The Reason? - Music

[1316wwood]

I was in radio for 20+ years. The last 10 playing and programming smooth jazz. I am out of the business now. Sadly I am glad I am. I have a thought abut it and wanted to get some feedback from current smooth jazz programmers/listeners etc.

After watching The Grammy's Sunday night it was apparent that there is a huge problem with today's music. It's no secret to me. I have known it for a long time. Talent and ability to play/sing does not mean so much anymore. It's youth oriented, always has been but, musical ability does not count for much. Many smooth jazz artists come from either a jazz background or were involved in the pop/rock world at one time. Is the obvious downfall in smooth jazz from a radio perspective simply a lack of good/creative/inventive music? I know the listener choices (satellite radio, iPod etc.) are many these days. But is it because of what I mentioned above a main reason why smooth jazz has suffered? I know live shows and themed tours continue to do well and I am thankful for that. There is a bevy of talent in the format.

Thanks for your indulgence. Smooth jazz on the radio where I live is no more. Many of the stations I listened to streaming are also gone. Would love to hear the opinions of current and past lovers, programmers of the format. What's next?

 

[AC Tones]

Well, not sure where to start on this one, brother. My simple response: I agree with you that today's "mainstream" music is largely crap--screaming loud and unimaginative--which is why I listen to nothing but contemporary jazz these days. I also agree that Smooth Jazz as a format suffered mightily due a lack of creativity in the recording studio and in programming. But the artists and labels have gotten the message, and a lot of the music that has been produced over the last 12-18 months (as far as contemporary jazz goes) is some of the most creative and vibrant this genre has seen in several years (if not well over a decade), IMO. There is no dearth of good new music or emerging young talent, which is GREAT news for programmers and listeners who love this music. Despite the well-publicized blows this format has taken on terrestrial radio, the irony is, there has really never been a better time in recent memory to be a programmer spinning all of this great music that is out there than right now, NEVER.

 

[recto101]

I was in radio for 20+ years. The last 10 playing and programming smooth jazz. I am out of the business now. Sadly I am glad I am. I have a thought abut it and wanted to get some feedback from current smooth jazz programmers/listeners etc.

After watching The Grammy's Sunday night it was apparent that there is a huge problem with today's music. It's no secret to me. I have known it for a long time. Talent and ability to play/sing does not mean so much anymore. It's youth oriented, always has been but, musical ability does not count for much. Many smooth jazz artists come from either a jazz background or were involved in the pop/rock world at one time. Is the obvious downfall in smooth jazz from a radio perspective simply a lack of good/creative/inventive music? I know the listener choices (satellite radio, iPod etc.) are many these days. But is it because of what I mentioned above a main reason why smooth jazz has suffered? I know live shows and themed tours continue to do well and I am thankful for that. There is a bevy of talent in the format.

Thanks for your indulgence. Smooth jazz on the radio where I live is no more. Many of the stations I listened to streaming are also gone. Would love to hear the opinions of current and past lovers, programmers of the format. What's next?

SJ was just based on the Quiet Storm format look at new Age its is more improvised than Smooth Jazz

 

[majaman78]

I was in radio for 20+ years. The last 10 playing and programming smooth jazz. I am out of the business now. Sadly I am glad I am. I have a thought abut it and wanted to get some feedback from current smooth jazz programmers/listeners etc.

After watching The Grammy's Sunday night it was apparent that there is a huge problem with today's music. It's no secret to me. I have known it for a long time. Talent and ability to play/sing does not mean so much anymore. It's youth oriented, always has been but, musical ability does not count for much. Many smooth jazz artists come from either a jazz background or were involved in the pop/rock world at one time. Is the obvious downfall in smooth jazz from a radio perspective simply a lack of good/creative/inventive music? I know the listener choices (satellite radio, iPod etc.) are many these days. But is it because of what I mentioned above a main reason why smooth jazz has suffered? I know live shows and themed tours continue to do well and I am thankful for that. There is a bevy of talent in the format.

Thanks for your indulgence. Smooth jazz on the radio where I live is no more. Many of the stations I listened to streaming are also gone. Would love to hear the opinions of current and past lovers, programmers of the format. What's next?

But the new music is out there.

