record mixed in between. And certainly no where near the repetition heard on KRTH. They're doing this with incredible numbers as their ratings have skyrocketed. It appears both philosophies may work. The lengthy playlist isn't dead. It seems that it's the individual programmers decision and not just the audience.

 

[oldies76]

CBS FM seems to be taking a different approach - a long playlist, specialty programming and the occasional "oh wow", forgotten record mixed in between. And certainly no where near the repetition heard on KRTH. They're doing this with incredible numbers as their ratings have skyrocketed. It appears both philosophies may work. The lengthy playlist isn't dead. It seems that it's the individual programmers decision and not just the audience.

Agree as well KRTH101.....A great example of this is just this past weekend's countdowns. CBS-FM, played their top 500, but a wonderful selection and mix of 70's 80's and some 60's. K-Earth 101: All they could offer is a top 101 "kick off to summer" countdown, which repeated several times throughout the weekend. And most of their songs were hits they already play in weekly rotations, with an exception to those few hard rock songs (posted on the other thread) that really have no place on classic hits. They belong on KLOS or classic rock stations. Also many songs had nothing to do with "summer". WOGL had a 2000 song A to Z week-long special that just ended at midnight. That special had many 60's songs, as well as many 70's hits and 80's not even heard today (from me to you!), but they also played the strong hits as well mixed in. To you and I, this is radio. This the way radio is meant to be heard.

I believe K-Earth 101 may have dropped the ball once again with it's limited approach to how classic hits should in fact be presented today and especially during a holiday weekend. We'll see who the new PD will end up being, but hopefully he'll realize the successes stations like CBS-FM and WOGL have done lately and hopefully follow that approach and return KRTH to the station it was known for (for many, many years) and not a copycat to some typical corporate presented playlist that many stations have decided to implement and frankly bore the heck out of it's listeners. Rick Thomas and Jay tried to follow that path. WOGL and CBS-FM do not bore and for big city markets, do a fantastic job in it's presentations.

 

[crainbebo]

Obviously KRTH is run by research groups who don't know what classic hits are. "Oh wow" hits should be required at all oldies stations!

-crainbebo

 

[davideduardo]

Obviously KRTH is run by research groups who don't know what classic hits are. "Oh wow" hits should be required at all oldies stations!

What we know is that those supposed "Oh, wow" songs are simply songs that did not have enough positive acceptance to be in the regular programming. So when they play, we see the MScores showing how significant numbers of listeners have left the station each time one is played.

 

[AM FM listener]

What we know is that those supposed "Oh, wow" songs are simply songs that did not have enough positive acceptance to be in the regular programming. So when they play, we see the MScores showing how significant numbers of listeners have left the station each time one is played.

So then, how come some successful stations play the "oh wow's" and some don't? Surely, CBS-FM does not want to lose listeners any more than K-Earth does. Why does CBS-FM feel they can take more risks than K-Earth? I have no axe to grind for long or short libraries; I just find this debate very interesting.

 

[oldies76]

What we know is that those supposed "Oh, wow" songs are simply songs that did not have enough positive acceptance to be in the regular programming. So when they play, we see the MScores showing how significant numbers of listeners have left the station each time one is played.

There's no exact concrete evidence on how many actual listeners will press the button if an "Oh Wow" lost hit comes on. In fact, many will stay tuned in, because it's an "Oh Wow". Many other listeners also switch stations when a familiar song comes on for the 27th time in 3 months. It works both ways. And that's why CBS-FM and WOGL will remain successful.

 

[oldies76]

Obviously KRTH is run by research groups who don't know what classic hits are. "Oh wow" hits should be required at all oldies stations!

-crainbebo

Bingo!

 

[CTListener]

So then, how come some successful stations play the "oh wow's" and some don't? Surely, CBS-FM does not want to lose listeners any more than K-Earth does. Why does CBS-FM feel they can take more risks than K-Earth? I have no axe to grind for long or short libraries; I just find this debate very interesting.

I just went through the past 24 hours of WCBS-FM playlists and didn't find much "oh wow" material at all. Tony Orlando's "He Don't Love You" qualifies. Maybe Barry White's "I'm Gonna Love You Just a Little More." Billy Joel's "Scenes From an Italian Restaurant" wouldn't see the light of day on a classic hits station outside of New York City/Long Island, where Joel is God. I did notice two spins less than 12 hours apart (around 9 last night and around 7 this morning) for Club Nouveau's version of "Lean On Me." Maybe this was one of those songs that did better in New York than anywhere else, can't say I've ever heard it on any other classic hits station. Most are still playing the Bill Withers original.

 

[TheBigA]

There's no exact concrete evidence on how many actual listeners will press the button if an "Oh Wow" lost hit comes on. In fact, many will stay tuned in, because it's an "Oh Wow". Many other listeners also switch stations when a familiar song comes on for the 27th time in 3 months. It works both ways. And that's why CBS-FM and WOGL will remain successful.

What's your "concrete evidence" that they'll stay tuned in, other than your own personal preference?

PPM shows programmers exact minute-by-minute listening. Put that next to the playlist, and you know what song was playing when someone changed the station. See it enough times, and you have concrete evidence.

 

[oldies76]

What's your "concrete evidence" that they'll stay tuned in, other than your own personal preference?

PPM shows programmers exact minute-by-minute listening. Put that next to the playlist, and you know what song was playing when someone changed the station. See it enough times, and you have concrete evidence.

And out of all the possible listeners to one particular station (KRTH for example), how many listeners (in car, at home, in the office) actually have this PPM device to measure their activity on any given day.

