The new krth

[Joey1986]

[post deleted]

 

[krth101]

I find it disappointing that an open and honest discussion and sharing of divergent opinion can't be conducted in a somewhat civil manner. There is no reason for anyone to cop an attitude here simply because we disagree. Where I completely understand the stand taken on this forum - and on the other board by the professionals, isn't there - or shouldnt there be room, or at least a little tolerance for those who see things differently? I don't think there is any question as to why 50s and 60s music has disappeared from the radio. I understand that it's all about ratings and revenue - perhaps at the expense of what made radio great prior to the existence of ppm. Ive learned a great deal from the pros although i still feel the right to challenge their opinions while expressing mine and reading those of pure radio fans such as oldies 76. With that said, there are a few questions and comments I have for the pros, and anyone who chooses to chime in on.

1 - there has been a great deal of talk about*KOLA in the last year and how they changed the focus of their music away from the 60s and 70s and into the 80s and 90s. The ratings, up until now, have shown this to be a good move on their part. My thought from the very beginning however was if these "new" songs would have the legs to sustain ratings over the long run? I ask this again in light of the latest ratings. Granted I only have access to 6 plus, but noted there was a rather large decline in the last month. Is this drop also occurring in 25-34 demo and if so, could you provide an explanation. Could it be that the novelty of these no longer new records being played over and over again has begun to wear off?*

2 - I see with great interest and actually surprised that KRTH is bringing back it's traditional top 400 4rth of July countdown. A few weeks back, when a number of us were applauding CBS FM for doing a memorial day top 500 and sharing our disappointment over KRTHS limited playlist and airing of only their top 100, I recall the pros - correct me if I'm wrong, stating that these large countdowns, much like deep music lists are a thing of the past. KRTH has had a change of heart apparently. Can you talk to this? And can someone please explain KRTHs new methodology in regard to these countdowns. What is the thought behind tabulating listener votes to determine the top 25 and then having the audience revote from that point to ascertain the top songs? It seems convoluted but there must be a reason they've chosen to go this route.

3 - *I find it interesting as well that there have been 2 distinct groups debating this topic of classic radio and where it's moved in the past years. The pros have certainly made the business side clear. The fans of not just oldies radio, but radio with deeper playlists, lost oldies, special programming have also stated our opinions, even though bashed here by some for doing so. What I find missing are the new listeners - the ones apparently supporting the new KRTH. Am I wrong, or have I yet to hear even one new fan of their updated format comment.

And while speaking of fans, I thought it was rather disingenuous of lance to shut down the thread on the other board. I appreciate what lance did by opening that board when this one temporarily went away. However aren't boards like these made so topics can be discussed, and debated? And if you don't like what's being said, walk away from it, like Michael did. Don't read it, don't comment on it. But for gods sake, dont shut it down. Honestly, the KRTH topic was the only one seeming to generate any interest on the other board. Look at the topics and periods of time between responses. Practically non existent. At least the KRTH thread generated interest and invited lively discussion. Shutting it down did no body any good. And to do so at the whim of a participant is particularly disturbing.

I still feel that this is an interesting topic and hope we can continue to share our various opinions.*

 

[K.M. Richards]

Once again......page 1, #85389.

Here, let me save everyone the trouble.

In its entirety, this is what I said.

Only if the debate doesn’t devolve into the same idiocy that it had at the old board.

I am not in the mood to read the same suggestions about “lost hits” and bigger playlists from armchair quarterbacks, followed by corrections from actual radio professionals who are then told they are wrong …

In other words, if “oldies76″ or “LARadioRewind” show up, I’m going to be asking Lance to appoint a moderator pretty damn quickly.

If anyone other than oldies76 wants to define that as "name calling" please let them speak now. I called the debate "idiocy" but not him. "Armchair quarterbacks" is a well-known and non-offensive term for amateurs who try to second guess the professionals.

I rest my case. I wish oldies76 would rest his.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I find it disappointing that an open and honest discussion and sharing of divergent opinion can't be conducted in a somewhat civil manner. There is no reason for anyone to cop an attitude here simply because we disagree. Where I completely understand the stand taken on this forum - and on the other board by the professionals, isn't there - or shouldnt there be room, or at least a little tolerance for those who see things differently?