Just because terrestrial packages up and destroys the format doesn't mean it's dead...look at how far KTWV The Wave has been dumbed down. I just took a look at the last 3 songs they just played...they average over 30 years old (Withers' Just The Two Of Us, Herb Alpert's Rise, and to top it all off Michael Jackson's Billie Jean).

This is horrific programming imo. It's just another mediocre oldies outlet sprinkled with cover instrumentals. Pure unadulterated garbage, and I wouldn't listen if you paid me.

What IS and REMAINS the problem for terrestrial is there will never be any creativity due to their constant grab for money and profits (which I'm happy to report are dwindling by the day, and it's nothing new...corporations like Clear Channel only provided for their shareholders first and the public last, so they don't care to know what the product is as long as they can make a quick buck). My prediction is that radio will eventually become a vast wasteland of talk and info, nothing else.

The future of the smooth jazz and for the music industry as a whole will be on the 'net.

You can bank on it.

p.s. - I just ordered a new Lexus. I asked whether I could get one without a radio and just an aux jack with their top of the line speaker and pre-amp/amp system.

Welcome to the future. I hope I can save $100 off the sticker by losing the radio!!! ;D

 

[Carmine5]

I was in radio for 20+ years. The last 10 playing and programming smooth jazz. I am out of the business now. Sadly I am glad I am. I have a thought abut it and wanted to get some feedback from current smooth jazz programmers/listeners etc.

After watching The Grammy's Sunday night it was apparent that there is a huge problem with today's music. It's no secret to me. I have known it for a long time. Talent and ability to play/sing does not mean so much anymore. It's youth oriented, always has been but, musical ability does not count for much. Many smooth jazz artists come from either a jazz background or were involved in the pop/rock world at one time. Is the obvious downfall in smooth jazz from a radio perspective simply a lack of good/creative/inventive music? I know the listener choices (satellite radio, iPod etc.) are many these days. But is it because of what I mentioned above a main reason why smooth jazz has suffered? I know live shows and themed tours continue to do well and I am thankful for that. There is a bevy of talent in the format.

Thanks for your indulgence. Smooth jazz on the radio where I live is no more. Many of the stations I listened to streaming are also gone. Would love to hear the opinions of current and past lovers, programmers of the format. What's next?

My prediction is that radio will eventually become a vast wasteland of talk and info, nothing else.

If the PRA is passed you can bet on it. Radio honchos have already threatened to flip their stations to talk should they be faced with the burden of a extra royalty payment. Unfortunately, there have been renewed calls recently from the music industry for Congress to pass the PRA. Even Dave Koz writing in Radio World tried to sell broadcasters on a performance royalty.

So if we're doing a 'late lament' now for Smooth Jazz on terrestrial radio it could be really just the start of something worse. I think web radio will ultimately be salvation for all music and why the music industry needs to do more to nurture this budding industry instead of burdening it with royalties and excessive accounting requirements.

http://www.rbr.com/radio/20771.html

c5

 

[AC Tones]

PRA is looming, c5, no question about it---As a small outlet, I will certainly be following this issue closely.

BTW, here is my favorite excerpt from the article you attached. It's something you, I, and others have mentioned to notable radio "smart guys" who make the rounds on this board from time to time, and interestingly those with a treasure trove of opinions are always silent on this (you can also add corporate radio to the bolded sentence):

RBR-TVBR observation: College stations are the perfect place for unknown acts to start generating some buzz. It’s vital free promotion that is available in few other places. But the recording industry has so lost its way that it cannot seem to remember that radio made it what it is in the first place.

 

[AnotherCat]

There are musicians who I feel are misguided re: SoundExchange- internet radio and PRA - Terrestial radio. They think that you can download music off a streaming station (?!) or that songwriters/artists are getting ripped off when stations are not paying to play their music. Remember when stations got paid to play songs - indirectly and illegally but it happened/happens. Whenever a staton plays your song that is a 4 minute (approx) ad for you, your music and your CD. If you are an indie or low budget-niche genre you should be thankful for internet radio airplay - not trying to make nonprofit internet broadcasters pay to play it. i could say that if a streamer is making revenue they owed a percentage for use of the music but on the other hand they would be equally justified to turn around and say "when I play your song it's a commercial for you so I'll charge you our spot rate and use that money to pay the performance royalty. Ha. Take that (never happen but it should).

