The ratings are out for los angeles.

[davideduardo]

I know and didn't realize a share was so small, compared with cume but if you had what amounted to 4000 people in half a share, that could be considered, "many" in small towns. What I didn't know was that the total share was only 8% of the total population above 6.

But 4,000 AQH listeners in Blyth would be a share of 100.

In an area as big as Los Angeles, an AQH that low means that very few listeners live in an area near an advertiser's location or offices. And it's only small advertisers that are going to buy a low rated station.

In other words, nobody will drive from Sylmar to Culver City to respond to an ad. It is more than an hour driving, at best, each way. And there are not enough listeners in any area to make the advertising "work".

 

[davideduardo]

Another local artist - Chicano Batman - have headlined the Tropicalia Music Festival in Long Beach two years in a row (about 15k people attend this show) and can sell out any show in the area - but besides a few spins on KROQ, they do not receive any regular airplay.

When a station needs a cume of well over a million to be successful in LA, 15,000 is not a good metric.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

I don't think alternative rock is dead - at all - but the genre is just way more fragmented and differentiated than before.

For instance, Mac DeMarco could easily sell out the Hollywood Palladium, but no alternative rock radio station rotates his music.

Another local artist - Chicano Batman - have headlined the Tropicalia Music Festival in Long Beach two years in a row (about 15k people attend this show) and can sell out any show in the area - but besides a few spins on KROQ, they do not receive any regular airplay.

Music testing and PPM decide what plays on the format.

I also hear Chicano Batman maybe once a month on 88.5 FM (KCSN/KSBR)

 

[semoochie]

But 4,000 AQH listeners in Blyth would be a share of 100.

In an area as big as Los Angeles, an AQH that low means that very few listeners live in an area near an advertiser's location or offices. And it's only small advertisers that are going to buy a low rated station.

In other words, nobody will drive from Sylmar to Culver City to respond to an ad. It is more than an hour driving, at best, each way. And there are not enough listeners in any area to make the advertising "work".

I'm not debating any of this. I'm just saying that "many" is relative. 50 years is almost always considered to be "many" whereas 15,000 years is completely out of the ballpark! Also, 50 people in your kitchen is definitely "many"!

 

[michael hagerty]

I'm not debating any of this. I'm just saying that "many" is relative. 50 years is almost always considered to be "many" whereas 15,000 years is completely out of the ballpark! Also, 50 people in your kitchen is definitely "many"!

Yes, semoochie. And relative to radio ratings in Los Angeles, 15,000 is not many.

 

[oldies76]

It's not a "good station". It is a highly directional AM that does not sound very good and which plays music very few people of any age want to hear.

"Many" do not listen to it. "Few" listen to it.

Oh really?? ...you are seriously underestimating them. It's the alternative for KRTH, that many dumped 55'ers + do listen to. When you are dealing with an older age group and the percentage of population as a whole, of course the numbers will be small, but 100,000 is still 100,000, give or take two sellouts at Dodger Stadium! Saul is doing just fine and dandy. Take a listen someday. To me 0.5 is meaningless. To me, the fact that thousands ARE listening tells the story. And that's the goal, getting an audience that's HAPPY.

They play GREAT music that most 55+ desire and anyone younger that has interests in GREAT music, whether from 1976 or 1956.

 

[davideduardo]

Oh really?? ...you are seriously underestimating them. It's the alternative for KRTH, that many dumped 55'ers + do listen to.

No, they don't. There is data by age on the very thin listenership, and it does not include many people in any demographic.

And it is a partial coverage signal-impaired AM station. Who would listen to music on an AM?

When you are dealing with an older age group and the percentage of population as a whole, of course the numbers will be small, but 100,000 is still 100,000, give or take two sellouts at Dodger Stadium! Saul is doing just fine and dandy. Take a listen someday. To me 0.5 is meaningless. To me, the fact that thousands ARE listening tells the story. And that's the goal, getting an audience that's HAPPY.

The station gets a 0.4 share and is below #40 in the rankings on any age group. It averages 4,000 AQH listeners.

It does cume around 100,000. That is about 0.7% of the MSA population.

