The Oldies Format

[JohnRadioFan]

When Braswell the other day talked about bonehead decisions by top management, I think at the top of the list, in my opinion,is what they allowed to happen to traditional oldies stations.

Let the facts speak for themselves. In markets such as Philadelphia, Boston and Miami (to use just a few examples) the ratings for oldies are solid. And more importantly, advertising revenue is solid as well. If demos skew older, so what? If the station has credability and a sales team who understand the format, the dollars will follow. About a week ago, I chatted with someone I've known at WMXJ Miami for the last 20 years and was told, once again, that they often have more advertising than they can even handle.

In a post on this board during the past week, someone mentioned that the Eagle 96.9 is just about where it was from a billing perspective when the format was oldies. That alone speaks volumes.

Back to bonehead decisions, the last time I looked at ratings for WCBS-FM in NYC, they have been at the bottom of the barrel consistantly since flipping from oldies to Jack. WABC in NYC does an oldies show now on Saturday nights and the listeners who call in are very compassionate about the format and are very resentful to what happened at CBS-FM. Listener loyalty is something that is very valuable to a stations's survival. This has been thrown away because we live in a 25-54 world. But again, if your product is good and advertisers see results, they will invest.

Back to a local Jax perspective. I think many of us just continue to be frustrated in that there was a tested and proven success story in the old Cool 96.9. We (especially me) are reminded that signal plays a big part and/or we have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. Even given that,let me blunt - Real leadership rises above adversity. In my work life, I never resorted to making excuses for performance that was not my best. Maybe that's just who I am and I expect that in others too. I know I'm in a minority here but I still say that a traditional oldies format can beat classic hits/rock or at the very least, can be at par. But you have to demonstrate a wining attitude.

With the buzz about Beatle Brunch, I have added 1010 to my AM presets. Although I have listened to the program via streaming from WMXJ on Sunday mornings since it left Jax, I'm sure I'll hear it on 1010 every once in a while. Incidently, that program is often the most listened to program on WMXJ and that has happened for over a decade. The program would have been a great addition to KOOL but then according to some of you, I'm clueless about radio so I'll just let it go.




<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by JohnRadioFan on 03/10/06 12:30 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[OldiesCat]

Oldies Format

The challenge with oldies goes a lot farther than easy-to-make "corporate bonehead decision" accusations.

The Oldies format crisis began several years ago when it became obvious the audience was indeed skewing older than the key sales demo (which is 25-54). Every year that passed, less and less Oldies audience was a part of that demo and when ad buys are largely made on 25-54 ratings, something had to give.

It's very convenient to think, "well, so what- we'll just keep on truckin' and play these great Oldies and all those advertisers will wise up and etc. etc. etc.". Problem is- that never happened, and all of a sudden, Oldies stations who were still playing 50s music found themselves viewed as too old and tired and not attractive to advertisers, to a younger generation of station GMs and to younger sellers and agency folks who view Oldies as "my parents' music", therefore not hip and cool and sexy to be on the street selling.

Those stations in Philly, Boston and Miami you mention are not experiencing solid ad revenues- they are having to work their tails off just to stay close to profitable. Others who switched may have been doing OK, as well, but were beginning to see the writing on the wall for the next several years' revenue projections. Most Oldies stations truly committed to the format have since evolved out of '50s and early '60s music into the '70s, many successfully. This should have been happening with nearly all Oldies stations throughout the '90s. Most waited too long, then they tried to fast-forward the evolution and to the core it was too abrupt and sounded like a format change. Shame on those stations who lacked the vision to see what everybody knew had to happen eventually- the boomers cell would begin to hit that 55+ age in greater numbers and ad revenues would then begin to disappear.

It's just that simple. Not saying I like or agree with how it's come down, but it is what it is.

 

[Jeff2]

Re: Oldies Format

>
> Those stations in Philly, Boston and Miami you mention are
> not experiencing solid ad revenues- they are having to work
> their tails off just to stay close to profitable.

You've hit the nail on the head with this one. Why work your a** off on an oldies/classic country/adult standards/local news-talk when you can make money (with less effort) with one or two at the most local hosts and the rest off the hard drive with those formats that appeal to 25-54. I prefer my Sirius in the car since so little of local radio is really "local" anymore.