 

[RBW]

But the new music is out there.

Yes it is! For me, the genre became rejuvinated by artists like 480 East. Unfortunately many of those whom I considered as trail-blazers, namely Hiroshima and The Rippingtons, appear to have the best years behind them. On the other hand, the artsits know who their fan bases are, but it's become more challenging to get their music heard. It still amazes me that some of the few remaining SJ "radio stations" are still able to cume together the annual fests and bring the big talents in, considering the difficulty in hearing the music and getting more than just the hardcore fans to make it profitable.

The whole vanishing format issue became serious (for me) when 101.9 New York went bust! Unless we blame the arrival of HD Radio for killing it on the standard bands. ???

 

[AC Tones]

Absolutely, Cat. The artists (particularly of this genre) need to realize that, in the world of big corporate terrestrial radio flips, college and Internet radio stations are their friends. They are missing the big picture if they are worried about stream captures. Sure, with the stream capturing software that is available these days, there is nothing to prevent anyone from pulling their music down in relatively high-quality sound, which could obviate the need for listeners to actually purchase their music. But here's the thing. If no one is giving their music airplay, who is going to know about it anyway? Moreover, in the age of digital/a la carte downloads, no one is making money on CDs these days. The "big money" (relatively speaking) is being made at the events and these Smooth Jazz cruises. And unless you are an avid fan of this genre and have followed the artists over the years, you are not going to be able to discover new music without Internet radio, plain and simple. And the more listeners Internet broadcasters expose your music to, the better chances more checks in the amount of $5K will be written annually to see you perform live on those Smooth Jazz cruises.

 

[AC Tones]

But the new music is out there.

Yes it is! For me, the genre became rejuvinated by artists like 480 East. Unfortunately many of those whom I considered as trail-blazers, namely Hiroshima and The Rippingtons, appear to have the best years behind them. On the other hand, the artsits know who their fan bases are, but it's become more challenging to get their music heard. It still amazes me that some of the few remaining SJ "radio stations" are still able to cume together the annual fests and bring the big talents in, considering the difficulty in hearing the music and getting more than just the hardcore fans to make it profitable.

The whole vanishing format issue became serious (for me) when 101.9 New York went bust! Unless we blame the arrival of HD Radio for killing it on the standard bands. ???

RBW, The Ripps' "Modern Art" is actually a decent listen, IMO. In fact, Ted Hasiuk, who is a programmer I have tremendous respect for, is showcasing it this week on his show (which I proudly air from 6:00-9:00PM Eastern every Saturday night---AC Tones' shameless radio-info self-promotion #193 ). Ted is also a HUGE fan of Four80East, and spins a lot of their music. I agree the Ripps went through a rough stretch for some time in the late 1990s and this past decade, as did a few other pioneers of this genre. But they got their groove back with "Twenty," and "Modern Art" is deeper than terrestrial radio would lead you to believe. And I think you will see some of the other greats of this genre start to take more chances in the studio.

 

[salemjedi54]

I have always felt that the Smooth Jazz format should have never subscribe to airplay charts. The PD and MD should sit down, listen to a new CD and figure out what songs would appeal to the listeners in their local market. I'm not a big fan research, but it would come in handy to help really focus on what listeners want to hear.

I have to commend AC Tones. He listens to his listeners, but he also knows what sounds good on The .wav. Personally I like the more funkier smooth jazz tracks.

 

[AC Tones]

I have always felt that the Smooth Jazz format should have never subscribe to airplay charts. The PD and MD should sit down, listen to a new CD and figure out what songs would appeal to the listeners in their local market. I'm not a big fan research, but it would come in handy to help really focus on what listeners want to hear.

I have to commend AC Tones. He listens to his listeners, but he also knows what sounds good on The .wav. Personally I like the more funkier smooth jazz tracks.

