"The Rest of The story"

[hornet61]

Alley-Oop OOp OOp great story:

Gary Paxton of Skip and Flip Fame (w/Clyde Battin) wanted to record a song Alley-Oop, written by songwriter Dallas Frazier ("Elvira", "There Goes My Everything", and "Tell It Like It Is") , he did not want to record It under his current label Brent Records........he was hanging out at a chevron station in Hollywood at the corner of Sunset and Argyle (or Hollywood and Argyle,there are conflicting stories), with producer Kim Foley, they decided to come up with a ficticious group due to his contract with Brent, they released the record on the Lute Label, , the record started in LA and went straight to #1. By a group that didn't exsist..The Hollywood Argyles. Due to the success of the record, Paxton recruited LA musicians for a touring Hollywood Argyles, among them was Marshall Leib of the Teddy Bears, It's not certain that Leib was on the recording ???

Epilogue: Paxton went on to startup his own label GARPAX Records and his first release was "Monster Mash"with Bobby "Boris" Pickett.........It shot straight to the TOP. Monster Mash was once called "the worst song ever recorded" by none other that..............The King Elvis Presley

 

[landtuna]

Monster Mash was once called "the worst song ever recorded" by none other that..............The King Elvis Presley

There are many of us who don't consider Presley any sort of "king".

 

[hornet61]

I respect your opinion, not everyone is Elvis crazy.....In my humble opinion there will never be another Elvis, Sinatra, or The Beatles...These artists brought an unparalleled popularity, charisma, hysteria, attention, they just overwhelmed the competition and became the standard to which the rest of the artists were forever measured against.

You may not agree with me about Elvis being King of Rock N' Roll....are you with me That Little Richard Is the Queen of Rock N' Roll.

 

[landtuna]

I respect your opinion, not everyone is Elvis crazy.....In my humble opinion there will never be another Elvis, Sinatra, or The Beatles...These artists brought an unparalleled popularity, charisma, hysteria, attention, they just overwhelmed the competition and became the standard to which the rest of the artists were forever measured against.

You may not agree with me about Elvis being King of Rock N' Roll....are you with me That Little Richard Is the Queen of Rock N' Roll.

If Elvis accomplished anything it was making "race music" acceptable to White broadcasters and the general public. However, he also alienated a great many parents of the 50's who otherwise might have been more accepting of early Rock 'n Roll. He was the most visible RnR singer of the mid-50's but those of us who listened to pop radio and bought records also had many other favorites.

Elvis was a darling of the fan magazines and quickly became, second maybe only to Sinatra, a living legend with the female set and set the stage for idol worship in popular music. He also branched out into B movies where he proved he wasn't much of an actor but could sell tickets to the ladies.

Elvis tanked his career early with his poor selection of ballads and other soapy offerings (religious, Christmas, etc.) music that was totally outside the pop music scene. By the middle of the 60's Elvis was irrelevant and doing Vegas stage shows as an overweight caricature of himself. The "King" had become a cartoon.

Sinatra, IMHO, was a better actor than singer. But was also guilty of shooting his music in the foot with his outrageous off-stage behavior and continuous flirting with mob associates. His 'styling' of Standards showed lack of originality and his voice was nowhere near that of a whole host of other singers of his day (Cornell, Como, Martin etc.). Sinatra made a significant improvement in his popularity as a member of the Rat Pack but was almost unheard of after their breakup.

I agree there will never be another Elvis or Frank. The society that allowed those personalities to become popular doesn't exist any longer. As for Little Richard.....he was one of the more "exotic" characters of early RnR. I'll pass on the "queen" vote. ;D

 

[Silkie]

I respect your opinion, not everyone is Elvis crazy.....In my humble opinion there will never be another Elvis, Sinatra, or The Beatles...These artists brought an unparalleled popularity, charisma, hysteria, attention, they just overwhelmed the competition and became the standard to which the rest of the artists were forever measured against.

You may not agree with me about Elvis being King of Rock N' Roll....are you with me That Little Richard Is the Queen of Rock N' Roll.

I thought Elton John was the queen of rock and roll. I don't believe that prior to the time Queen Elizabeth knighted him he should be called Sir either. But that is me. Little Richard is, however, the prettiest man in show bidness.

 

[hornet61]

I respect your opinion, not everyone is Elvis crazy.....In my humble opinion there will never be another Elvis, Sinatra, or The Beatles...These artists brought an unparalleled popularity, charisma, hysteria, attention, they just overwhelmed the competition and became the standard to which the rest of the artists were forever measured against.

You may not agree with me about Elvis being King of Rock N' Roll....are you with me That Little Richard Is the Queen of Rock N' Roll.

