The ratings are out for los angeles.

[CTListener]

Gone from the airwaves (maybe), but preserved forever in the Library of Congress, Online, Internet Radio.....It's our job, to somehow preserve these songs for future generations to enjoy. Someone living in 2119, would be curious as to who the Beatles were and their 20 #1 smashes, who the Queen of Soul is, the success of the Bee Gees in 1978 or maybe an obscure gem such as "Close to You" by the Carpenters. I believe rock and roll will live longer to future gens, than the music of the 20's thru the 40's is doing today.

How curious do you think the current generation is in Chuck Berry, or Bing Crosby, or Glenn Miller, or Rudy Vallee? How interested do you think the next will be? One hundred years from now? Popular music then may bear no resemblance to what even millennials now think of as music, or it may be experienced in a whole new, yet-uninvented, way. One would think that recorded music will always be preserved somewhere -- even some old Edison recordings are easily accessible online -- but I would be very surprised if the popular music of the '60s and '70s succeeds in doing what the popular music of all other eras has failed to do -- fascinate a general audience of people born long after its introduction.

Oh, and "Close to You" a gem? I never knew schmaltz could metamorphose into a precious stone.

 

[michael hagerty]

Gone from the airwaves (maybe), but preserved forever in the Library of Congress, Online, Internet Radio.....It's our job, to somehow preserve these songs for future generations to enjoy. Someone living in 2119, would be curious as to who the Beatles were and their 20 #1 smashes, who the Queen of Soul is, the success of the Bee Gees in 1978 or maybe an obscure gem such as "Close to You" by the Carpenters. I believe rock and roll will live longer to future gens, than the music of the 20's thru the 40's is doing today.

You'll be lucky if that's true in 2029, much less 90 years later. CTListener hit the nail on the head. Pop music is ephemera.

 

[michael hagerty]

...I'll just leave this here...

https://playback.fm/charts/top-100-songs/1919

 

[davideduardo]

Every generation has had the conceit that its music was the best, that nothing will ever surpass it, that future generations will love it as much or more as they will the popular songs of their own generations. False, false and false. The vast majority of the songs of the '50s and '60s will mean no more to future generations than most of the '40s hits of the Mills Brothers, Andrews Sisters and Perry Como do to today's millennials.

Wonderfully expressed.

We only think the music of our generation is superior to that of any other.

 

[davideduardo]

...I'll just leave this here...

https://playback.fm/charts/top-100-songs/1919

Henry Burr seems to have had lots of hits. Just like the Beatles.


So who was Henry Burr?





Henry Burr (January 15, 1882 – April 6, 1941) was a Canadian singer, radio performer and producer. He produced more than 12,000 recordings, by his own estimate

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I don't always agree with Oldies' facts and logic but I respect and really admire the passion he brings for the music he loves. I love it too. And some day 20 or 30 years from now when all of this great music has long left the airwaves I will want someone as committed as he is to still have a venue to bring it to me. My generation's music IS the best (sorry Milenials!) and as long as I am still around, I will want to hear it.

 

[John Gallagher]

I can see why KSUR is advancing the decades of music they're playing. It only makes sense as it did for Classic Hits stations did when they pretty much left the 60's and soon the 70s behind.

Even though music is my business, besides an event I'm a DJ at and updating my library in the office during the week, the only time I listen to music outside of that is in my vehicle. Far cry from the 25 years or so I spent in radio. Nowadays, I mainly listen to Hits 1 on Sirius. I've become burned out on the 60s, 70s and 80's music. And, I turn 60 this year.

 

[oldies76]

The thing you, David and others sometimes fail to realize, is that that many songs in the rock and roll era have great fidelity, contains great musical quality, meaningful lyrics, great recordings, stereo sound, lasting popularity and the like, unlike its predecessors with inferior recordings....ala.....Henry Burr and other music from that era. Burr's music is great, just which would you prefer based on musical quality? Music preserved from old cylinders or Ampex 456 tape or digital. The appeal of rock and roll will last a hell of a lot longer than the older music of the 1910's and 20's will today.

But the core of each generation thinks it for a moment to be the cats' meow.

Some will follow it to death. Others will realize that it was the music of their crazy youth, and move one.

 

[oldies76]

I don't always agree with Oldies' facts and logic but I respect and really admire the passion he brings for the music he loves. I love it too. And some day 20 or 30 years from now when all of this great music has long left the airwaves I will want someone as committed as he is to still have a venue to bring it to me. My generation's music IS the best (sorry Milenials!) and as long as I am still around, I will want to hear it.

Thanks Flipper. If preserved properly, music of any era will be accessible to anyone that wants it, today or a century from now. To make them MIA and ignore listener wishes, is dead wrong.