Hey Jedi. As always, thanks for listening!! Looking to add a funky syndicated show for the weekend. I'll keep you posted. Nice to have educated listeners like yourself who realize that my station (and others) develop a core theme/vibe for its "base listeners" (whoever they may be). As you know, a lot of what I do from a programming perspective is based on quality listener feedback from the guys who tune in for 10-14 hours a day. Those are the guys I have to stay true to. But at the same time, I also realize the importance of change of pace cuts to keep the programming interesting for ALL of my listeners. Back to the topic of this thread, what is great about the music that is coming out these days is its diversity and expert melding of funk with good melodies. In a way, this kind of music (good melodies infused with funk--Darren Rahn's CD is a great example of this) enables me as a programmer to appeal to a broader spectrum of listeners without having to degrade the product or offend certain listeners who prefer melodies to funk, and vice-versa. As I said before, it is a GREAT time to be a musical chemist trying to put together the winning formula for this format! ;D

 

[Nock]

AC I would agree with you on Modern Art. In fact I put the cd off to the side thinking it was just another Ripps cd and listening to your stream woke me up to many great tracks that I am now spinning.

Nock

 

[Carmine5]

PRA is looming, c5, no question about it---As a small outlet, I will certainly be following this issue closely.

BTW, here is my favorite excerpt from the article you attached. It's something you, I, and others have mentioned to notable radio "smart guys" who make the rounds on this board from time to time, and interestingly those with a treasure trove of opinions are always silent on this (you can also add corporate radio to the bolded sentence):

RBR-TVBR observation: College stations are the perfect place for unknown acts to start generating some buzz. It’s vital free promotion that is available in few other places. But the recording industry has so lost its way that it cannot seem to remember that radio made it what it is in the first place.

There is a follow up article on the PRA in RBR that is good for an (unintentional) laugh and a few insightful observations from the editor.

I particularly enjoyed this point, AC:

"Ironically, if PRA is enacted, it will make it even harder for the up-and-coming to break through. Stations, paying to play each and every song, will not want to spend money on an experiment from some unknown – they’re going to stick with the tried and true.

PRA will simply chase new talent to new platforms on the internet. It will be just one more item on the long list of self-inflicted wounds the recording industry is compiling."

If you think the current KTWV playlist is bad now (and many of us do), imagine that playlist under the influence of the PRA. The music industry just doesn't get it--and I might add, neither do the musicians who support this. When all is said and done their take from this royalty bounty is only about a half cent per song, per airing. Very shortsighted.

http://www.rbr.com/radio/20862.html

http://www.rbr.com/radio/20861.html

c5

 

[Double D]

Looking to add a funky syndicated show for the weekend. I'll keep you posted.

Hey Chris, speaking of funky weekend shows!!

On the very rare occasion I break away from "The.wav", I happened to recently check out The Bay Smooth Jazz Mix Show,
Featuring Donald Grammar (Sun: 8pmET, Fri: 10pmET, Sat: 8pmET)...

Bay Smooth Jazz Website

Bay Smooth Jazz - Click to Listen w/Windows Media Player

Wasn't expecting much, but this guy does one hell of a job mixing smooth jazz songs!! Go figure!!

Not sure they'd be willing to syndicate to other internet streamers, but the program is worth a listen!

DD

 

[AC Tones]

PRA is looming, c5, no question about it---As a small outlet, I will certainly be following this issue closely.

BTW, here is my favorite excerpt from the article you attached. It's something you, I, and others have mentioned to notable radio "smart guys" who make the rounds on this board from time to time, and interestingly those with a treasure trove of opinions are always silent on this (you can also add corporate radio to the bolded sentence):

RBR-TVBR observation: College stations are the perfect place for unknown acts to start generating some buzz. It’s vital free promotion that is available in few other places. But the recording industry has so lost its way that it cannot seem to remember that radio made it what it is in the first place.

There is a follow up article on the PRA in RBR that is good for an (unintentional) laugh and a few insightful observations from the editor.

I particularly enjoyed this point, AC:

"Ironically, if PRA is enacted, it will make it even harder for the up-and-coming to break through. Stations, paying to play each and every song, will not want to spend money on an experiment from some unknown – they’re going to stick with the tried and true.

PRA will simply chase new talent to new platforms on the internet. It will be just one more item on the long list of self-inflicted wounds the recording industry is compiling."

