Even as directional as 830 is, like you say, it's the metro that counts, and WTRU covers the whole market better than WSJS and WSML combined do, day and night. I know Truth wouldn't want to do it... a lot would have to change before they gave up that signal.
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It would be a long time before I would move from 600. Maybe simulcast on 830 in place of 1200. Turn 1200 into a Greesnboro leaning station (maybe Dusty Dunn in mornings). Would never work without a studio in Greensboro. Problem is the WSJS core is locked in to 600 - hell, they still think channel 12 is WSJS TV! 
It's all about marketing. Get the word out everywhere. A frequency change can be done beautifully if done right.
Making WSML a Greensboro station isn't really a sustainable idea. The night signal blasts entirely in the wrong direction at night. If you're not going to cover the city you're targetting 24/7, you're going to have massive problems. Just look at WYSR.
I'd much rather see WSML target Burlington and Alamance County. If you're thinking of switching out 1200 with another station for the purpose of continuing the WSJS simulcast and targetting the 'Boro with it, I'd look more toward buying WKEW or, even more preferable, WWBG. The idea of simulcasting on 830 could work, but I think using 600 just for the heritage of the frequency would be a waste of money, as 830 covers the area 600 does just as well. Sure, the coverage into Yadkin County isn't the same, but as we've said before, it's the metro that counts in this format.
Making WSML a Greensboro station isn't really a sustainable idea. The night signal blasts entirely in the wrong direction at night. If you're not going to cover the city you're targetting 24/7, you're going to have massive problems. Just look at WYSR.
I'd much rather see WSML target Burlington and Alamance County. If you're thinking of switching out 1200 with another station for the purpose of continuing the WSJS simulcast and targetting the 'Boro with it, I'd look more toward buying WKEW or, even more preferable, WWBG. The idea of simulcasting on 830 could work, but I think using 600 just for the heritage of the frequency would be a waste of money, as 830 covers the area 600 does just as well. Sure, the coverage into Yadkin County isn't the same, but as we've said before, it's the metro that counts in this format.
While the metro is important to news-talk, the western counties (Yadkin, etc) are crucual to WSJS's financial future. You hear very little advertising from Greensboro businesses (because their sales people don't know how to get to Guilford County). While the audience is important, the real revenue comes from Forsyth and those who shop in Forsyth. It is not a ratings based sale which is why the station can rank seventh or eighth in the ratings and second or third in the revenue! It just kills those FMs to see the AM make some much money!
You forget the upgrade potential of the 1200 signal. The right owner could make a deal with Clear Channel to allow the upgrade to go through and a transmitter move closer to Guilford would help. Not saying it is likely to happen, but it could!
Greensboro does need it's own n-t station. SJS is still very WS centered even though they try not to be. ZTK is too busy trying to serve two markets and be a regional station.
You forget the upgrade potential of the 1200 signal. The right owner could make a deal with Clear Channel to allow the upgrade to go through and a transmitter move closer to Guilford would help. Not saying it is likely to happen, but it could!
Greensboro does need it's own n-t station. SJS is still very WS centered even though they try not to be. ZTK is too busy trying to serve two markets and be a regional station.
Your first point is dead-on. I guess I'm more used to coming at the idea from the point of view where metros have a denser population between the two (or more) major cities. Part of the reason, I think, for the western focus of WSJS is because... well, that's the way it's always been. The Journal has always covered the western counties, as have WXII and WSJS (which isn't surprising since the latter two sprang from the paper). Greensboro outlets have always covered... well, just Greensboro (not even including High Point). While I appreciate localism, I think it's time to abandon the city mentality, as doing so would probably go a long way in solving a lot of the regions problems... both in media and otherwise. But as long as people see things the way they have been, that's not going to happen. That being the case, local news/talkers having a highly local focus is probably the way to go. I just see it as a bit of a waste, since it would be much more economical to cover the whole metro with one station rather than have three doing the exact same thing.
Of course, the decision to keep the #2 talker in the country on the market's smallest talk station still baffles me, but that's another topic altogether.
1200 could be upgraded, but then we're talking about not only new studios and a new transmitter site, we're also talking about further alienating Alamance County. I see Burlington, Graham... that whole area... as it's own little metro caught in between the Triad and the Triangle, and they have very few local options (as what they've had in the past has been taken away from them). While the move is possible, it's not very economical, and it leaves a community that's well deserving of it's own stations with even less of a choice than they have now.