I know it was tried and failed recently in Ohio but I still think an oldies station with the classic Top 40 format with the hourly local news, contests, jingles, and local hosts could be successful but I'm sure no one is going to invest the bucks to find out.

 

[OldiesCat]

Oldies

Yes. And, on top of that, let's face it (this will require some egos be set aside): the imported talent, especially in smaller markets, is always superior when it's imported. "Local" just for the sake of being local almost never ends up being great sounding, interesting, compelling radio.

I always get a chuckle out of the anti-corporate radio geeks who blast the larger groups for voicetracking and pre-recorded/imported programming- they threaten to abandon terrestrial radio and go Satellite. What the heck to they think Satellite radio is- almost none of it (maybd 2-3%, at most) is actually live programming and none of it is local. Amazing and very hypocritical.


>
> You've hit the nail on the head with this one. Why work
> your a** off on an oldies/classic country/adult
> standards/local news-talk when you can make money (with less
> effort) with one or two at the most local hosts and the rest
> off the hard drive with those formats that appeal to 25-54.
> I prefer my Sirius in the car since so little of local radio
> is really "local" anymore.
>
> I know it was tried and failed recently in Ohio but I still
> think an oldies station with the classic Top 40 format with
> the hourly local news, contests, jingles, and local hosts
> could be successful but I'm sure no one is going to invest
> the bucks to find out.
>

 

[bigwoody]

Re: Oldies

One market where flipping an oldies station, WTRG/Raleigh NC, to another format, in this case the more 25-54 friendly classic/adult hits, has been a failure. WTRG, at the time of the flip (Nov04), was #1 P35-64 and 45-54 (core). P25-54 it was #11. Admittedly not great. However, P25-54 it was higher in AM drive than sister classic rock WRDU.

WRVA-FM, the former WTRG, after 16 months on the air is.. #11 P25-54. And worse yet, it's making less money than WTRG did! WTRG had only one live daypart and some live weekends and got the #1 RATINGS it did. WRVA has more salaried staff and is doing less than WTRG.

Oldies was big in Raleigh. But not big enuff got mgmt...but now they've got egg on their face. Regardless, oldies as it was done, won't be back in Raleigh again.

*Curtis Media flipped it's 70s/80s classic hits to "oldies" Spring 2005. It's only a 6kw signal. It's doing well though.

 

[OldiesCat]

Oldies

One of only a few examples of where the format they left(Oldies) did better than their new one. By and large, however, most stations who dropped Oldies were revenue-challenged and their new formats are working out better now and should set them up better for the near future.


> One market where flipping an oldies station, WTRG/Raleigh
> NC, to another format, in this case the more 25-54 friendly
> classic/adult hits, has been a failure. WTRG, at the time of
> the flip (Nov04), was #1 P35-64 and 45-54 (core). P25-54 it
> was #11. Admittedly not great. However, P25-54 it was higher
> in AM drive than sister classic rock WRDU.
>
> WRVA-FM, the former WTRG, after 16 months on the air is..
> #11 P25-54. And worse yet, it's making less money than WTRG
> did! WTRG had only one live daypart and some live weekends
> and got the #1 RATINGS it did. WRVA has more salaried staff
> and is doing less than WTRG.
>
> Oldies was big in Raleigh. But not big enuff got mgmt...but
> now they've got egg on their face. Regardless, oldies as it
> was done, won't be back in Raleigh again.
>
> *Curtis Media flipped it's 70s/80s classic hits to "oldies"
> Spring 2005. It's only a 6kw signal. It's doing well though.
>

 

[Jeff2]

Re: Oldies

Speaking of oldies...I just noticed in the numbers for West Palm just released, the oldies station (105.5) had a huge increase and is #1 in 12+. It looks like they just played Under the Boardwalk and a Beatles song so guess they mix in some 60's.

Jeff

 

[JohnRadioFan]

Re: Oldies Format

Oldies Cat, I have a good deal of respect for your opinions. And understand, I'm not really disagreeing in that sales/revenue is the bread and butter of a radio station.