 

[TheBigA]

And out of all the possible listeners to one particular station (KRTH for example), how many listeners (in car, at home, in the office) actually have this PPM device to measure their activity on any given day.

I'm sure DE can give you the exact number. But it doesn't matter how many. They're the only ones who matter. They're the ones who are counted, and they're the ones the ad rates are based on. When we say the ratings are up, it's because of the people in market with PPM. Not some anecdotal experience from a guy in Colorado.

 

[davideduardo]

And out of all the possible listeners to one particular station (KRTH for example), how many listeners (in car, at home, in the office) actually have this PPM device to measure their activity on any given day.

There are approximately 3 thousand in-tab meters on any given day.

If the PUR in LA is around 10 (meaning 10% of people on average are listening to the radio from 6 AM to Midnight), that means 300 meters are detecting listening. And a station with a 3 share would have 9 meters picking up their listening...

 

[davideduardo]

There's no exact concrete evidence on how many actual listeners will press the button if an "Oh Wow" lost hit comes on. .

Yes, there is. It is called an MScore from Media Monitors, which tracks the meters detecting a station each time every different song is played and creates historical index numbers showing whether meters stay or leave. Songs that get lots of tune-out are very easy to spot.

 

[davideduardo]

So then, how come some successful stations play the "oh wow's" and some don't? Surely, CBS-FM does not want to lose listeners any more than K-Earth does. Why does CBS-FM feel they can take more risks than K-Earth? I have no axe to grind for long or short libraries; I just find this debate very interesting.

CBS-FM just has a bit larger playlist, but they don't play stiffs.

The target group for classic hits in NYC is obviously a bit more homogonized in taste, so there are more songs that get good consensus scores. LA has rather unique population issues that mean that there are fewer songs "all" classic hits fans in the desired sales demos like.

 

[krth101]

As much as I appreciate the responses thus far, I don't know that either of the questions I posed were completely answered. Perhaps if I rephrase them, someone can talk to why CBS FMs longer playlist seems to be contributing to their enormous ratings surge, while the professionals here have been advocating shorter lists as the industry trend. Is the assumption that CBS FM is an aberration based on the new York city market? *Or simply with their target audience a higher number of records test better? Hypothetically, following industry trends, why wouldn't *CBS copy KRTHS example and further narrow their list, refine it to where only the very best of the best are played. Thankfully,that's not the case.*In terms of "wow" songs, I wasn't referring to stiffs. A "wow" to me is a record not generally found in regular rotation - KRTH at one time called these "lost oldies" - and wasn't afraid to take a chance. My point was that CBS is willing to run the risk of mixing these songs in occasionally while other stations won't. It doesn't appear these seldom played songs are adversely affecting their ratings in the least. And I'm still curious as to why Rick Thomas's programming tenure at KRTH was professionally lauded while jay Coffey was ridiculed 10 years earlier for essentially sharing the same philosophy - Just with different songs. Just asking.

 

[davideduardo]

As much as I appreciate the responses thus far, I don't know that either of the questions I posed were completely answered. Perhaps if I rephrase them, someone can talk to why CBS FMs longer playlist seems to be contributing to their enormous ratings surge, while the professionals here have been advocating shorter lists as the industry trend.

Most classic hits stations nationwide run in the 500 to 700 regular titles range. CBS-FM is at the high end of that range. The reason for any particular playlist size is generally "that is how many songs passed the test".

Is the assumption that CBS FM is an aberration based on the new York city market? *Or simply with their target audience a higher number of records test better?

Door #2 gets the prize. Playlist size is nearly always a result of music tests and the point the station sets as a cut-off.

Hypothetically, following industry trends, why wouldn't *CBS copy KRTHS example and further narrow their list, refine it to where only the very best of the best are played.

KRTH's list is shorter because LA is closing in on 50% Hispanic, and the KRTH cume is over 50% Hispanic... so the number of titles that test with both Hispanics and non-Hispanic listeners tends to be shorter due to polarization.

My point was that CBS is willing to run the risk of mixing these songs in occasionally while other stations won't. It doesn't appear these seldom played songs are adversely affecting their ratings in the least.

No, CBS just has a deeper list, with lots of songs that only play a few times a week... so in any given daypart they may come up every 3 or 4 weeks at most.

And I'm still curious as to why Rick Thomas's programming tenure at KRTH was professionally lauded while jay Coffey was ridiculed 10 years earlier for essentially sharing the same philosophy - Just with different songs. Just asking.

None of the folks I knew in the business thought badly of what Jay did at KRTH, 'cause it worked. It was the "deep oldies" crowd that moaned and groaned. Just as they do now.

 

[Groove1670]

I'm bored so.... I decided to revisit this thread while eating a box of stale cookies.

Oh pleeze play "Seasons In The Sun" "kookie kookie lend me your comb" and.... "Jeremiah Peabody's Polyunsaturated Quick-Dissolving
Fast-Acting Pleasant-Tasting Green and Purple Pills" Those PPM's will go thru the roof.

Oh some Shalamar too. Hey they played it Miami, why not LA.

Devoted oldies fans, and collectors would think it is Christmas if added. The other 98.7% ...meh...

Quote:
"Wow...I Want Candy & Need you Tonight... it's Flashback Lunch on KEARTH 101, now if they play Patience or Sweet Child O' Mine from GNR I will know that world will be ending soon"

Yes those songs are over 30 years old, and are considered "oldies" ah... "Classic Hits" for our generation. I'm 47.