I liked the fact that WWBG tried to move in the direction of N/T for a while there, and I wish they had developed it further. Where they flopped was in the attempt to combine sports talk and news talk into one format... and the fact that they did so with a very small budget (at least that's the way it sounded on the air). If someone were to take that signal, WKEW or even WCOG and go news/talk with it... and push it hard in the area... it would be very successful.
I can just see it now...
Dusty Dunn in the Morning 5-9
The Max Meeks Show, 9-12 (target HP)
Rush Limbaugh 12-3
Sean Hannity 3-6 (again, restricting him to WMFR has never made sense to me)
Local news hour 6-7
Dave Ramsey on tape delay 7-10
Alan Colmes 10-1 (that would be a huge steal from ZTK)
Coast to Coast AM 1-5
Of course, the decision to keep the #2 talker in the country on the market's smallest talk station still baffles me, but that's another topic altogether.
1200 could be upgraded, but then we're talking about not only new studios and a new transmitter site, we're also talking about further alienating Alamance County. I see Burlington, Graham... that whole area... as it's own little metro caught in between the Triad and the Triangle, and they have very few local options (as what they've had in the past has been taken away from them). While the move is possible, it's not very economical, and it leaves a community that's well deserving of it's own stations with even less of a choice than they have now.
I liked the fact that WWBG tried to move in the direction of N/T for a while there, and I wish they had developed it further. Where they flopped was in the attempt to combine sports talk and news talk into one format... and the fact that they did so with a very small budget (at least that's the way it sounded on the air). If someone were to take that signal, WKEW or even WCOG and go news/talk with it... and push it hard in the area... it would be very successful.
I can just see it now...
Dusty Dunn in the Morning 5-9
The Max Meeks Show, 9-12 (target HP)
Rush Limbaugh 12-3
Sean Hannity 3-6 (again, restricting him to WMFR has never made sense to me)
Local news hour 6-7
Dave Ramsey on tape delay 7-10
Alan Colmes 10-1 (that would be a huge steal from ZTK)
Coast to Coast AM 1-5
Josh, you have obviously give it some thought.
The relocation/upgrade for 1200 wouldn't be as expensive as you think. The current transmitter site has pretty good real estate value. Located on the river and lots of residential development around it. Land could be sold for a pretty penny and help finance new site.
New studio not entirely necessary. Since your proposal has considerable syndication, could easily be run out of WS studio (as it is now). Only use a small, storefront, studio for morning shows. Don't need much gear - a small Mackie mixer, a codec of some kind and a monitor. Everything else comes through WS - producer, phone calls, etc. News could also originate in WS.
Now, let's talk about the metro a minute! It was a figment of the chamber's of commerce imagination back in the day. They had this vision of communities working and growing together and while there is some degree of that today, there is still very little the cities have in commong. The trading areas are separately defined. Everyone has their own mall, theaters, restaurants, baseball teams, etc. There is little you can get in Greensboro that you can't get in Winston-Salem.
The radio and TV stations contibuted to the growth of the "metro", but have done little to continue the idea. Most of the major stations are located in Greensboro, and few have any exposure in Winston-Salem. You seldom see them do remotes, and you don't hear a lot of local businesses advertising on them. Car dealers but very little else.
The TV stations try to spread their wings, but don't really succeed.
Of course, there is a great deal of political mistrust among the city leaders and they are all more concerned about protecting their turft than about growing together.
That's a whole new discussion!
Here's another thought - what are the prospects for local "internet" radio. Bandwidth is cheap. Streaming is getting cheaper. Is there a day when the hometown station will be internet based? I can hear Dusty doing his show from his home, on his own Internet station. Technology is there.
You mentioned marketing in a previous post - what you say is very true but the reality is that Big Radio has pretty much wiped out marketing dollars for their stations! It is harder and harder to get marketing money and it costs more to cut through the clutter.
My idea for the 600-830 simulcast would be to transition 600 to all sports over a period of a couple of years and be pure n-t on 830. Probably share an AM show, maybe even mid-day (Rush). The split for PM drive and do a sports show on 600 and Hannity on 830. Nights would be play by play or local sports call in shows.
Oh well, dreams are fun!
The relocation/upgrade for 1200 wouldn't be as expensive as you think. The current transmitter site has pretty good real estate value. Located on the river and lots of residential development around it. Land could be sold for a pretty penny and help finance new site.