They play GREAT music that most 55+ desire and anyone younger that has interests in GREAT music, whether from 1976 or 1956.

Most persons over 55 do not desire it. In fact, the music would have its greatest appeal among people between 65 and 70, and then only if they were pop fans who grew up listening to that music. 70% of the AQH is over 65. And still, in that demo, it is ranked 24th. Not even the seniors like it all that much.

LA is 70% or more ethnic and first generation immigrants. Most of the population does not have a heritage of listening to KHJ, KRLA, KFWB and the like.

This is a pass-time for Sol. He has no debt, and has always liked to experiment with very niche formats.

 

[oldies76]

How many people still live in L.A. that listened to KRTH or KHJ in the 60's, 70's and 80's, and welcome such an effort on 1260. They can hear the hits of the 60's again. It's AM, still gonna sound like AM, like it did decades ago on AM.....of course it's gonna sound "bad". But that's how people heard those songs then. True music fans don't mind the occasional interference, losing the signal under an overpass or distant lightning static. It's part of the deal. And the alternative on the radio is not what they like. But you are right, most of 1260's listeners are in their 70's.

 

[davideduardo]

How many people still live in L.A. that listened to KRTH or KHJ in the 60's, 70's and 80's, and welcome such an effort on 1260. They can hear the hits of the 60's again. It's AM, still gonna sound like AM, like it did decades ago on AM.....of course it's gonna sound "bad". But that's how people heard those songs then. True music fans don't mind the occasional interference, losing the signal under an overpass or distant lightning static. It's part of the deal. And the alternative on the radio is not what they like. But you are right, most of 1260's listeners are in their 70's.

The station is pretty much focused on people between 60 and 75. That is where almost all the listening is.

Anyone who is retired and can leave LA will do so. The non-ethnic population has either moved to cheaper places in CA or out of the state. There are plenty of statistics on that.

Most people in LA don't want to hear 60's Top 40 music today. Most people in LA didn't want to hear it in the 60's. KHJ got at the max around a 15 share (I believe Michael has the numbers) and the sum of all the Top 40's in the mid to late 60's was not much more. Remember, even among teens there were always lots of listeners to other musical formats, including r&b, country, Latin pop and regional music, and lots of other varieties. By the latter part of the 60's, there was a lot of listening to harder rock and precursors of the AOR format. Lots of people who never liked the music.

In today's LA, most people who grew up in Mexico don't want to hear 60's top 40. Most people who grew up in Iran don't either. Same for those from Korea or China or Thailand or Russia. For the most part, African Americans did not listen to KHJ. They listened to KGFJ and other alternatives that played r&b.

You are astonishingly exaggerating the scope of Top 40 listening in the 60's and today.

 

[oldies76]

You are astonishingly exaggerating the scope of Top 40 listening in the 60's and today.

No, I don't believe I am. I think you underestimate the number of listeners. These are huge hits, sold millions of records, played ad nauseum, even then. KHJ, KRTH, KFWB, TenQ.....all had their fans, and a large number of them. And people today (some people, if that makes you happy) long for their music. KSUR is a partial answer. KFXM is a partial answer. 1430 in Denver is a partial answer....the list goes on.

 

[davideduardo]

I said, "You are astonishingly exaggerating the scope of Top 40 listening in the 60's and today."

No, I don't believe I am. I think you underestimate the number of listeners. These are huge hits, sold millions of records, played ad nauseum, even then. KHJ, KRTH, KFWB, TenQ.....all had their fans, and a large number of them. And people today (some people, if that makes you happy) long for their music. KSUR is a partial answer. KFXM is a partial answer. 1430 in Denver is a partial answer....the list goes on.

My point is that Top 40 was not a majority format, even in the mid to late 60's. It got perhaps 25% of the shares, no more.

Today, LA is a changed market. Much of the older population that did listen to Top 40 in the 60's has left or died. The average age of a KSUR listener is over 60, and a portion have gone to less horrible places to live, a potion have died and a big portion never did like the music to begin with.

Today's population in LA is 70% ethnic and first generation immigrant. Most did not grow up with The Real Don Steele or Robert W. They don't listen to the music at all.