This started out, years ago, as an open and honest discussion. It changed because one poster in particular refused to accept the answers and essentially began a crusade of repeating himself ad nauseum even though all the points he was making had been made before and replied to.

If this were still a discussion, I wouldn't have this attitude. But it isn't. It has devolved into a "us against the world" circular argument where "us" is defined as oldies76 and his supporters and "the world" as David, Big A, Hagerty, myself, and other industry programming professionals.

At some point, it is logical to say "enough is enough", concede that you have lost the argument, and move on. However, oldies76 refuses to do so and that is why my attitude has become somewhat less civil. I have privately e-mailed Boz and asked him to look at this thread, especially my own recent posts, and decide as the board manager what to do about it. I have also agreed to abide by any decision he arrives at; if he says I crossed the line, I will apologize for same and we will move on. But if he decides that the thread's repetitive nature pushed me to react that way, no apology.

That's what I've agreed to, oldies76. If Boz decides this topic has been discussed to death, will you abide by his decision and stop?

 

[Thomps2525]

I showed up but I toned down the "armchair quarterbacking" and K.M. and I have remained civil. Most of us here are civil. There will always be a few who continue to tilt at windmills (to use a charming literary term). As for point #3 in the above post, people in general are far more likely to make criticisms than to offer compliments. KRTH obviously has a lot of "new listeners" who enjoy the 1970s-'80s-early '90s and don't care about hearing '50s-'60s. They have no need or desire to publicly say so. Their numbers are reflected in the ratings. We who would rather hear '50s-'60s can easily find our music on Internet stations, Spotify, Sonic Tap or satellite radio. Complaining will not get us anywhere. At least, it hasn't yet. I, too, rest my case.

 

[davideduardo]

1 - there has been a great deal of talk about*KOLA in the last year and how they changed the focus of their music away from the 60s and 70s and into the 80s and 90s. The ratings, up until now, have shown this to be a good move on their part. My thought from the very beginning however was if these "new" songs would have the legs to sustain ratings over the long run? I ask this again in light of the latest ratings. Granted I only have access to 6 plus, but noted there was a rather large decline in the last month. Is this drop also occurring in 25-34 demo and if so, could you provide an explanation. Could it be that the novelty of these no longer new records being played over and over again has begun to wear off?*

A single month in the PPM is generally not considered worth focusing on unless the trend continues for several books. There is just not enough sample in the IE for us to be able to differentiate between programming based issues and sample based issues.

It is, though, interesting that KRTH has just about doubled its 25-54 share in the IE in the last 5 months, so perhaps there has been some real erosion of KOLA caused by the fresh sound of KRTH. In radio, we all know that some of our listeners are "settlers" who settle on us for lack of a better match with their personal tastes... perhaps the settlers at KOLA who wanted a more rhythmic and less rock version of the old hits have moved to KRTH?

Still, much of the KOLA loss was mornings, so perhaps there has been a change in the feel, content or talent on the morning show. I don't normally listen to KOLA, so perhaps someone else can chime in on this aspect.

 

[Thomps2525]

K.M. I forgive you for posting something at the same time as my reply to your previous post so my response is now out of sequence. I know you didn't do it deliberately. And you have never "crossed the line." Go to the XM fan site and read the debates on gun control and "global warming"---that is where you'll find the line-crossing: never-ending profanity, insults and ad hominem arguments.

On the other big radio discussions site, somebody who loves capital letters started a new topic yesterday: "WHY DOESN'T WCBS-FM 101.1 ACTUALLY PLAY OLDIES ANYMORE?" Here we go again!

 

[oldies76]

I rest my case. I wish oldies76 would rest his.

Many past threads have been good, sometimes long discussions about KRTH, CBS-FM and playlists, lost hits and songs, countdowns and specialty weekends, and the pros and cons of it. Myself, krth101, Radio Rewind, Bob, Biondi and others have had discussions on these topics throughout the years, and yes the professionals would chime in and give us their sides and yes, some of us would disagree or agree. And that's the purpose of these threads. But KM Richards has an exception. It seems we cannot even have any discussions anymore, because if he disagrees with it, he'll barge in, take over and will claim, we have no lives and posting with insanity. So, KM, like Mr. Hagerty, maybe it would be great too, if you would just walk away as well, if you cannot handle it.