Perhaps my points were not as clear as they should have been. The fact that stations who attract significant numbers of listeners over 54 equates to being shun by national advertisers DOES exist. Perhaps one day, things will change because of life expectancy and maybe someone will research that good numbers of people between 55-62 actually do buy products/services after all and they will become a desirable demo. I'm not holding my breath on that one anytime soon.

What we have today are a dozen or so FMers in every market all fighting tooth and nail for every tenth of a rating in some specific demo(s) in 25-54. To me, this whole system is wacky but again, that won't change anytime soon.

The cases that I have been preaching about over and over again on this board are validated everytime the numbers are released.

Again, no surprise, WKQL is an "also-ran" station and there it will stay unless Mr. Renda and company finally recognize that they have to make tough, but necessary decisions to position the station more competively. If we want to look at sales and revenue, yeah I'm sure KOOL is outperforming the former Arrow. But what kind of benchmark is that? Arrow was a looser and didn't make money. So if they are doing even 3 times better than that, is that the best they can do? I say no. But then I believe in raising the bar.

Recognizing I am in a minority, I still feel very strongly that oldies can work and work from a revenue perspective. Programming the station correctly and having talent that complements the format are the biggest first steps. You have to know who your target audience is and program to it. When a good package is put together, it will help the sales team. Yes, it will be tough and advertising won't just walk in the door. But we saw how things worked at WKQL in the past with a tight format, talent, loyal listeners and a sales team who knew and understood the format. For a station like today's KOOL, they can be an alternative to everything else on the dial.

There's a lot of potential but they continue to blow opportunity after opportunity. Many of us see it - they don't. And there is the biggest problem.




> The challenge with oldies goes a lot farther than
> easy-to-make "corporate bonehead decision" accusations.
>
> The Oldies format crisis began several years ago when it
> became obvious the audience was indeed skewing older than
> the key sales demo (which is 25-54). Every year that
> passed, less and less Oldies audience was a part of that
> demo and when ad buys are largely made on 25-54 ratings,
> something had to give.
>
> It's very convenient to think, "well, so what- we'll just
> keep on truckin' and play these great Oldies and all those
> advertisers will wise up and etc. etc. etc.". Problem is-
> that never happened, and all of a sudden, Oldies stations
> who were still playing 50s music found themselves viewed as
> too old and tired and not attractive to advertisers, to a
> younger generation of station GMs and to younger sellers and
> agency folks who view Oldies as "my parents' music",
> therefore not hip and cool and sexy to be on the street
> selling.
>
> Those stations in Philly, Boston and Miami you mention are
> not experiencing solid ad revenues- they are having to work
> their tails off just to stay close to profitable. Others
> who switched may have been doing OK, as well, but were
> beginning to see the writing on the wall for the next
> several years' revenue projections. Most Oldies stations
> truly committed to the format have since evolved out of '50s
> and early '60s music into the '70s, many successfully. This
> should have been happening with nearly all Oldies stations
> throughout the '90s. Most waited too long, then they tried
> to fast-forward the evolution and to the core it was too
> abrupt and sounded like a format change. Shame on those
> stations who lacked the vision to see what everybody knew
> had to happen eventually- the boomers cell would begin to
> hit that 55+ age in greater numbers and ad revenues would
> then begin to disappear.
>
> It's just that simple. Not saying I like or agree with how
> it's come down, but it is what it is.
>

 

[djtommyr]

Re: Oldies Format

I do not understand this whole feeling that anyone over 54 (or 49) shuts themselves in their homes and whithers away, suddenly becoming lepers to the consumer market.

This reminds me of the equally idiotic "rural purging" at CBS, when The Beverly Hillbillies, The Ed Sullivan Show, Mayberry R.F.D., Green Acres, and Hee Haw were all cancelled at once because of the allegedly undesirable demographic they attracted.

But back to radio, there was a station I heard about a few years ago. I don't even know if it still exists: KVEN-Ventura. They claim to never say the word "oldies," never give the year the songs were released, basically just spinning the hits as if they never went out of style.

What a concept. Maybe if the remaining oldies stations, with the people who own them, run them, and sell them, quit beating folks over the heads with the idea that this is dusty old crap, someone may take an interest in the format.