New studio not entirely necessary. Since your proposal has considerable syndication, could easily be run out of WS studio (as it is now). Only use a small, storefront, studio for morning shows. Don't need much gear - a small Mackie mixer, a codec of some kind and a monitor. Everything else comes through WS - producer, phone calls, etc. News could also originate in WS.
Now, let's talk about the metro a minute! It was a figment of the chamber's of commerce imagination back in the day. They had this vision of communities working and growing together and while there is some degree of that today, there is still very little the cities have in commong. The trading areas are separately defined. Everyone has their own mall, theaters, restaurants, baseball teams, etc. There is little you can get in Greensboro that you can't get in Winston-Salem.
The radio and TV stations contibuted to the growth of the "metro", but have done little to continue the idea. Most of the major stations are located in Greensboro, and few have any exposure in Winston-Salem. You seldom see them do remotes, and you don't hear a lot of local businesses advertising on them. Car dealers but very little else.
The TV stations try to spread their wings, but don't really succeed.
Of course, there is a great deal of political mistrust among the city leaders and they are all more concerned about protecting their turft than about growing together.
That's a whole new discussion!
Here's another thought - what are the prospects for local "internet" radio. Bandwidth is cheap. Streaming is getting cheaper. Is there a day when the hometown station will be internet based? I can hear Dusty doing his show from his home, on his own Internet station. Technology is there.
You mentioned marketing in a previous post - what you say is very true but the reality is that Big Radio has pretty much wiped out marketing dollars for their stations! It is harder and harder to get marketing money and it costs more to cut through the clutter.
My idea for the 600-830 simulcast would be to transition 600 to all sports over a period of a couple of years and be pure n-t on 830. Probably share an AM show, maybe even mid-day (Rush). The split for PM drive and do a sports show on 600 and Hannity on 830. Nights would be play by play or local sports call in shows.
Oh well, dreams are fun!
XTalker said:
Good points... and as long as they worked hard to promote the station (which, as you pointed out later in your post, the companies certainly wouldn't give them much money to do), I think they could just have a huge success on their hands!
Just in the three short years I lived in the Triad, I could easily see how fragmented it truly is. I moved from Fort Lauderdale in 2000... that's where I get my view of a truly unified metropolitan area (and I've learned since that it's a very rare occurence!). I think the Triad was put on the right track, but for various reasons (most of which you mentioned), the engine stopped running.
I've been saying that's the way the whole industry is going since the mid-'90s. In fact, http://theradioblog.blogspot.com/2006/07/music-downloads-wifi-radio-and.html"]I just wrote a whole post on my blog about the subject[/url] (one of several).
Agreed, as I pointed out above. I think that's one of the biggest problems the industry is facing today.
I think that's a great idea, and knowing that part of the deal, I'd be all for it. Again, though, as we've both said, whoever buys WSJS/WSML and WMFR are going to need a heckuva lot of luck to convince Truth to give up their prized 830!
I just wish some of mine would come true!
Winston-Salem would likely have to take back its title of Triad's largest city. Winston-Salem is the fastest growing city in the Triad and is closing in on G-boro for the largest title. In the 50's and 60's everything leaned Winston-Salem and Winston-Salem was the bigger city. If Winston-Salem became the Triad's largest city again, the market would change from the Greensboro market to the Winston-Salem market again. This is important in this day of centralized radio, where a large shareholder owned corporation over a thousand miles away calls the shots. You can see it on this forum too. R-I knows nothing about the Triad. They just see "Greensboro" market. I tried to talk the Radio-Info admins into changing it to Triad, but they ignored the request. With the new software it does say Winston-Salem in small type below Raleigh-Greensboro though. TV gives us the best two examples of seeing the market as one city and as seeing the market as a 12-county "Triad" metro area. Fox 8 WGHP is by far the best at promoting the Triad as one region. WFMY 2 is the worst and frequently say they are Greensboro and act like the rest of the Triad doesn't exist. I do believe in Radio the problem is seeing the market falsely as Greensboro and not Triad. Look at Fox 8 in the ratings and you can see the power of viewing the market as one place. It's odd seeing a station with deep roots in Winston-Salem and W-S as its COL say it's Greensboro and not say a word about W-S.
