The old KRTH

[michael hagerty]

I'm only saying that self-indulgence cuts both ways. As someone recently quipped, and I wish I can remember who said it, but K-Earth still does "Million Dollar Weekends," everytime they blow out their on-air staff.

Point being, K-Earth is still money ahead. Hosting a weekend reunion special may or may not (I'm betting not) cause them to lose a few dollars, but so what. That little bit of self-indulgence on the programming side helps ingratiate themselves with their listening base and bolsters their ego a bit.

So this should be their logic?:

"Let's deliberately lose money doing something we don't need to do that there is no reason to believe will resonate with our current listeners, who are responding just fine to what we do now, which makes us money."

 

[Vinnie Daniels]

bringing back some old-timer that today's audience has zero connection with?

Oh puh-leeeeze. No connection. Is that a serious question? More than Brian Beirne, this is "Mr. Rock & Roll" we're talking about. An institution. Has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. 29 years in the same time slot at the same station. That alone has never been done before in Los Angeles. He's only been off the air since before 2005. Almost 12 years. You telling me that people have aged so much that they're memories are gone and they don't remember him anymore? He's one of the few whose voice still has that same quality he always had. He's exactly the drawing card that would make this a weekend special that would do the opposite of what most of you claim would drive away listeners.

 

[KayJayJay]

I defer to Mr. Hagerty who deftly wrote: "I seriously doubt there are that many listeners to KRTH in the demo today who ever heard Brian Beirne."

Even if today's KRTH demo knows the name Brian Beirne, there is a difference between knowing that name and having any emotional connection with that name or desire to hear him as a host.

 

[davideduardo]

Oh puh-leeeeze. No connection. Is that a serious question? More than Brian Beirne, this is "Mr. Rock & Roll" we're talking about. An institution. Has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. 29 years in the same time slot at the same station. That alone has never been done before in Los Angeles. He's only been off the air since before 2005. Almost 12 years. You telling me that people have aged so much that they're memories are gone and they don't remember him anymore? He's one of the few whose voice still has that same quality he always had. He's exactly the drawing card that would make this a weekend special that would do the opposite of what most of you claim would drive away listeners.

With all due respects, Mr. Veirne was on a KRTH that cumed almost entirely persons over 45, and which was top-heavy with 55+. After 12 years have passed with his voice not being heard, nearly everyone who might remember him is over 55. For the current target, he is totally unknown.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I defer to Mr. Hagerty who deftly wrote: "I seriously doubt there are that many listeners to KRTH in the demo today who ever heard Brian Beirne."

Even if today's KRTH audience knows the name Brian Beirne, there is a difference between knowing that name and having any connection with that name.

I gotta say the arguments you guys are making are getting more and more tenuous. I agree, nobody knows who Brian Beirne "Mr. Rock and Roll" is these days and very few did even when he was on the air. I know because I am a grown up rock and pop music radio geek. A salute to him would be a great idea and the three dozen people out there like me would probably tune in and enjoy very much. For everyone else, it would be an absolute turn off. If you are in the business like BigA, David E. and Michael are, then you know what a challenge it is just to get listeners to find and then use your station. Every time someone tunes you out, it is a missed opportunity to make money. You definitely can't send them for the exits in mass with a show like that.

The Sound thing was much different. The Sound knows that a large % of its audience once listened to KMET, is very positively sentimental to the old Mighty Met (Whoo-Ya!), and they still play much of the same music that KMET played. The Sound has essentially aged with KMET's audience. KRTH has a much different challenge, which is to be relevant to a demo that changes very quickly, and that demo is much more broadly based than former rock listeners. They encompass the pop world too, which means they need to be much more focused on the masses.

Hey, I just had an idea. Maybe since the Brian Bierne salute would be useful to so few listeners, they can call it some sort of public affairs programming and air it at 6:00 am on Sunday morning where it can't hurt the station any more than any of that other stuff that runs then.

 

[davideduardo]

If some deep dime a dozen voice reading "Come to McDonalds and buy our hamburgers. Don't like beef? We have fish sandwiches too." worked, you'd have never heard the words "you deserve a break today."

You are looking at the creative side. I think BigA is talking about the media buying side.