> Oldies Cat, I have a good deal of respect for your opinions.
> And understand, I'm not really disagreeing in that
> sales/revenue is the bread and butter of a radio station.
>
> Perhaps my points were not as clear as they should have
> been. The fact that stations who attract significant
> numbers of listeners over 54 equates to being shun by
> national advertisers DOES exist. Perhaps one day, things
> will change because of life expectancy and maybe someone
> will research that good numbers of people between 55-62
> actually do buy products/services after all and they will
> become a desirable demo. I'm not holding my breath on that
> one anytime soon.
>
> What we have today are a dozen or so FMers in every market
> all fighting tooth and nail for every tenth of a rating in
> some specific demo(s) in 25-54. To me, this whole system is
> wacky but again, that won't change anytime soon.
>
> The cases that I have been preaching about over and over
> again on this board are validated everytime the numbers are
> released.
>
> Again, no surprise, WKQL is an "also-ran" station and there
> it will stay unless Mr. Renda and company finally recognize
> that they have to make tough, but necessary decisions to
> position the station more competively. If we want to look
> at sales and revenue, yeah I'm sure KOOL is outperforming
> the former Arrow. But what kind of benchmark is that?
> Arrow was a looser and didn't make money. So if they are
> doing even 3 times better than that, is that the best they
> can do? I say no. But then I believe in raising the bar.
>
> Recognizing I am in a minority, I still feel very strongly
> that oldies can work and work from a revenue perspective.
> Programming the station correctly and having talent that
> complements the format are the biggest first steps. You have
> to know who your target audience is and program to it. When
> a good package is put together, it will help the sales team.
> Yes, it will be tough and advertising won't just walk in
> the door. But we saw how things worked at WKQL in the past
> with a tight format, talent, loyal listeners and a sales
> team who knew and understood the format. For a station like
> today's KOOL, they can be an alternative to everything else
> on the dial.
>
> There's a lot of potential but they continue to blow
> opportunity after opportunity. Many of us see it - they
> don't. And there is the biggest problem.
>
>
>
>
> > The challenge with oldies goes a lot farther than
> > easy-to-make "corporate bonehead decision" accusations.
> >
> > The Oldies format crisis began several years ago when it
> > became obvious the audience was indeed skewing older than
> > the key sales demo (which is 25-54). Every year that
> > passed, less and less Oldies audience was a part of that
> > demo and when ad buys are largely made on 25-54 ratings,
> > something had to give.
> >
> > It's very convenient to think, "well, so what- we'll just
> > keep on truckin' and play these great Oldies and all those
>
> > advertisers will wise up and etc. etc. etc.". Problem is-
>
> > that never happened, and all of a sudden, Oldies stations
> > who were still playing 50s music found themselves viewed
> as
> > too old and tired and not attractive to advertisers, to a
> > younger generation of station GMs and to younger sellers
> and
> > agency folks who view Oldies as "my parents' music",
> > therefore not hip and cool and sexy to be on the street
> > selling.
> >
> > Those stations in Philly, Boston and Miami you mention are
>
> > not experiencing solid ad revenues- they are having to
> work
> > their tails off just to stay close to profitable. Others
> > who switched may have been doing OK, as well, but were
> > beginning to see the writing on the wall for the next
> > several years' revenue projections. Most Oldies stations
> > truly committed to the format have since evolved out of
> '50s
> > and early '60s music into the '70s, many successfully.
> This
> > should have been happening with nearly all Oldies stations
>
> > throughout the '90s. Most waited too long, then they
> tried
> > to fast-forward the evolution and to the core it was too
> > abrupt and sounded like a format change. Shame on those
> > stations who lacked the vision to see what everybody knew
> > had to happen eventually- the boomers cell would begin to
> > hit that 55+ age in greater numbers and ad revenues would
> > then begin to disappear.
> >
> > It's just that simple. Not saying I like or agree with
> how
> > it's come down, but it is what it is.
> >
>

 

[JohnRadioFan]

Re: Oldies Format

I agree but the "rules" exist and so everyone marches to the beat of that drummer. All I have been trying to say is that with all the signals jockeying for pretty much the same audience, it's not realistic to think everyone participating in that can win in that scenario.

