The sad state of Active Rock as a format

[TheBigA]

And it's competing with Pandora etc. by minimalizing or eliminating the DJs.

That assumes the attraction for radio is the DJs. In the formats where DJs are important, they aren't being eliminated or minimalized.

I don't see OTA radio as catering to niches. In fact, most of the niches have already been dropped, including jazz, classical, smooth jazz, and various subformats of rock. Right now, the main music formats are: AC, country, urban, CHR, oldies, and, to some degree, rock. The local stations vary the mixes of those formats based on competition. But that's what's mainly left.

 

[CTListener]

And it's competing with Pandora etc. by minimalizing or eliminating the DJs.

That assumes the attraction for radio is the DJs. In the formats where DJs are important, they aren't being eliminated or minimalized.

I don't see OTA radio as catering to niches. In fact, most of the niches have already been dropped, including jazz, classical, smooth jazz, and various subformats of rock. Right now, the main music formats are: AC, country, urban, CHR, oldies, and, to some degree, rock. The local stations vary the mixes of those formats based on competition. But that's what's mainly left.

Right. But by "niches" I'm not only talking about the genres you mention, but by the listeners who swear they'll never listen to OTA radio again because the playlists of their market's mainstream stations are tight and repetitive. OTA radio doesn't expand playlists because it's been shown to be a sure way to lose listeners, especially if there's a tight-playlist competitor in the market, but the "play everything, dammit" crowd doesn't believe that.

 

[TheBigA]

Right. But by "niches" I'm not only talking about the genres you mention, but by the listeners who swear they'll never listen to OTA radio again because the playlists of their market's mainstream stations are tight and repetitive.

Oh well. Anyone in radio will tell you that you'll never make everyone happy. There are lots of options for those who want deep cuts and large playlists. They can pay for them. But when advertisers foot the bill, you get what they want.

 

[faaradar]

Oh well. Anyone in radio will tell you that you'll never make everyone happy. There are lots of options for those who want deep cuts and large playlists. They can pay for them. But when advertisers foot the bill, you get what they want.

And that pretty much sums it up....well stated

 

[TheRover]

Most everything "free", ie OTA radio and TV, is being dumbed-down for the masses. There is no "cool" place on radio.....

Only "cool" contests, or "cool" giveaways, or "cool" on-air personalities.....

But "cool" music.... You can forget it. That's the least most important part of OTA commercial TV/Radio. The only people who think it's "cool" are not cool themselves.... The Great Unwashed Masses.

OTA radio is the "Public Transportation System" of Media.

So, if you dig riding public buses, so to speak.... then it's probably just the thing for you!

The ignorant masses listen to the radio for all the wrong reasons.

But to those that would build a station with soul, that is not all about the "DJ", then I say build it, and they will come. ;D

 

[CTListener]

Most everything "free", ie OTA radio and TV, is being dumbed-down for the masses. There is no "cool" place on radio.....

Only "cool" contests, or "cool" giveaways, or "cool" on-air personalities.....

But "cool" music.... You can forget it. That's the least most important part of OTA commercial TV/Radio. The only people who think it's "cool" are not cool themselves.... The Great Unwashed Masses.

OTA radio is the "Public Transportation System" of Media.

So, if you dig riding public buses, so to speak.... then it's probably just the thing for you!

The ignorant masses listen to the radio for all the wrong reasons.

But to those that would build a station with soul, that is not all about the "DJ", then I say build it, and they will come. ;D

Occupy Radio! ;D

 

[TheBigA]

Most everything "free", ie OTA radio and TV, is being dumbed-down for the masses. There is no "cool" place on radio.....

First of all, I feel that's a huge over-generalization. There ARE formats other than rock, you know.

Second of all, it ain't cool to be an elitist snob.

 

[TheRover]

Most everything "free", ie OTA radio and TV, is being dumbed-down for the masses. There is no "cool" place on radio.....

First of all, I feel that's a huge over-generalization. There ARE formats other than rock, you know.

Second of all, it ain't cool to be an elitist snob.

The Big A, I'm hardly an elitist.

My most favorite Rock bands and my taste in Rock Music is hardly elitist:

The Beatles
Led Zeppelin
Pink Floyd
Van Halen
Alice Cooper

What's not cool to me is rock radio only playing the same 5 or 6 songs by these major bands.

It's the Non-commercial stations that are elitist.

I want an OTA, middle ground, rock radio station, one that is not DJ centered and elitist, and does not focus mainly on the "Greatest Hits".

Take out the offense of the elitism, and the offense of the "Greatest Hits" focus, and, I, and many other well-rounded rock music lovers would certainly listen.

(BTY, directing me to an i-pod, or sat radio, does not gain nay ground with me...)

 

[TheBigA]

The Big A, I'm hardly an elitist.

Read your post. "Dumbed down for the masses" is elitism by definition.

Nothing wrong with the masses. They're why we do this. It's why they call it the mass media, you know.

 

[Jersey Maiden]

The Big A, I'm hardly an elitist.

Read your post. "Dumbed down for the masses" is elitism by definition.

Nothing wrong with the masses. They're why we do this. It's why they call it the mass media, you know.

You're never heard of hipster snobs? That's just as elitist, if not more, than things dumbed down for the masses.

 

[TheRover]

The Big A, I'm hardly an elitist.