If Elvis accomplished anything it was making "race music" acceptable to White broadcasters and the general public. However, he also alienated a great many parents of the 50's who otherwise might have been more accepting of early Rock 'n Roll. He was the most visible RnR singer of the mid-50's but those of us who listened to pop radio and bought records also had many other favorites.

Elvis was a darling of the fan magazines and quickly became, second maybe only to Sinatra, a living legend with the female set and set the stage for idol worship in popular music. He also branched out into B movies where he proved he wasn't much of an actor but could sell tickets to the ladies.

Elvis tanked his career early with his poor selection of ballads and other soapy offerings (religious, Christmas, etc.) music that was totally outside the pop music scene. By the middle of the 60's Elvis was irrelevant and doing Vegas stage shows as an overweight caricature of himself. The "King" had become a cartoon.

Sinatra, IMHO, was a better actor than singer. But was also guilty of shooting his music in the foot with his outrageous off-stage behavior and continuous flirting with mob associates. His 'styling' of Standards showed lack of originality and his voice was nowhere near that of a whole host of other singers of his day (Cornell, Como, Martin etc.). Sinatra made a significant improvement in his popularity as a member of the Rat Pack but was almost unheard of after their breakup.

I agree there will never be another Elvis or Frank. The society that allowed those personalities to become popular doesn't exist any longer. As for Little Richard.....he was one of the more "exotic" characters of early RnR. I'll pass on the "queen" vote. ;D

Wow....that was nicely done, It is certainly is a different view and some very good points to my more starcrazed views, I am really still a teenager when I think them, I have never outgrown that sense of awe, my friends kid me all the time about that. I certainly view Elvis much different than you, but that's what makes the world go round. His movies certainly were b-movies ,but made tons of money, again due to his popularity, which we also view differently, but I do agree with you on the quality of his movies, pretty pathetic, and It didin't allow him to grow as an actor, or maybe, he just couldn't act.. Given the social climate of 1956, I believe he won over more fans than he lost, they certainly were'nt gonna elevate Chuck Berry to that level as Elvis. Maybe Sam Cooke he was almost as pretty as Elvis. Oops my wife just read what I was writing and she reminded me again "You need Therapy", sho does that to me all the time.

Sinatra there was a magic about him that both men and women loved, there are some celebrities that have that magnetism. Yes, you are right about his voice, certainly not as good as Don Cornell, but, Sinatra was the only artist to be a superstar with three voices, distinct voices, over three generations. His 30's/40's voice with Dorsey and the Pied Pipers is as sweet as a strawberry shake from 31 flavors...... his 50's voice was as sexy and sophisticated as his beautiful wife Ava Gardner, and who would have thunk that at 65 with an old man voice, would score several #1's and build a million dollar label, around his singing, Reprise Records. And like you said he had somewhat of a Roller Coaster career. you and Silkie both disagree with me on the Little Richard title, so i'll let go at that. Thanks LT for the great response, kind of a ying to my yang.

PS: after my first love, music, I collect Gangster Movies ( my fav of all time Godfather and GFII)...so maybe that is another attraction about Sinatra.

 

[GridLeakBias]

I respect your opinion, not everyone is Elvis crazy.....In my humble opinion there will never be another Elvis, Sinatra, or The Beatles...These artists brought an unparalleled popularity, charisma, hysteria, attention, they just overwhelmed the competition and became the standard to which the rest of the artists were forever measured against.

You may not agree with me about Elvis being King of Rock N' Roll....are you with me That Little Richard Is the Queen of Rock N' Roll.

I thought Elton John was the queen of rock and roll. I don't believe that prior to the time Queen Elizabeth knighted him he should be called Sir either. But that is me. Little Richard is, however, the prettiest man in show bidness.

Elton may be a queen, if you will, but he'll never match up to Little Richard, the ORIGINAL QUEEN of rock.

 

[radioman148]

Regarding "Alley Oop" by the Hollywood Argyles that was the first record that WLS ever played.

 

[GridLeakBias]

If Elvis accomplished anything it was making "race music" acceptable to White broadcasters and the general public. However, he also alienated a great many parents of the 50's who otherwise might have been more accepting of early Rock 'n Roll. He was the most visible RnR singer of the mid-50's but those of us who listened to pop radio and bought records also had many other favorites.

Some excellent points here.

Elvis was a darling of the fan magazines and quickly became, second maybe only to Sinatra, a living legend with the female set and set the stage for idol worship in popular music. He also branched out into B movies where he proved he wasn't much of an actor but could sell tickets to the ladies.