There is room for oldies. If it's done right, there can still be inroads into an audience under 54. The music has potential to reach younger demos and satisfy the core older audience that is extremely loyal. The music of the 60s and early 70s has been played so much that even those who did not grow up when the songs were popular - know the songs. Isn't it also ironic that a good deal of advertsising actually feature songs from the oldies era. How about movies? There are tons of times I can attest to hearing oldies in box-office hits. I always thought it was a hoot to hear Will Smith in IRobot (way in the future too) grovin' to Stevie Wonder. Sorry for the digression but just trying to make the point.

The rules are ridiculous but there are those who can carve a niche out for themselves, be the best they can be and make a difference. First thing is first, corporate has to believe in the format. Cox didn't and that's why our beloved Cool 96.9 is no more. Renda I think is lukewarm to the format. But many of the stations I sited in an earlier post have management backing. That helps tons.

> I do not understand this whole feeling that anyone over 54
> (or 49) shuts themselves in their homes and whithers away,
> suddenly becoming lepers to the consumer market.
>
> This reminds me of the equally idiotic "rural purging" at
> CBS, when The Beverly Hillbillies, The Ed Sullivan Show,
> Mayberry R.F.D., Green Acres, and Hee Haw were all cancelled
> at once because of the allegedly undesirable demographic
> they attracted.
>
> But back to radio, there was a station I heard about a few
> years ago. I don't even know if it still exists:
> KVEN-Ventura. They claim to never say the word "oldies,"
> never give the year the songs were released, basically just
> spinning the hits as if they never went out of style.
>
> What a concept. Maybe if the remaining oldies stations,
> with the people who own them, run them, and sell them, quit
> beating folks over the heads with the idea that this is
> dusty old crap, someone may take an interest in the format.
>
>
> > Oldies Cat, I have a good deal of respect for your
> opinions.
> > And understand, I'm not really disagreeing in that
> > sales/revenue is the bread and butter of a radio station.
> >
> > Perhaps my points were not as clear as they should have
> > been. The fact that stations who attract significant
> > numbers of listeners over 54 equates to being shun by
> > national advertisers DOES exist. Perhaps one day, things
> > will change because of life expectancy and maybe someone
> > will research that good numbers of people between 55-62
> > actually do buy products/services after all and they will
> > become a desirable demo. I'm not holding my breath on
> that
> > one anytime soon.
> >
> > What we have today are a dozen or so FMers in every market
>
> > all fighting tooth and nail for every tenth of a rating in
>
> > some specific demo(s) in 25-54. To me, this whole system
> is
> > wacky but again, that won't change anytime soon.
> >
> > The cases that I have been preaching about over and over
> > again on this board are validated everytime the numbers
> are
> > released.
> >
> > Again, no surprise, WKQL is an "also-ran" station and
> there
> > it will stay unless Mr. Renda and company finally
> recognize
> > that they have to make tough, but necessary decisions to
> > position the station more competively. If we want to look
>
> > at sales and revenue, yeah I'm sure KOOL is outperforming
> > the former Arrow. But what kind of benchmark is that?
> > Arrow was a looser and didn't make money. So if they are
> > doing even 3 times better than that, is that the best they
>
> > can do? I say no. But then I believe in raising the bar.
>
> >
> > Recognizing I am in a minority, I still feel very strongly
>
> > that oldies can work and work from a revenue perspective.
>
> > Programming the station correctly and having talent that
> > complements the format are the biggest first steps. You
> have
> > to know who your target audience is and program to it.
> When
> > a good package is put together, it will help the sales
> team.
> > Yes, it will be tough and advertising won't just walk in
> > the door. But we saw how things worked at WKQL in the
> past
> > with a tight format, talent, loyal listeners and a sales
> > team who knew and understood the format. For a station
> like
> > today's KOOL, they can be an alternative to everything
> else
> > on the dial.
> >
> > There's a lot of potential but they continue to blow
> > opportunity after opportunity. Many of us see it - they
> > don't. And there is the biggest problem.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > The challenge with oldies goes a lot farther than
> > > easy-to-make "corporate bonehead decision" accusations.
> > >
> > > The Oldies format crisis began several years ago when it
>
> > > became obvious the audience was indeed skewing older
> than
> > > the key sales demo (which is 25-54). Every year that
> > > passed, less and less Oldies audience was a part of that
>
> > > demo and when ad buys are largely made on 25-54 ratings,
>
> > > something had to give.
> > >
> > > It's very convenient to think, "well, so what- we'll
> just
> > > keep on truckin' and play these great Oldies and all
> those
> >
> > > advertisers will wise up and etc. etc. etc.". Problem
> is-
> >
> > > that never happened, and all of a sudden, Oldies
> stations
> > > who were still playing 50s music found themselves viewed
>
> > as
> > > too old and tired and not attractive to advertisers, to
> a
> > > younger generation of station GMs and to younger sellers
>
> > and
> > > agency folks who view Oldies as "my parents' music",
> > > therefore not hip and cool and sexy to be on the street
> > > selling.
> > >
> > > Those stations in Philly, Boston and Miami you mention
> are
> >
> > > not experiencing solid ad revenues- they are having to
> > work
> > > their tails off just to stay close to profitable.
> Others
> > > who switched may have been doing OK, as well, but were
> > > beginning to see the writing on the wall for the next
> > > several years' revenue projections. Most Oldies
> stations
> > > truly committed to the format have since evolved out of
> > '50s
> > > and early '60s music into the '70s, many successfully.
> > This
> > > should have been happening with nearly all Oldies
> stations
> >
> > > throughout the '90s. Most waited too long, then they
> > tried
> > > to fast-forward the evolution and to the core it was too
>
> > > abrupt and sounded like a format change. Shame on those
>
> > > stations who lacked the vision to see what everybody
> knew
> > > had to happen eventually- the boomers cell would begin
> to
> > > hit that 55+ age in greater numbers and ad revenues
> would
> > > then begin to disappear.
> > >
> > > It's just that simple. Not saying I like or agree with
> > how
> > > it's come down, but it is what it is.
> > >
> >
>