On the bright side, Winston-Salem is like an unserved market for anyone looking to base their operations there and Winston-Salem does have the Triad's largest urbanized area (third largest in the state after Charlotte and Raleigh-Cary), the largest headquarters in the Triad (3 Fortune 500's - second only to Charlotte) and a very compact metro area (75% of the Winston-Salem metro lives in Forsyth County and 50% of the metro lives inside the city limits). Winston-Salem is also core (downtown) centered. Greensboro is not (Greensboro is more suburban centered). Winston-Salem's metro area (Forsyth, Yadkin, Davie and Stokes counties) is larger than the metro areas of Mobile, Lexington (KY) and Fort Wayne and is a very under-served market for radio, with only a few AMs and non-commercials. That's like a dream come true. You can see an urban in Greensboro that screams Greensboro left and right and think you can't compete, but if you base your attempt in Winston-Salem and center it on Winston-Salem, you can make it work. Of course if you can see the entire 12-county metro as one, you can do very well in ratings and $$$. Look at the Fox 8 example. Instead of five small to medium sized metro areas (Winston-Salem, Greensboro-High Point, Lexington-Thomasville, Mount Airy and Burlington), it becomes one large metro area, the same size as Nashville, Louisville or Jacksonville and that is impressive.
On the bright side, Winston-Salem is like an unserved market for anyone looking to base their operations there and Winston-Salem does have the Triad's largest urbanized area (third largest in the state after Charlotte and Raleigh-Cary), the largest headquarters in the Triad (3 Fortune 500's - second only to Charlotte) and a very compact metro area (75% of the Winston-Salem metro lives in Forsyth County and 50% of the metro lives inside the city limits). Winston-Salem is also core (downtown) centered. Greensboro is not (Greensboro is more suburban centered). Winston-Salem's metro area (Forsyth, Yadkin, Davie and Stokes counties) is larger than the metro areas of Mobile, Lexington (KY) and Fort Wayne and is a very under-served market for radio, with only a few AMs and non-commercials. That's like a dream come true. You can see an urban in Greensboro that screams Greensboro left and right and think you can't compete, but if you base your attempt in Winston-Salem and center it on Winston-Salem, you can make it work. Of course if you can see the entire 12-county metro as one, you can do very well in ratings and $$$. Look at the Fox 8 example. Instead of five small to medium sized metro areas (Winston-Salem, Greensboro-High Point, Lexington-Thomasville, Mount Airy and Burlington), it becomes one large metro area, the same size as Nashville, Louisville or Jacksonville and that is impressive.
You just hit the nail directly on the head.
One of the things I've always loved about Winston-Salem (so much so that I wish I'd lived there instead of High Point) is it's centralization. Just look at the Winston-Salem skyline as compared to Greensboro's. That tells the whole story right there. There's more going on in Downtown Winston-Salem business-wise (and in just about every other way as well) than there is in Greensboro.
Take a look at individual maps of Greensboro and Winston-Salem. Downtown Greensboro is clear on the east side of the city limits. Downtown Winston-Salem, on the other hand, is smack-dab in the middle of the city.
I'm such an urban dweller ;D
I believe that at one point in time, W-S was the largest city in the state, correct? It certainly feels like the most organized city in the state to this day (even Charlotte seems to lack that "we are Charlotte" feel).
Anyway, aside from my rambling, I think that if everyone in the region dropped the whole city individuality mentality... media-wise, personally, whatever... that the area would grow a lot more easily. At the same time, that doesn't mean dropping the idea of city pride at all. It just means that if each individual city works with the other instead of secluding themselves, a lot more progress would be made.
One of the things I've always loved about Winston-Salem (so much so that I wish I'd lived there instead of High Point) is it's centralization. Just look at the Winston-Salem skyline as compared to Greensboro's. That tells the whole story right there. There's more going on in Downtown Winston-Salem business-wise (and in just about every other way as well) than there is in Greensboro.
Take a look at individual maps of Greensboro and Winston-Salem. Downtown Greensboro is clear on the east side of the city limits. Downtown Winston-Salem, on the other hand, is smack-dab in the middle of the city.
I'm such an urban dweller ;D
I believe that at one point in time, W-S was the largest city in the state, correct? It certainly feels like the most organized city in the state to this day (even Charlotte seems to lack that "we are Charlotte" feel).
Anyway, aside from my rambling, I think that if everyone in the region dropped the whole city individuality mentality... media-wise, personally, whatever... that the area would grow a lot more easily. At the same time, that doesn't mean dropping the idea of city pride at all. It just means that if each individual city works with the other instead of secluding themselves, a lot more progress would be made.
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