Read your post. "Dumbed down for the masses" is elitism by definition.

Nothing wrong with the masses. They're why we do this. It's why they call it the mass media, you know.

You're never heard of hipster snobs? That's just as elitist, if not more, than things dumbed down for the masses.

Back in the day, when FM came on the scene, and played some thing other than AM Top 40 Hits, I liked that. And will always remember that. If I'm a snob for liking that, then so be it.

There used to be place on the radio dial for other than Top 40 hits.

 

[TheBigA]

There used to be place on the radio dial for other than Top 40 hits.

There "used to be" a lot of things. At some point, you have to live in the present.

 

[Neanderpaul]

The consumer dictates the product.

Think of radio as a jukebox in a bar.

People pay $$$ to hear the same 500 songs when they're playing pool/socializing etc. Some, way more often than others. And in some cases, if the consumer chooses to pay more, they get their song first.

More often than not, that song is one of the hits.

Argue it until you're blue in the face. But the *real* reason is Arbitron.

Especially in the PPM world. In the major markets, you're no longer programming to the listener. You're programming to the meter. I won't go in to the entire philosophy. You'll have to trust that this is the way it works now.

Because the smaller markets don't have the resources available, they tend to mimic what the bigger stations do.

And so...in order to be successful, you have to do what the successful stations do to get ratings. And the system we have in place, that we as an industry signed off on, has destroyed adventurous programming, and choked out the unfamiliar.

Arbitron has shown us "real data" vs. recall that "proves" this concept.

Don't blame radio. Or, the corporations.

It's Arbitron's fault.

Sales uses numbers that aren't even reliable (read the bottom of your ratings sheets for the disclaimer). Buyers base their campaigns on inaccurate data. And we allow it. We pay millions to Arbitron for blatantly stated guesses.

Until we as an industry find a way to monetize without using a seriously flawed system, we will be in this position.

Programming will always cater to sales. Understanding this is the first step toward working the system to your advantage.

 

[TheBigA]

Until we as an industry find a way to monetize without using a seriously flawed system, we will be in this position.

Programming will always cater to sales. Understanding this is the first step toward working the system to your advantage.

Well keep in mind that the only reason Arbitron matters is because advertisers wanted an unbiased system that told them what the actual numbers are. The cost of getting those numbers prevents other competitors from getting into the business. And we're all still arguing about sample size. Meanwhile, I have Google Analytics that tells me exact numbers of who accesses my web content, how they found out about it, and where they go after they see it. It would be nice to have something like that for radio.

 

[Neanderpaul]

"PPM ratings are based on audience estimates and are the opinion of Arbitron and should not be relied on for precise accuracy or precise representativeness of a demographic or radio market." - Arbitron

Hmmmm "actual numbers?" And can it be unbiased if there's weighted measurement?

Even Arbitron takes no responsibility for their service. And yet, careers are destroyed & millions wagered every day.

Not to mention people debating on message boards over the state of the industry.

 

[Jersey Maiden]

The Big A, I'm hardly an elitist.

Read your post. "Dumbed down for the masses" is elitism by definition.

Nothing wrong with the masses. They're why we do this. It's why they call it the mass media, you know.

You're never heard of hipster snobs? That's just as elitist, if not more, than things dumbed down for the masses.

Back in the day, when FM came on the scene, and played some thing other than AM Top 40 Hits, I liked that. And will always remember that. If I'm a snob for liking that, then so be it.

There used to be place on the radio dial for other than Top 40 hits.

To some extent, I am an elitist too. I have 2 college radio stations in my car presets. And one time, when I was in my former roommate's car on a trip to the beach, I found it hard to believe she could actually tolerate Pitbull's "Give Me Everything" being played twice during that day. Her presets include Top 40 (when I lived with her, that was all she listened to on her computer), lite and dance stations, so her tastes are not too adventurous. I never said anything to her about it but I feel like my tastes are better. At the same time, since my presets also have top 40, I'm sure the very hardcore elitists wouldn't consider me to be a real hipster. When 92.3 flipped from K-Rock to top 40, I was upset but I didn't hate it enough to actually take it out. So evidently, I sometimes find songs I like on those mainstream stations. And 99% of the time, I don't know the artists playing on college stations, nor do I make much effort to find out. If WRXP comes back tomorrow, I would gladly replace WRSU in my car (partly because its signal blows). So while I crave music outside of those safe formats, I do need some degree of familiarity. But more importantly, the idea that something is automatically bad just because it's mainstream isn't a great attitude to have either. That's why I strongly disagree with Big that dumbing down for the masses is elitism by definition. There's all different kinds out there.

 

[TheBigA]

That's why I strongly disagree with Big that dumbing down for the masses is elitism by definition. There's all different kinds out there.

To clarify, what I was saying was to decribe today's radio as "dumbed down for the masses" is elitist. The process of doing it isn't. It's good business.

 

[XCountry285]

I think they should have a hybrid of AAA, Rock, & Alternative (NOT like WRXP in New York, that was horrible!) Make it so that all those are heard but a slight lean on the AAA artists, they might do well. I know a good rock station is WDHA-FM.

 

[radioboy]

Here's an article by Christine Pawlak that you might find interesting:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/...unwarranted_decline_of_fm_rock_stations_.html