In my opinion, Elvis suffered from the same problem many early rockers endured, i.e., they were young and impressionable, and they were guided by ruthless managers who stole credits and elected to push their performers into deals where the dollar was the ultimate outcome. Col. Tom Parker took advantage of Elvis in guiding him into the rash of B-movies with their less than memorable music themes. By the time Elvis woke to reality he was already addicted to fame and the drugs which he needed in order to meet the rigorous schedule of filming, studio recording and travel.

Elvis tanked his career early with his poor selection of ballads and other soapy offerings (religious, Christmas, etc.) music that was totally outside the pop music scene. By the middle of the 60's Elvis was irrelevant and doing Vegas stage shows as an overweight caricature of himself. The "King" had become a cartoon.

Once again, I believe that Col. Parker was to blame for Elvis’ rapid descent into obscurity. But by this time, Elvis had to have multiple drugs to get him up for a performance and then more drugs to bring him down from the high, and the combination of the two were the beginning of the end.

Sinatra, IMHO, was a better actor than singer. But was also guilty of shooting his music in the foot with his outrageous off-stage behavior and continuous flirting with mob associates. His 'styling' of Standards showed lack of originality and his voice was nowhere near that of a whole host of other singers of his day (Cornell, Como, Martin etc.). Sinatra made a significant improvement in his popularity as a member of the Rat Pack but was almost unheard of after their breakup.

Sinatra’s voice was ideal for a pop singer (crooner if you will), and his early recordings with big bands were top notch. Sinatra was also a natural as an actor. Sinatra’s difficulties lay with his inability to handle fame and fortune – he became so full of himself he was insufferable as a person, especially after he became involved with the gangster crowd. I believe that the majority of his later recordings and especially his Las Vegas stage productions were over produced and detracted from his outstanding vocal abilities. I don't own any of Sinatra's recordings and never will, but as a vocalist, I would rate his quality as supreme.

 

[Mad Mac]

Have you seen Spector lately? Very sad.

First thing that I thought on seeing the wigless prison pic was "secret love child of C. Montgomery Burns" ;D

 

[Silkie]

I respect your opinion, not everyone is Elvis crazy.....In my humble opinion there will never be another Elvis, Sinatra, or The Beatles...These artists brought an unparalleled popularity, charisma, hysteria, attention, they just overwhelmed the competition and became the standard to which the rest of the artists were forever measured against.

You may not agree with me about Elvis being King of Rock N' Roll....are you with me That Little Richard Is the Queen of Rock N' Roll.

I thought Elton John was the queen of rock and roll. I don't believe that prior to the time Queen Elizabeth knighted him he should be called Sir either. But that is me. Little Richard is, however, the prettiest man in show bidness.

Elton may be a queen, if you will, but he'll never match up to Little Richard, the ORIGINAL QUEEN of rock.

In my rock and roll mind I still keep Long Tall Glasses (ham, turkey, caviar - Leo Sayer) together with Apples, Peaches, Pumpkin Pie (Jay & The Techniques), "mashed potatoes and gravyyyyyyy and cranberry sauce", speaking of Little Richard. He still swears by Pancake 31, I hear tell.

 

[landtuna]

Sinatra’s voice was ideal for a pop singer (crooner if you will), and his early recordings with big bands were top notch.

Obviously, a bunch of people feel as you do, however, if you listen to the majority of Sinatra's big band recordings the "background" music frequently overshadows his vocals. There must have been a reason for that.

 

[Silkie]

Sinatra’s voice was ideal for a pop singer (crooner if you will), and his early recordings with big bands were top notch.

Obviously, a bunch of people feel as you do, however, if you listen to the majority of Sinatra's big band recordings the "background" music frequently overshadows his vocals. There must have been a reason for that.

That's why "The Lady Is A Tramp"

 

[radioman148]

Sinatra’s voice was ideal for a pop singer (crooner if you will), and his early recordings with big bands were top notch.

Obviously, a bunch of people feel as you do, however, if you listen to the majority of Sinatra's big band recordings the "background" music frequently overshadows his vocals. There must have been a reason for that.

That's why "The Lady Is A Tramp"

It must be "Witchcraft"

 

[hornet61]

One Final Story.......will the real Drifters please standup..