 

[OldiesCat]

Oldies Format

And I agree with you that it CAN work. The bigger question is: will radio invest the time, resources and confidence in a format will take more to sell effectively than agency geeks looking at cost-per-point? Answer (sadly): no.
Everything's very short term, the quickest budget fix, etc.

And, really, this is just bigger than radio. Targeting Boomers in general is more and more challenging, due to the old-line beliefs (from the previous generation of Beautiful Music and Easy Listening stations targeting 50+, that audience living off their Social Securiety, etc., which has all changed).

Unless you can get radio GMs/sellers, ad agencies and the advertisers they target to suddenly wake up and understand that darling 25-54 demo they were obsessed with ten years ago is today the 35-64 cell, what we'd like to see happen never will.
>

> Recognizing I am in a minority, I still feel very strongly
> that oldies can work and work from a revenue perspective.
> Programming the station correctly and having talent that
> complements the format are the biggest first steps. You have
> to know who your target audience is and program to it. When
> a good package is put together, it will help the sales team.
> Yes, it will be tough and advertising won't just walk in
> the door. But we saw how things worked at WKQL in the past
> with a tight format, talent, loyal listeners and a sales
> team who knew and understood the format. For a station like
> today's KOOL, they can be an alternative to everything else
> on the dial.
>
> There's a lot of potential but they continue to blow
> opportunity after opportunity. Many of us see it - they
> don't. And there is the biggest problem.
>
>
>
>
> > The challenge with oldies goes a lot farther than
> > easy-to-make "corporate bonehead decision" accusations.
> >
> > The Oldies format crisis began several years ago when it
> > became obvious the audience was indeed skewing older than
> > the key sales demo (which is 25-54). Every year that
> > passed, less and less Oldies audience was a part of that
> > demo and when ad buys are largely made on 25-54 ratings,
> > something had to give.
> >
> > It's very convenient to think, "well, so what- we'll just
> > keep on truckin' and play these great Oldies and all those
>
> > advertisers will wise up and etc. etc. etc.". Problem is-
>
> > that never happened, and all of a sudden, Oldies stations
> > who were still playing 50s music found themselves viewed
> as
> > too old and tired and not attractive to advertisers, to a
> > younger generation of station GMs and to younger sellers
> and
> > agency folks who view Oldies as "my parents' music",
> > therefore not hip and cool and sexy to be on the street
> > selling.
> >
> > Those stations in Philly, Boston and Miami you mention are
>
> > not experiencing solid ad revenues- they are having to
> work
> > their tails off just to stay close to profitable. Others
> > who switched may have been doing OK, as well, but were
> > beginning to see the writing on the wall for the next
> > several years' revenue projections. Most Oldies stations
> > truly committed to the format have since evolved out of
> '50s
> > and early '60s music into the '70s, many successfully.
> This
> > should have been happening with nearly all Oldies stations
>
> > throughout the '90s. Most waited too long, then they
> tried
> > to fast-forward the evolution and to the core it was too
> > abrupt and sounded like a format change. Shame on those
> > stations who lacked the vision to see what everybody knew
> > had to happen eventually- the boomers cell would begin to
> > hit that 55+ age in greater numbers and ad revenues would
> > then begin to disappear.
> >
> > It's just that simple. Not saying I like or agree with
> how
> > it's come down, but it is what it is.
> >
>