 

[davideduardo]

That's not asking that successful station to change their format. In fact, it's to shine a spotlight on themselves to show listeners what made them so successful. Yes, bring Jhani Kaye on too.

Radio stations are not museums, and there are no on-air displays of a station's past.

That is because stations try to keep the age target the same, whether it be 18-34 or 35-54 or whatever. Going back to voices and programming that appealed to your listeners 10, 20 or more years in the past is not appealing to today's listeners.

And most important, they don't care about a station's past. They care about the song on the air right now. And if they don't like it, they change stations. And sometimes they don't come back if it happens often enough.[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[oldies76]

Please. Hold to your rose colored idea that Mr. Hall and Mr. Hamilton were somehow creative geniuses. The rest of us will go on knowing that there is very little new under the sun and that creatively those weekends you loved were little more than a derivative of concepts others in radio had created fifty years earlier. Were either to post here, I strongly suspect they'd thank you for your support and admiration but also admit to very much the same.

Did you listen to KRTH in the 80's? Did you ever tune into a weekend special then? Do you even know what I'm referring to here? It was ONE OF A KIND programming that no one does today, no one! Well, except for the occasional one on WCBS or WOGL. Coming out of an adult contemp format and into oldies, they tried something new and many of those songs and Johnny Mann jingles are based on the golden KHJ days which fit perfectly into those presentations that were abruptly cancelled in 1991 for some reason. Yes, it began in 1978 and ended 13 years later. But my point is that this station did it for 13 years, which means there was appeal for those various specials to be repeated year after year...and several times a year at that. If people complained, if ratings dropped significantly, if there was backlash against their usual music rotation, then things would have turned out different then. Bob Hamilton and Phil Hall created this time in KRTH's history were one could essentially listen to the history of rock and roll (L.A. style) over four days, or play an A to Z that lasted a weekend. They are geniuses because they utilized the older KHJ / KFWB Fab40 format and presented it 20-25 years later in the 80's and it worked. Ratings may have fallen at times, but I seriously doubt you can point the finger to one holiday weekend or one particular song, played ONCE a year. Many other factors can reduce ratings...and frankly, since this is 30 years ago, I doubt anyone can point to the exact causes.

Now today, the same thing can happen in 2016, utilizing sources to give the new demos something to listen to, besides your run-of-the-mill everyday presentations.......that frankly can stagnate after a while. I'm all for the 90's on KRTH....but have fun with it, for pete's sake.

 

[KayJayJay]

You are looking at the creative side. I think BigA is talking about the media buying side.

My first reply was based in the use of the word "creativity" focused on the programming side of radio. It would seem logical that further discussion would continue to focus on things aural. Yet, obviously, Mr. Eduardo is correct.

 

[oldies76]

Oh puh-leeeeze. No connection. Is that a serious question? More than Brian Beirne, this is "Mr. Rock & Roll" we're talking about. An institution. Has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. 29 years in the same time slot at the same station. That alone has never been done before in Los Angeles. He's only been off the air since before 2005. Almost 12 years. You telling me that people have aged so much that they're memories are gone and they don't remember him anymore? He's one of the few whose voice still has that same quality he always had. He's exactly the drawing card that would make this a weekend special that would do the opposite of what most of you claim would drive away listeners.

Yup, a true legend. Frankly there's no one like him today with such knowledge and a 40,000 record collection (besides Joel Whitburn and Fred Bronson), which during that time, he played himself on the air. I mean, who plays their own records on air today? 29 years at one station? No one today...or maybe ever will hold a candle to that accomplishment. KRTH should hold some tribute to his legacy and others. That's what companies do. I wonder what KRTH will do in 2022 for their 50th, if they make it that far?

 

[michael hagerty]

Creativity is not the actual special at hand, but the ideas the PD's come up with that change the mood of a station and connect to its listeners and offer variety. Playing songs in chronological order is not creative....anyone can do that. It doesn't matter who listens to it, because weekend shows rank low in listenership anyways. The IDEA of doing that from a PD's standpoint, in this case, geniuses Phil Hall and Bob Hamilton, and then being successful for 13 years in a row is my point. Listeners enjoyed it and were very disappointed when they were cancelled after 1990. They were known as a "Southern California's Music Tradition". THAT'S creativity. Today's KRTH is not creative. Do you see the difference or do I need to explain it again?