Myself and others will always believe what should be done in radio (regardless of what you have to say). It's 2014. There will be a point in the future where NO music from the 50's to the 80's will ever be heard on air and then they will ALL become lost favorites and gone from the airwaves forever. Sure, Pandora, XM, You Tube, you're own MP3 players will provide an alternative, but radio is special and once it's gone, it's gone.

And the debate is not "idiocy" as you claim, it's interesting, has a purpose, it's educational and yes, sometimes repetitive and over-the-top, but what do you expect? YOU seem to only have an exception here and on the other board.

We will continue to keep posting whatever the heck we desire to post, if it's relevant to the topic at hand. And if we disagree, some of us will make exceptions to it, if needed or if we even want to anymore. Personally, I've had it. My opinion will not change and will NEVER change. There are stations that agree with our philosophy but you refuse to accept that. I do not need to prove to you, which ones they are, because you already know that. You're in the business, you figure it out. WOGL for the 7th time, is one. KRTH is not the only station in the United States, there are hundreds more and many small stations will make sure that listener satisfaction is their first priority. You have not realized that and it's unfortunate.

So thanks to the support with posters like krth101 (above) RR, and even to DavidEduardo who has the wonderful insight and background, even if we don't agree on some points. At least he didn't come across like a raging bull, threatening to call the moderators "pretty damn quickly" if myself and RR showed up on the other board. YOU did that and your ego really showed, ie....#85389.

Krth101, I personally would like to invite you to XMfan, where people and listeners who love music and radio come by and post their opinions about music. And yes there are a couple KRTH threads there as well. Look under Decades Discussions

Someday soon, I will revisit Radio Discussions, hopefully when we can discuss something w/o the bluntness of one. I look forward to having some nice K-Earth 101 discussions with you, krth101. Maybe around Labor Day Weekend, for the tribute to their once great (and still is) specialty weekend of all time.

"Celebrating 59 years of Rock and Roll". See ya.

 

[oldies76]

- I see with great interest and actually surprised that KRTH is bringing back it's traditional top 400 4rth of July countdown. A few weeks back, when a number of us were applauding CBS FM for doing a memorial day top 500 and sharing our disappointment over KRTHS limited playlist and airing of only their top 100, I recall the pros - correct me if I'm wrong, stating that these large countdowns, much like deep music lists are a thing of the past. KRTH has had a change of heart apparently. Can you talk to this? And can someone please explain KRTHs new methodology in regard to these countdowns. What is the thought behind tabulating listener votes to determine the top 25 and then having the audience revote from that point to ascertain the top songs? It seems convoluted but there must be a reason they've chosen to go this route.

Find the KRTH topic on "KRTH - 30 Years ago on Decades" in XMFan to continue if desired, I'd like to.


http://www.xmfan.com/viewforum.php?f=22

 

[ChannelFlipper]

KMR

Oldies76 and his friends have been posting here for a long-time without any trouble. Some of his points are valid, some are not, just like every other poster on this board. The board was made for both pros and listeners alike. The point of the board is to have discussions, not "win arguments". I personally find the tone of your posts rather arrogant and condescending, and contrary to your point of view, there is no one "right" answer to anything. And if you think Oldies76 is a troll (as you seem to imply) then it is up to you to not feed it - you are both guilty of the same offense.

It looks to me like you are the one who cannot differentiate from where a discussion ends and argument begins. And as you can see, this thread has been going on for quite some time without any animosity until you showed up. So why don't you man up and end the argument you think you have won by not posting long-winded posts about how you and all of the pros are right all of the time.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Channel Flipper, why did you use the expression "man up"?

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Channel Flipper, why did you use the expression "man up"?

Adolescents will argue to no end about how they are "right".

Mature men (and women) know how to respectfully make one's own points without denigrating the viewpoints of others. That is what I would like to see KMR do.

 

[davideduardo]

KMR

Oldies76 and his friends have been posting here for a long-time without any trouble.

The problem is that 76 and his camp followers post the same "play the lost oldies" stuff over and over and over and over and....