And yes, our generational music is great and there will be nothing like it ever again.

 

[semoochie]

...I'll just leave this here...

https://playback.fm/charts/top-100-songs/1919

I know who Al Jolson and John McCormack were and that's it! I also recognize six titles, assuming they're the same songs I think they are. I was here when these songs were fewer than 40 years old. All of this must be quite vague, at best, to the next generation. In another hundred years, I can't imagine this being of interest to anyone other than music scholars!

 

[CTListener]

I know who Al Jolson and John McCormack were and that's it! I also recognize six titles, assuming they're the same songs I think they are. I was here when these songs were fewer than 40 years old. All of this must be quite vague, at best, to the next generation. In another hundred years, I can't imagine this being of interest to anyone other than music scholars!

"Beautiful Ohio" was a big hit three times that year, for the prolific Mr. Burr and a couple of orchestras, yet I can honestly say I'd never heard of the tune until just now. I recognize only four titles. "Mandy" would be a fifth if it were the Barry Manilow song, but since Van & Schenck almost certainly had no access to a time machine (I think we'd have heard about that, but heck, we haven't even heard of Van & Schenck) I can't put it on my list.

My dad had several 78s by John McCormack, an Irish tenor, among his huge music collection when I was a kid in the '60s. Most were recorded only on one side, an indication of just how young the recording industry was in those days. I listened to some of them and especially liked his rendition of "The Star-Spangled Banner," which I found out years later, upon finding the recording on YouTube, was the only recording of the anthem ever to top the chart! Apparently, he decided to record it as a message of gratitude to the country that had responded so warmly to his music, most of which consisted of sentimental Irish and Irish-American ballads.

 

[michael hagerty]

I don't always agree with Oldies' facts and logic but I respect and really admire the passion he brings for the music he loves. I love it too. And some day 20 or 30 years from now when all of this great music has long left the airwaves I will want someone as committed as he is to still have a venue to bring it to me. My generation's music IS the best (sorry Milenials!) and as long as I am still around, I will want to hear it.

ChannelFlipper: I'm with you about Oldies' passion (and about the facts and logic too). Historians and archivists are important (heck, I kinda fall into that category myself). But that's not the same thing as suggesting that there's a business case in mass media for it.

We're actually able to track in real time how people behave now. Pretty much everything from our time and before is accessible---in the best possible digital quality. And guess what? HBO draws way more eyeballs than Turner Classic Movies (and, staying in a hotel in Tahoe last weekend, my wife and I tuned to TCM expecting to see some wonderful old Fred Astaire movie and got Jack Lemmon and Jane Fonda in "The China Syndrome" (1979) instead). Even they know they're dealing with a moving target.

Only 9 of the top 100 albums on Billboard this week are from 60s or 70s artists. Three of those are from Queen---sales picked up because of the movie "Bohemian Rhapsody". Another is Elton John's "Diamonds", coinciding with his farewell tour. A Tom Petty greatest hits package is there, as is a Billy Joel best-of, Journey's greatest hits, Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours" and Creedence Clearwater's anthology "Chronicle".

Literally 9 percent.

I took only the top 100 of a 200 album chart, because if you've seen sales figures lately and how few it takes to make #1, you can imagine how grim the sales numbers are when you get down to 100. But let's dip down to see how far you have to go to find other 60s/70s artists:

Bob Seger's Greatest Hits shows up at 122.

The Eagles' Greatest Hits is 142.

The Beatles finally show up with "Abbey Road" at 158.

A Beach Boys greatest hits pack manages 163.

The Beatles Number 1 is number 166.

The Rolling Stones finally appear with the "Hot Rocks 1964-1971" album at number 170.

A second Eagles compilation, "The Very Best of the Eagles", is number 175.

Simon and Garfunkel's Greatest Hits is number 192---again, Paul's on his supposed "Farewell Tour", though he just announced he'll be playing a Northern California festival later this year.

...and that's it.

So that's 17 out of 200...or eight and a half percent.

Oldies76----this is a compliment, I swear. You are simply more curious about what came before than the vast majority of Americans. We actually have that in common. Our difference is the belief that a business (radio) can make a profit serving people like us. I know (from 48 years in that business next week) that it can't.

 

[oldies76]

Oldies76----this is a compliment, I swear. You are simply more curious about what came before than the vast majority of Americans. We actually have that in common. Our difference is the belief that a business (radio) can make a profit serving people like us. I know (from 48 years in that business next week) that it can't.

Thanks. But may I ask you a question?