You need to re-think it. Listeners go to a station because it delivers the mood they want from it. An idea from a PD to change the mood of a station is destructive, not creative.

 

[michael hagerty]

Oh puh-leeeeze. No connection. Is that a serious question? More than Brian Beirne, this is "Mr. Rock & Roll" we're talking about. An institution. Has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. 29 years in the same time slot at the same station. That alone has never been done before in Los Angeles. He's only been off the air since before 2005. Almost 12 years. You telling me that people have aged so much that they're memories are gone and they don't remember him anymore? He's one of the few whose voice still has that same quality he always had. He's exactly the drawing card that would make this a weekend special that would do the opposite of what most of you claim would drive away listeners.

Let's do the math:

KRTH wants 45-year-old listeners.

Brian's been off the air almost 12 years. So our target was 33. Not many of those listening to what was a heavily 50-plus KRTH with some of the lowest ratings in its history back in '05. And if we're only going back to his last year on the air, there's not a lot of exposure to remember him by.

So let's turn the Wayback Machine to 1996. KRTH's firing on all cylinders. Big ratings, good times. Except now, our target was 25 and there were even fewer of those listening to KRTH. Lotta 50-year-olds, though. They'd remember him. Trouble is....now they're 70.

See the problem here?

 

[oldies76]

An idea from a PD to change the mood of a station is destructive, not creative.

But.......it worked. 13 years is not a fluke. It only ended in 1990 when Mike Phillips cleaned house. Can you seriously point the finger strictly to weekend specials that caused the ratings collapse in 1989 & 1990? You certainly can't say that for 1988 to 1986 period when Phil took over. Ratings went up in 1986 when A/C was eliminated. People wanted oldies (specials were a bonus), not currents.

 

[michael hagerty]

Oh puh-leeeeze. No connection. Is that a serious question? More than Brian Beirne, this is "Mr. Rock & Roll" we're talking about. An institution. Has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. 29 years in the same time slot at the same station. That alone has never been done before in Los Angeles.

Minor point: It was done before. Dick Whittinghill at KMPC, who did 30 years in the same time slot at the same station. Star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Did morning drive, so reached a bunch more people than Brian in 9-noon.

 

[davideduardo]

About a year ago I received an invite from the Sound to take part in a music focus group to be held on a Saturday in Pasadena. I enthusiastically accepted right away even though my personality is such that I am the last type of person who would normally give up their hard-earned Saturday to help them focus their playlist, but (1)I wanted to get a first hand view into how the test was performed in person and (2) I wanted to be that "guy" who does exactly what you described. Even if I answered the questions "truthfully" I would still probably be considered an "outlier", but I was going to go for the gusto a vote down every Who, Pink Floyd, Aerosmith and the rest they tested whether I liked them or not and vote up anything that was not already on the playlist or some otherwise novelty record. But as Billy Joel sings, something happened on the way to that place. My second invitation, you know the one where they actually tell you exactly where and when it was, got "lost" in the electronic email. I even emailed them asking why I was omitted since I live nearby and "as a fan of the station, I really wanted to participate". No response.

How did they know? I didn't tell anyone, not even Mrs. Flipper my plans. Foiled Again! Somehow they knew. I don't know how they knew, but I am convinced they knew:

"He is the oddball. Not worth the invite, we'll just be cleansing his data later".

I'll never know just how they knew, just like I'll never know how they got my name and mailing address when I had never given it to them in the first year they were on.

A professionally done music test is not a focus group and is totally blind. The name of the station is never revealed (although sometimes at the end someone from the station will say "Thanks for being here. This event was done by Mix 106 so that we can provide you with better music and here are some mugs and T-shirts for you to take home").

A music test takes about 2 1/2 hours to 3 hours. There are no verbal responses from the group, which can range from 50 to 100 persons... the moderator explains how to score and the participants rate each song they hear.