What's left is significantly reduced by the fact that we have all become used to FM quality. I grew up on AM. At one time I owned 8 of them, some in major markets... so nothing against AM just as I have nothing against bell bottom pants and sideburns... but I would not indulge in those any more, either.

Again, the AQH of KSUR is 4,000 people in a market of 13,000,000. KFXM has never showed in the ratings, and the Denver station (the old KOSI) has few listeners as well.

 

[michael hagerty]

David: KHJ's best book ever was a 13.0 in the fall of 1968. KRLA had a 4.0, so there's a 17 share. But that was 51 years ago.

At the time, they were targeting 12-34 year olds (FM hadn't really come on yet---KMET had just flipped from Beautiful Music to freeform in June of that year). So add 51. The people who were KHJ's target at the time of their best book are now 63 to-----gulp----85 years old.

That's pretty far outside any salable demo. Factor in departures, dementia and deaths and only a fraction of that audience is still alive, living in L.A. and nostalgic for late 60s top 40.

And Oldies seems to not understand that AM doesn't sound like AM did decades ago. The noise floor created by electronic devices has cut the effective (noise-free) range of even the biggest AM signals. The FCC cut transmitted AM audio bandwidth from 15 kHz to 10.2 in 1989---30 years ago. And AM receivers are nowhere near as good as the stuff that came standard in a 1960s American car.

The bottom line to this is that everybody who wants to listen to KSUR and can actually get the signal pretty much is. No shame in that. But it also is not indicative of any kind of "success" in the way of ratings or revenue and can only be done because Saul is the patron saint of lost formats.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Who even listens to AM for music??? So I just "tuned" in to the stream of KSUR and first thing I heard was "Eleanor Rigby" - Beatles, fine. BUT the very next song was in stereo BUT it was a re-recording of "Angel Baby" Rosie & the Originals with some Spanish lyrics thrown in for the hell of it. I totally hate re-makes even if by the same artist. Sure sucked. A total turnoff. Next was "Groovy Kind of Love" by Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders. So all 3 were big hits Top Ten. But I hate the remake.
Here's a list of some of what was played this morning--- some really big hits there and few stiffs

Song History
Last songs played on L.A. Oldies

A Groovy Kind Of Love
Mindbenders

Angel Baby
Rosie & The Originals_SPANISH

Eleanor Rigby
Beatles
Revolver

Be My Baby
Ronettes

Speedo
Cadillacs

The Sounds Of Silence
Simon and Garfunkel

Let's Spend The Night Together
The Rolling Stones

If You Wanna Be Happy
Jimmy Soul

American Woman
The Guess Who

The Little Old Lady (From Pasadena)
Jan And Dean

Whole Lotta Loving
Fats Domino

Hooked On A Feeling
B.J. Thomas

Chantilly Lace
Big Bopper

Little Honda
Hondells


Jackson Browne
Doctor My Eyes

These Boots Are Made For Walking
Nancy Sinatra

Queen Of The Hop
Bobby Darin

Help Me, Rhonda
Beach Boys

I SECOND THAT EMOTION
Smokey Robinson & The Miracles

(Let Me Be Your) Teddy Bear
Elvis Presley

All I Have To Do Is Dream
Everly Brothers

It's My Life
Animals

You Never Can Tell
Chuck Berry

Uptight (Everything's Alright)
Stevie Wonder

Stop! In The Name Of Love
Supremes

Everybody
Tommy Roe

Brown Eyed Girl
Van Morrison

Count Me In
Gary Lewis & The Playboys

Candy Man
Roy Orbison


Windy
Association

Ride Captain Ride
Blues Image

Elusive butterfly
Bob Lind

Hungry
Paul Revere And The Raiders

Bad To Me
Billy J. Kramer And The Dakotas

Long Cool Woman (In A Black Dress)
The Hollies

Leaving On A Jet Plane
Peter, Paul & Mary

Hey Jude
Beatles

Hello Stranger
Barbara Lewis

Take It Easy
Eagles

The Beat Goes On
Sonny & Cher

It's Now Or Never
Elvis Presley

I Fought The Law
Bobby Fuller Four

It's Your Thing
Isley Brothers

A Hundred Pounds Of Clay
Gene MacDaniels


Light My Fire
The Doors

C'Mon & Swim
Bobby Freeman

A Teenager In Love
Dion And The Belmonts

Stuck In The Middle With You
Stealer's Wheel

It's My Party
Lesley Gore

Good Vibrations
Beach Boys

I'll Be Doggone
Marvin Gaye

 