Some of his points are valid, some are not,

Please point me to a valid one. I musta' missed it among the thousands of deep cuts and lost hits posts.

 

[oldies76]

Please point me to a valid one. I musta' missed it among the thousands of deep cuts and lost hits posts.

Wow DE...and after I have given you some kudos for your contributions here. You guys truly amaze and baffle me.

I appreciate the feedback Channel Flipper. Many posts are valid, DE and the bunch just disagree over and over again. It does not mean it's 100% wrong or right. It means they are valid, just not used by you, but by others. And obviously I'm not going solo. Others agree with me as well on these boards.
No one is perfect, including you.

So it's even....wanna call it that??

 

[TheBigA]

It does not mean it's 100% wrong or right. It means they are valid, just not used by you, but by others.

I believe the sky is green. Because I believe it, that makes it valid. And nothing you can say will change my view. I love my green sky.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

For the record, Oldies76, I am in your camp, especially regarding the "playlist" used by stations like KRTH. In my opinion, SoCal music radio stations are hopelessly barren of any creativity, variety, or uniqueness. In my opinion, they are banal and bland, appealing to the lowest common denominator of "listeners" they can find. A few of us here 'get it' and are fed up with the state of music radio in the SouthLand. I have found refuge, thankfully, on the Internet listening to the streams of over the air commercial radio stations from other markets (not just Internet-only and/or college/non-comm stations) that have a listening audience with an IQ above 100. If that sounds elitist, so be it.

 

[oldies76]

For the record, Oldies76, I am in your camp, especially regarding the "playlist" used by stations like KRTH. In my opinion, SoCal music radio stations are hopelessly barren of any creativity, variety, or uniqueness. In my opinion, they are banal and bland, appealing to the lowest common denominator of "listeners" they can find. A few of us here 'get it' and are fed up with the state of music radio in the SouthLand. I have found refuge, thankfully, on the Internet listening to the streams of over the air commercial radio stations from other markets (not just Internet-only and/or college/non-comm stations) that have a listening audience with an IQ above 100. If that sounds elitist, so be it.

Thanks for your insights SuperRadioFan.

 

[TheBigA]

In my opinion, they are banal and bland, appealing to the lowest common denominator of "listeners" they can find.

Brings to mind P.T. Barnum and many other very successful showmen. One never went broke underestimating the intelligence.... you know the rest.

Look...OTA radio isn't for everyone. It's MOSTLY for everyone, but we all know there will be a percentage that we'll never win over. We know and accept that. If I wanted to do high brow programming, there are lots of places for me to do it and get a .5 share. But that wasn't my career goal when I was 12 years old. So I stick with doing banal, bland programming that appeals to the lowest common denominator. It's made me a great living, and I wouldn't change a thing. The great thing about the media world today is there's a radio station for everyone. Lots of choices. People didn't have that 45 years ago. They were willing to listen to 20 song playlists over and over with 18 minutes of commercials, and even sat through news on the hour with the hope of hearing their favorite song. No one has to do that any more.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

I have found OTA radio can be for people who share my musical preferences, those OTA just aren't in the LA-OC market. They ARE in SF, Boston, New York City suburbs, Portland, Indianapolis, and several other big markets. Plenty of smaller markets also serve it up nicely as well as offering a nice mix of classic hits/oldies.

 

[davideduardo]

I have found OTA radio can be for people who share my musical preferences, those OTA just aren't in the LA-OC market. They ARE in SF, Boston, New York City suburbs, Portland, Indianapolis, and several other big markets. Plenty of smaller markets also serve it up nicely as well as offering a nice mix of classic hits/oldies.

Whenever I see this kind of comment on the LA radio scene, I feel I have to repeat this:

LA is approaching 45% Hispanic. it is 8% African American and 12% Asian. There are about 10% to 12% first generation immigrants who are neither Asian nor Hispanic such as Persians, Russians, etc. So nearly 80% of the market is composed of groups that change the nature of the successful formats and even influence the tastes of the remaining "non-Hispanic whites" in the metro.

Of course, when it comes to classic hits, what this means is that the background and life experience of an enormous percentage of the market will determine that a quite different set of "oldies" be played as it's quite hard to find common-experience hits with a population that is so diverse.