Here is an example of a music test: http://www.americanradiohistory.com/research_AMT.htm

A focus group is usually around 10 to 12 persons. A moderator starts a discussion of radio usage, and follows an outline to delve into morning shows, music blends, station perceptions, etc. The moderator elicits group participation, calling on each individual to participate and often asking for a show of hands for "like-dislike" questions.

The intent of a focus group is not to determine individual songs to play. It's intended to determine areas for improvement or opportunities in a general context, without specific song mentions. A discussing might involve "Less Van Halen and more Aerosmith" or something like that, but those are general texture questions.

A focus group can be set as a "favored listener" situation where the station recruits (or pays to recruit) its listeners and the station is identified, set in a "help us get even better" context. Or it can be blind, in which case discussions are generally about comparisons between several competitors.

It sounds like you were invited to a focus group. The lack of callback may simply have been that the recruiter exceeded the quota in your demographic cell, or for some other reason you did not "open the gate" to be called back.

 

[michael hagerty]

...those presentations that were abruptly cancelled in 1991 for some reason.

"For some reason"? Let me help you with your short-term memory loss. I posted this about six hours ago:

1988: 3.5 share---tied for 7th with KTNQ.
1989: 2.9 share---#10 station in the market.
1990: 1.9 share---tied for 20th (yes, 20th) with KODJ.
1991: 3.8 share---#6 station in the market.
1992: 4.0 share---#4 station in the market.

If it ever did work....and given that Bob and Phil each topped out at tied for 7th and went a whole lot lower, there's no evidence to argue that it did....it had stopped. There was a time when recycling KFWB and KHJ elements might have some traction in L.A. But KFWB was big from 1958 to 1963 and the era of KHJ that KRTH tried to echo was 1965 to 1972. Is it any surprise that the tank was dry by the mid-late 80s?

 

[davideduardo]

But.......it worked. 13 years is not a fluke. It only ended in 1990 when Mike Phillips cleaned house. Can you seriously point the finger strictly to weekend specials that caused the ratings collapse in 1989 & 1990? You certainly can't say that for 1988 to 1986 period when Phil took over. Ratings went up in 1986 when A/C was eliminated. People wanted oldies (specials were a bonus), not currents.

The whole station needed a refresh, as the concept needed updating. KRTH has had to snap itself into the present several times in its history, generally to turn around aging of the core or an overall decline in listenership.

 

[michael hagerty]

Yup, a true legend. Frankly there's no one like him today with such knowledge and a 40,000 record collection (besides Joel Whitburn and Fred Bronson), which during that time, he played himself on the air. I mean, who plays their own records on air today? 29 years at one station? No one today...or maybe ever will hold a candle to that accomplishment. KRTH should hold some tribute to his legacy and others. That's what companies do. I wonder what KRTH will do in 2022 for their 50th, if they make it that far?

I liked Brian on the air. I've met Brian. He's a nice guy. But let's get real. Any audience he had isn't part of the KRTH audience today. Want a tribute? Do one for the men and women who've made KRTH a powerhouse today.

 

[davideduardo]

I wonder what KRTH will do in 2022 for their 50th, if they make it that far?

That is only the 50's under those calls... the station goes much farther back in time.

In any case, if they are smart they will ignore any celebrations. I was interim PD for a certain #1 LA station when it had, IIRC, its 35th anniversary in format. Sales wanted to do a concert and celebration. I did not want to remind listeners that the station was "old". We did nothing except thank listeners for "another year of playing your favorite songs". No mention of which year... just a chance to thank listeners and tell them that we cared.

 

[davideduardo]

Please. Hold to your rose colored idea that Mr. Hall and Mr. Hamilton were somehow creative geniuses. The rest of us will go on knowing that there is very little new under the sun and that creatively those weekends you loved were little more than a derivative of concepts others in radio had created fifty years earlier. Were either to post here, I strongly suspect they'd thank you for your support and admiration but also admit to very much the same.

Weekend specials were often a device used to distract listener attention from the fact that the best talent was not on the air on the weekends. Many of those specials were, in fact, voice tracked or partially voice tracked.

This is no different than the hundreds of stations that used Tom Rounds's American Top 40 to fill in on Sunday morning with a professional product instead of a weak-sounding part-timer.