If stations cannot make a profit playing the older music to people that enjoy them, then why do stations like WDJO exist, the Rock 1510 / 93.7 in Denver playing a boatload of great hits from the 60's and 70's since 2014. Are these stations making a profit? Are they making money? You'd assume so, since some of these have been on air for many years. Small markets / small stations, low ratings? Yes, but they are out there. They exist, many of them, primarily on AM. You'd think they'd be making $$$, or why would they be on?

And then you have the countless LPFM's...

Unless you win the Powerball, or have a boatload of expendable cash, you are running a deficit.

 

[davideduardo]

Thanks. But may I ask you a question?

If stations cannot make a profit playing the older music to people that enjoy them, then why do stations like WDJO exist, the Rock 1510 / 93.7 in Denver playing a boatload of great hits from the 60's and 70's since 2014. Are these stations making a profit? Are they making money? You'd assume so, since some of these have been on air for many years. Small markets / small stations, low ratings? Yes, but they are out there. They exist, many of them, primarily on AM. You'd think they'd be making $$$, or why would they be on?

They generally make a tiny bit of money, or are guaranteed employment for a single owner. They live on trades and small business cash accounts.

They exist primarily on horrible facilities that can't compete in any other format. In the cases you mention, the whole station bills only slightly more than you would expect the General Manager at a leading market cluster to make in a year.

And then you have the countless LPFM's...

And the ones doing music formats based on 50's and 60's music are basically hobbyist stations. Little cost, lot of fun... until it gets tiring or when it is simply automated and forgotten.

 

[Yabadabado1]

"Future listeners of those eras" are passing away and in another decade there will be practically no people who grew up on 50's and 60's Top 40 music and those that remain will be in their 80's and beyond.

Radio stations are not museums. We do not make money being curators of aging music of dying generations.

Hear, hear. I am probably in the last decade of my life, seeing as how most of my male relatives on my dad's side died in their 40s and only two [before me] lived into their 60s. Ain't no stations out there programming to my musical tastes anymore and as far as they're concerned I can drop dead.

 

[michael hagerty]

Regarding LPFMs:

These stations are available to noncommercial educational entities and public safety/travelers' information entities, but not individuals or commercial operations.

So commercial viability isn't even a consideration.

As for the commercial stations and why they exist if there's little money to be made---everything exists until one day it doesn't. Sears was once the World's Largest Store. Now look at it. Just because something's been on the air since 2014 doesn't mean it'll be here tomorrow---or that it's doing anywhere near as well as it was five years ago. That is an especially acute problem for upper-demo formats, whose audience is literally dying off daily.

 

[CTListener]

Regarding LPFMs:

These stations are available to noncommercial educational entities and public safety/travelers' information entities, but not individuals or commercial operations.

So commercial viability isn't even a consideration.

As for the commercial stations and why they exist if there's little money to be made---everything exists until one day it doesn't. Sears was once the World's Largest Store. Now look at it. Just because something's been on the air since 2014 doesn't mean it'll be here tomorrow---or that it's doing anywhere near as well as it was five years ago. That is an especially acute problem for upper-demo formats, whose audience is literally dying off daily.

Another thing to remember: Most advertisers on top-billing stations aren't looking for one-time buyers or customers with a good chance of being dead within a decade. A car dealer isn't advertising on radio because it wants to sell Gramps his last car, likely from its used car selection. It wants to sell a much younger customer his or her first or second car, from the current model year, and hopefully make such a good impression that that customer will keep coming back, not only for service, but for his or her next half-dozen (or more) cars. Same with Coca-Cola and its seemingly endless introductions of new flavor formulations. These aren't being targeted at people who've been drinking Coke since it contained cocaine (slight exaggeration; coke hasn't been in Coke for more than 100 years); it wants to lure much younger consumers away from the huge variety of other soft drinks on the market and get them to think of Coca-Cola as a brand that's always doing something new.

 

[davideduardo]

Regarding LPFMs:

These stations are available to noncommercial educational entities and public safety/travelers' information entities, but not individuals or commercial operations..

But we see, often, that they are in the hands of one individual who has formed a non-profit entity and the station is run as an extension of their musical taste or belief system.

The survival rate on those stations, unless basked by a church or large organization, is poor. Many are ad hoc committees that file for a license, not understanding how much labor goes into them. Often the end up being run by one person and have significant portions of the day automated or prerecorded.

 

[TheBigA]

Often the end up being run by one person and have significant portions of the day automated or prerecorded.

That's mainly what folks are getting with KSUR. They're doing it on auto pilot. The couple hundred listeners just want to hear their songs and don't care about anything else.

 

[hotpatrick2004]

Remember sal tried talk on that frequency at one time. I remember john ziegler bein on there.