If you think the current KTWV playlist is bad now (and many of us do), imagine that playlist under the influence of the PRA. The music industry just doesn't get it--and I might add, neither do the musicians who support this. When all is said and done their take from this royalty bounty is only about a half cent per song, per airing. Very shortsighted.

http://www.rbr.com/radio/20862.html

http://www.rbr.com/radio/20861.html

c5

GREAT quote, c5. Spot on. Thanks so much for posting these. While I am grateful that terrestrial radio has given a guy like me a tremendous opportunity to share my passion with everyone by turning their backs on this format, I realize it could all end in a New York minute if PRA becomes a reality, particularly with the size of my playlist. "Experimentation" is the most enjoyable aspect of programming, especially when listeners react well to the experiment. In the end, this will do nothing but to stunt creativity in the studio and on the air. "Safe" cuts will rule the day. Sound familiar?

 

[cklw800]

Point on about the PRA and its affect on the artists and music. I saw the Dave Koz article in Radio World. Very interesting support of it. He's on the air and an artist so he gets the best of both worlds, in a way, no matter how this comes out. I think that's why his discussion of it is---well---so smooth!

 

[AC Tones]

Looking to add a funky syndicated show for the weekend. I'll keep you posted.

Hey Chris, speaking of funky weekend shows!!

On the very rare occasion I break away from "The.wav", I happened to recently check out The Bay Smooth Jazz Mix Show,
Featuring Donald Grammar (Sun: 8pmET, Fri: 10pmET, Sat: 8pmET)...

Bay Smooth Jazz Website

Bay Smooth Jazz - Click to Listen w/Windows Media Player

Wasn't expecting much, but this guy does one hell of a job mixing smooth jazz songs!! Go figure!!

Not sure they'd be willing to syndicate to other internet streamers, but the program is worth a listen!

DD

DD, Bay Smooth Jazz is one of the highest grossing outlets as far as listenership for Internet Smooth Jazz radio stations worldwide, and for good reason. They are one of the "big boys," as I refer to them (1.FM). They have the infrastructure, backing, and name recognition, but refreshingly, it is also a very good listen, as you noted. As I type, I am hearing 3D's "Riff To The Smooth" play, which I know is one of your favorite cuts. Pretty confident I WON'T be able to pick up their show, but I'll make a deal with you, brother. I'll start listening regularly to borrow enough of their "tricks" to produce my own funky program on the weekend, deal? ;D

 

[AC Tones]

Point on about the PRA and its affect on the artists and music. I saw the Dave Koz article in Radio World. Very interesting support of it. He's on the air and an artist so he gets the best of both worlds, in a way, no matter how this comes out. I think that's why his discussion of it is---well---so smooth!

You're right, brother! I love what Dave has done for this genre over the years, and by all accounts, he is a genuinely good guy. But perhaps he needs to recuse himself from this one.

 

[Double D]

Looking to add a funky syndicated show for the weekend. I'll keep you posted.

Hey Chris, speaking of funky weekend shows!!

On the very rare occasion I break away from "The.wav", I happened to recently check out The Bay Smooth Jazz Mix Show,
Featuring Donald Grammar (Sun: 8pmET, Fri: 10pmET, Sat: 8pmET)...

Bay Smooth Jazz Website

Bay Smooth Jazz - Click to Listen w/Windows Media Player

Wasn't expecting much, but this guy does one hell of a job mixing smooth jazz songs!! Go figure!!

Not sure they'd be willing to syndicate to other internet streamers, but the program is worth a listen!

DD

DD, Bay Smooth Jazz is one of the highest grossing outlets as far as listenership for Internet Smooth Jazz radio stations worldwide, and for good reason. They are one of the "big boys," as I refer to them (1.FM). They have the infrastructure, backing, and name recognition, but refreshingly, it is also a very good listen, as you noted. As I type, I am hearing 3D's "Riff To The Smooth" play, which I know is one of your favorite cuts. Pretty confident I WON'T be able to pick up their show, but I'll make a deal with you, brother. I'll start listening regularly to borrow enough of their "tricks" to produce my own funky program on the weekend, deal? ;D

Sounds great Chris!!

Another outstanding Saturday Night mix program, and a former mainstay down here at 106.3 The Sea Breeze, was...

Rafe Gomez - The Groove Boutique™

Rafe has also posted here in the past...

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=109635.0

I have a feeling he'd be very receptive to receiving airtime on "The.Wav"!!

DD