[oldies76]

Who even listens to AM for music??? So I just "tuned" in to the stream of KSUR and first thing I heard was "Eleanor Rigby" - Beatles, fine. BUT the very next song was in stereo BUT it was a re-recording of "Angel Baby" Rosie & the Originals with some Spanish lyrics thrown in for the hell of it. I totally hate re-makes even if by the same artist. Sure sucked. A total turnoff.

I dislike remakes or stereo knock-offs too. You'd think you were listening to those cheap, secondary re-recorded WalMart cd's or something. Unfortunately, AM radio is where the music is, older hit music that is. Your list is fine, nothing wrong with it, typical of what 1260 would play. So if you want the older hits that used to play on FM, then tune into AM. There are some great stations out there, playing wonderful songs.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Your list is fine, nothing wrong with it, typical of what 1260 would play. .

Haha Eddie, not "typical" --- it's what they DID play this morning DIRECTLY from their website...... My station of choice for oldies is WDJO Cincinnatti, it's what every "oldies" station SHOULD sound like

 

[davideduardo]

Who even listens to AM for music??? So I just "tuned" in to the stream of KSUR and ... some really big hits there and few stiffs

Thanks for the monitor. They are not on BDS and I can't get the signal where I am.

That is way too old for me. And a number of songs I don't recognize (although I was programming Top 40 during part of that early era). I am now 18 years out of the "sales demos" and I find the programming in general to be more appealing for people older than I am.

Add in the factors about AM that Michael mentioned, this is not going to be a good experience for most people and is not going to produce results for advertisers... which is why we do it to begin with.

 

[davideduardo]

Your list is fine, nothing wrong with it, typical of what 1260 would play. So if you want the older hits that used to play on FM, then tune into AM. There are some great stations out there, playing wonderful songs.

... for people 80 and older.

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

Thanks for the monitor. They are not on BDS and I can't get the signal where I am.

That is way too old for me. And a number of songs I don't recognize (although I was programming Top 40 during part of that early era). I am now 18 years out of the "sales demos" and I find the programming in general to be more appealing for people older than I am.

Add in the factors about AM that Michael mentioned, this is not going to be a good experience for most people and is not going to produce results for advertisers... which is why we do it to begin with.

And to add further insult, I find the sound quality of the station worse than other established AMs like KFI and KNX.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Thanks for the monitor. They are not on BDS and I can't get the signal where I am.

That is way too old for me. And a number of songs I don't recognize (although I was programming Top 40 during part of that early era). I am now 18 years out of the "sales demos" and I find the programming in general to be more appealing for people older than I am.

Add in the factors about AM that Michael mentioned, this is not going to be a good experience for most people and is not going to produce results for advertisers... which is why we do it to begin with.

Interestingly enough, I have/can hear 1260 right before LA sunset here in Laramie, WY a few times a month,, and ive liked what I heard

 

[SuperRadioFan]

And to add further insult, I find the sound quality of the station worse than other established AMs like KFI and KNX.

Totally agree about the sound quality. Very flat, no compression where compression might be needed. I also have tuned in at times to their HD2 signal while driving and again the sound quality is below most of our standards. AM is worthless for music and even talk nowadays. I have a 2017 Mazda CX-5 with a great sound system, but the AM tuner is just about unlistenable. Case in point, driving home yesterday afternoon I tuned in to AM 830 to hear Roger Lodge (The Sports Lodge) and it was so bad I used my cell phone's Tune In app to listen to the broadcast in much better fidelity. Since many if not most cars don't even have a CD option in the sound system, can the elimination of AM be far behind? Maybe the FCC might not allow auto manufacturers to do that because of AM transmissions during a weather or natural catastrophe emergency might be considered necessary.