There have been many singers who have been Drifters over the course of 1953 to the late 60's , which accounts for so many different Drifter groups touring during the 70's - 90's. The original Drifters 53-59(All diseased) founded by Clyde Mcphatter and Bill Pinkney back in 1953 had great success with various Leads even after McPhatter left the group. Shortly after leaving, Mcphatter sold his interest in the group to manager Treadwell,which gained him 100% ownership of the name.
To add to the confusion in 1959, George Treadwell fired the entire group and replaced them with the Five Crowns lead by Bejamin Earl Nelson (Ben E. King), their first hit recording as the Drifters was "There Goes My Baby" (debuted 6/1/1959).
Over the years the lead vocals were handled primarily by Clyde McPhatter, Ben E King, Rudy Lewis, Johnny Moore(sang with both Drifters). Some of the other major players were Thrasher brothers( Andrew and Gerhart ) Bobby Hendricks (Ichy Twitchy Feelin'), Charlie Thomas, Doc Green, Elsberry Hobbs, Tommy Evans, along with about 25 or more various Individuals...Charlie Thomas tours today with a Drifters group (pending litigation over name), as does another group managed by the Treadwell estate,featuring Bobby Hendricks. The Coasters also had many touring groups due to similar revolving door personnel like the Drifters.

 

[deltas69]

for the truly trivial concerning a previous post in this thread..The Man From U.N.C.L.E. battled T.H.R.U.S.H...it was Bond...James Bond that fought the evil SPECTRE....but i never could understand who the bad guys were in star trek..the klingons..or the romulins..

 

[hornet61]

SPECTRE...........aka Dr Evil -Austin Powers. My wife went to High school with producer/director Jay Roach "Austin Powers" and "Meet the Parents"...real nice, down to earth, guy.

 

[radioman148]

One Final Story.......will the real Drifters please standup..

There have been many singers who have been Drifters over the course of 1953 to the late 60's , which accounts for so many different Drifter groups touring during the 70's - 90's. The original Drifters 53-59(All diseased) founded by Clyde Mcphatter and Bill Pinkney back in 1953 had great success with various Leads even after McPhatter left the group. Shortly after leaving, Mcphatter sold his interest in the group to manager Treadwell,which gained him 100% ownership of the name.
To add to the confusion in 1959, George Treadwell fired the entire group and replaced them with the Five Crowns lead by Bejamin Earl Nelson (Ben E. King), their first hit recording as the Drifters was "There Goes My Baby" (debuted 6/1/1959).
Over the years the lead vocals were handled primarily by Clyde McPhatter, Ben E King, Rudy Lewis, Johnny Moore(sang with both Drifters). Some of the other major players were Thrasher brothers( Andrew and Gerhart ) Bobby Hendricks (Ichy Twitchy Feelin'), Charlie Thomas, Doc Green, Elsberry Hobbs, Tommy Evans, along with about 25 or more various Individuals...Charlie Thomas tours today with a Drifters group (pending litigation over name), as does another group managed by the Treadwell estate,featuring Bobby Hendricks. The Coasters also had many touring groups due to similar revolving door personnel like the Drifters.

My wife wanted to see the Drifters on her birthday in the early 80s. I tried my best to talk her out of it by telling her there was nobody left in the group that you'll recognize. I tried & I tried, but she insisted on going.
We still joke to this day about how terrible they were that night.

Hornet--do you know who sang lead on "Up On the Roof" and "On Broadway" my two favorite Drifters songs?

 

[GridLeakBias]

.. if you listen to the majority of Sinatra's big band recordings the "background" music frequently overshadows his vocals. There must have been a reason for that.

The Big Band sound featured entire orchestras which were famous in their own right and the vocalists were merely an adjunct addition to the musical presentation.

I believe over production came after vocalists such as Sinatra got their high paying gigs in the showrooms of Las Vegas, where dazzling lights and sound and excitement became the norm. With all the stage production involved, the quality of the vocals was lost, and indeed could be masked, as in the case of Elvis.

 

[landtuna]

The Big Band sound featured entire orchestras which were famous in their own right and the vocalists were merely an adjunct addition to the musical presentation.

I believe over production came after vocalists such as Sinatra got their high paying gigs in the showrooms of Las Vegas, where dazzling lights and sound and excitement became the norm. With all the stage production involved, the quality of the vocals was lost, and indeed could be masked, as in the case of Elvis.

What I was referring to by "background" occurred when Sinatra was singing with the big bands and later when he had backup orchestra's. I rarely remember him singing A Capella and he usually seemed to have rather loud accompaniment. Compare that with Elvis who, in most recordings, sung above the music background. Concerts were a bit different.

I'm not saying either was not a great entertainer but rather that Sinatra, especially, wasn't that great a singer and Elvis, although a great singer, cratered his career too early with his choice of material.

Also, after having lived on the East Coast for 8 years, I noticed Sinatra was infinitely more popular there (NY/Jersey area) than he was out West (with the obvious exception of Las Vegas).