 

[OldiesCat]

Oldies Format

Of course, they do not. That is a major misconception that's fought everyday.

But try explaining that to a 27 year old radio seller or the 29 year old Ad Agency person, or the 31 year old marketing person for X-Company-- they do not and will not get it. It's not connected with currently happening music and concerts, it's not hot, hip and sexy and to them it's "my parents' music". Definitely OFF their radar and outside their realm of interest.

> I do not understand this whole feeling that anyone over 54
> (or 49) shuts themselves in their homes and whithers away,
> suddenly becoming lepers to the consumer market.
>
> This reminds me of the equally idiotic "rural purging" at
> CBS, when The Beverly Hillbillies, The Ed Sullivan Show,
> Mayberry R.F.D., Green Acres, and Hee Haw were all cancelled
> at once because of the allegedly undesirable demographic
> they attracted.
>
> But back to radio, there was a station I heard about a few
> years ago. I don't even know if it still exists:
> KVEN-Ventura. They claim to never say the word "oldies,"
> never give the year the songs were released, basically just
> spinning the hits as if they never went out of style.
>
> What a concept. Maybe if the remaining oldies stations,
> with the people who own them, run them, and sell them, quit
> beating folks over the heads with the idea that this is
> dusty old crap, someone may take an interest in the format.
>
>
> > Oldies Cat, I have a good deal of respect for your opinions.
> > And understand, I'm not really disagreeing in that
> > sales/revenue is the bread and butter of a radio station.
> >
> > Perhaps my points were not as clear as they should have
> > been. The fact that stations who attract significant
> > numbers of listeners over 54 equates to being shun by
> > national advertisers DOES exist. Perhaps one day, things
> > will change because of life expectancy and maybe someone
> > will research that good numbers of people between 55-62
> > actually do buy products/services after all and they will
> > become a desirable demo. I'm not holding my breath on
> that one anytime soon.

 

[OldiesCat]

Oldies

That number is skewed because of their 45 days of Christmas Music. You notice they seem to have made a huge jump, but most of that is because they dropped the last of their very much down numbers previous to the holidays and that big December trend holds until the end of the Winter book. Don't be fooled.

(and, you should know their billing numbers are OK but not what you'd think of a station that's #1 25-54. Other stations below them 25-54 consistently do a lot better in the revenue department than WOLL).



> Speaking of oldies...I just noticed in the numbers for West
> Palm just released, the oldies station (105.5) had a huge
> increase and is #1 in 12+. It looks like they just played
> Under the Boardwalk and a Beatles song so guess they mix in
> some 60's.
>
> Jeff
>

 

[rbrucecarter]

> In a post on this board during the past week, someone
> mentioned that the Eagle 96.9 is just about where it was
> from a billing perspective when the format was oldies. That
> alone speaks volumes.

They were a great oldies station, and put a very good signal over Daytona Beach / Port Orange. They sounded almost like a local.