The "No Man's Land" Between L.A. and the I.E.

[emailfailed]

As noted in the KSPA thread the area around Pomona-Ontario-Fontana is not counted in either the L.A. or Inland Empire markets.

With a population around 800,000 why would either market not "count" that area?

It goes almost without question if the area was added to the I.E. market their market rank would move up a couple places, but ostensibly I wonder, if the L.A. market "accepted" that area, would it boost L.A. to being the number one market?

Personally it seems the area in question has more in common with the Inland Empire, socially and culturally, than with the L.A. area.

Will it ever be counted in the L.A. or I.E. market?

 

[davideduardo]

Will it ever be counted in the L.A. or I.E. market?

Not likely.

If it is included in the IE, it dilutes the IE stations as it is so close to the LA market that there is more LA listening. And LA does not want it, as including the IE listening would lower shares, and quite a few LA stations don't do too well in that direction.

LA is more than 4 million short of equalling NY in population, so there is no market rank objective in this.

 

[jonbruce]

I recall David mentioning that the I.E. stations requested this because it was discovered that over 80 percent of radio listeners there like the L.A. stations. Pomona, in Los Angeles county is in the L.A. market.

 

[justpassingthough]

Maybe in the distant future, and this is just thinking out loud here, they will join the Riverside- San Bernardino market. Since those cities are essentially bedroom communities straddling two metropolitan areas, the likelihood of commuting to work in another area such as the San Gabriel Valley, downtown LA or even Orange County remains prevalent. Commuting tends to take away from the since of "community" that one derives from living, working and shopping in a common area.

Perhaps once more industry, more services and more jobs are in the Inland Empire and there is less commuting to out of market areas for work, the "no man's land" will become more unified with the remainder of Riverside-San Bernardino.

Not that we can compare this in terms of radio, but twenty years ago, the majority of people in Orange County worked outside of the country (largely in LA County). Eventually, as companies located in OC, this shifted and now there are more people coming into rather than leaving Orange County for work. A similar trend is bound to happen in the IE, as well.

 

[BMedina]

I listen to 1220 AM in Pomona which carries LA's KWKW 1330's ESPN Deportes programming. I'm guessing this station does not count toward L.A. or I.E. ratings.

 

[emailfailed]

David Eduardo- "LA is more than 4 million short of equalling NY in population, so there is no market rank objective in this."

I should have known better of New York's numbers, I don't know why I thought other wise. That is why I learn, yet again, proofreading is your friend.

Anyways...

If you, or anybody knows, how far east, south and north does the Riverside-San Bernardino market stretch? Such as is Victorville considered to be a separate market?

As well, is Temecula apart of the IE market, or considered apart of the San Diego market?

I am assuming there is a lot of "no man's lands" out there with, in some areas, three markets that can be heard.

 

[davideduardo]

If you, or anybody knows, how far east, south and north does the Riverside-San Bernardino market stretch? Such as is Victorville considered to be a separate market?

As well, is Temecula apart of the IE market, or considered apart of the San Diego market?

The SD market is exclusively SD County.

http://www.davidgleason.com/Research_Arbitron.htm and click on MSA Map in PDF Format on the left menu, and the map should appear... it can be expanded until you see the desired detail.

The IE market or MSA is just the core Riverside / San Berdoo / Redlands / Moreno Valley area up to Arrowhead and Adelanto, East to Banning, south to Hemet and San Jacinto.

There is another no-man's land below Hemet up to the SD County line. There is also another one in the S/SE portion of Ventura County.

THe Coachella Valley is a separate market, as is the VIctory Valley high desert area.

I am assuming there is a lot of "no man's lands" out there with, in some areas, three markets that can be heard.

I can think of no other market than LA where there are areas on the other side of the market borders that don't belong to an adjacent market. Likely there are a few, but this LA case is rather unusual.

 

[davideduardo]

I listen to 1220 AM in Pomona which carries LA's KWKW 1330's ESPN Deportes programming. I'm guessing this station does not count toward L.A. or I.E. ratings.

Pomona is in LA County. All LA County, including the high desert part, is in the LA metro (along with OC)

 

[BMedina]

Good to know. I enjoy that station.

 

[justpassingthough]

I am assuming there is a lot of "no man's lands" out there with, in some areas, three markets that can be heard.

I can think of no other market than LA where there are areas on the other side of the market borders that don't belong to an adjacent market. Likely there are a few, but this LA case is rather unusual.
[/quote]

Ah, the price we pay for living with such beautiful topographical variation. I guess this just feeds into outsiders' perspectives of LA as just one huge collection of suburbs with no beginning and no end.

 

[BMedina]

I am assuming there is a lot of "no man's lands" out there with, in some areas, three markets that can be heard.

I can think of no other market than LA where there are areas on the other side of the market borders that don't belong to an adjacent market. Likely there are a few, but this LA case is rather unusual.

Ah, the price we pay for living with such beautiful topographical variation. I guess this just feeds into outsiders' perspectives of LA as just one huge collection of suburbs with no beginning and no end.
[/quote]

I was listening to Doug McIntyre's show the other morning on KABC and he had a caller from Long Island,NY "isn't L.A. just a bunch of suburbs?" he asked. Doug explained that because we live on an active fault zone that is why it's not like East Coast cities. Very true.

 

[justpassingthough]

I am assuming there is a lot of "no man's lands" out there with, in some areas, three markets that can be heard.

I can think of no other market than LA where there are areas on the other side of the market borders that don't belong to an adjacent market. Likely there are a few, but this LA case is rather unusual.

Ah, the price we pay for living with such beautiful topographical variation. I guess this just feeds into outsiders' perspectives of LA as just one huge collection of suburbs with no beginning and no end.

I was listening to Doug McIntyre's show the other morning on KABC and he had a caller from Long Island,NY "isn't L.A. just a bunch of suburbs?" he asked. Doug explained that because we live on an active fault zone that is why it's not like East Coast cities. Very true.
[/quote]

Off topic, but outsiders don't know what they're talking about. While its true that the city of LA is far less dense than other large cities, the consolidated metro statistical area is the MOST dense CMSA in the country, even ahead of New York. So we aren't a collection of endless suburbs as much as we are a collection of multiple metropolitan areas that flow together, overlap, or create a "no man's land" as we have been referring to it in this thread.